filing property tax grievance

[rh71]

anyone know how to do this without paying some attorneys half of what you get back? I heard it's easy to do this yourself but I haven't been able to find any step-by-step. We're in NY.

 

[meltdown75]

what exactly are you grieving? i'm just curious because i work in the business. tell me the story

 

[rh71]

what exactly are you grieving? i'm just curious because i work in the business. tell me the story

it's for my mom - her property/school taxes are now 14k, an increase of 2-3k from just a year ago without doing anything to the house. We would like to challenge it. From what I read, the town/county banks on people not going too far to challenge this. Also, when my wife and I went to look at new houses the realtor also suggested we grieve every year.

 

[sdifox]

it's for my mom - her property/school taxes are now 14k, an increase of 2-3k from just a year ago without doing anything to the house. We would like to challenge it. From what I read, the town/county banks on people not going too far to challenge this. Also, when my wife and I went to look at new houses the realtor also suggested we grieve every year.

I imagine the property is assessed at x value and the county applies y percent mill rate to arrive at the property tax?

If that is the case, it is the assessment you want to fight.

 

[SunnyD]

it's for my mom - her property/school taxes are now 14k, an increase of 2-3k from just a year ago without doing anything to the house. We would like to challenge it. From what I read, the town/county banks on people not going too far to challenge this. Also, when my wife and I went to look at new houses the realtor also suggested we grieve every year.

You should grieve every year. Grieve about the money that's no long in your bank account after you pay your bill.

Seriously - problem #1 - you're in NY. NYS budget cuts have gone deep, which leaves municipalities picking up the slack. Just look at Orlando FL. A few years ago, people bitched because taxes were going up so fast because property values were going up fast. Now, people are still bitching even though property values are going down, taxes are still going up because the county is losing revenue from the mass exodus of foreclosures.

 

[BoomerD]

Prop 13 FTW!

My taxes are only a bit higher than they were when we bought the house 11 years ago. Part of the increase was because we built a patio cover that increased the value of the house, (it's about 10 x 42) and part is the annual 1-2% increase and school bonds.
Still within about $200 of what it was in 99.

 

[kranky]

I would imagine your county has an appeal process. Check their website, it might be documented there.

For our county, you fill out a form we can get from the website and send it in. They schedule a hearing, then you go to the hearing and plead your case. First look for any material errors in the description of the property (number of rooms, square footage, type of construction, etc.) because that's the easiest thing to prove. Our website also lists the "comparable properties" they used, and if you feel those aren't fair comparisons you can argue that as well.

 

[boomerang]

If that is the case, it is the assessment you want to fight.

Approach it from that viewpoint. Here, I'd try to get comparable sales in the area from local Real Estate offices. I would also look into hiring an independent appraiser to come up with a true value. You have to present them evidence, not just say that you feel it's too high.

Here, it's done through the local government. The appointment is set up through the county, but the actual face to face is at the township offices. Here, if they adjust the value downward, it's for one year only then it will ratchet right back to where it was. In order to make it permanent, it has to be appealed to the state capitol. My understanding is that that process is done strictly by written correspondence.

Sorry I can't help you with your specific situation. I know there are a number of members here from New York. I'm sure one of them will know.

BTW, here all the information you need to start the process is right on the tax bill.

 

[Greenman]

it's for my mom - her property/school taxes are now 14k, an increase of 2-3k from just a year ago without doing anything to the house. We would like to challenge it. From what I read, the town/county banks on people not going too far to challenge this. Also, when my wife and I went to look at new houses the realtor also suggested we grieve every year.

That's absolutely fucking insane. Eleven hundred bucks a month in taxes? I assume your mom lives in million dollar plus home?

 

[meltdown75]

sounds like the system there is similar to that in Ontario.

good luck man. i deal with commercial / industrial now... most of my complaints get handled before they go to a formal appeal. with the larger values and everything on a larger scale, there's a lot more "room to wiggle" and things to look at / correct.

 

[rh71]

That's absolutely fucking insane. Eleven hundred bucks a month in taxes? I assume your mom lives in million dollar plus home?

no it is just a regular split-level worth $550k right now but it's one of the top towns on the island with top schools. At least she's done with her mortgage... but $1100/mo. itself is also half my monthly mortgage. When we move in the next few months (top schools/good town), we'll also be paying $10k annually... necessary evil... otherwise we'd just move to the middle of nowhere with no family or friends but live a lot more comfortably.

 

[boomerang]

Another thought. In Michigan there are property tax breaks available for those with limited income. You have to inform them, they don't poll you.

I don't know if this is applicable in your mom's case or even available in NY state.

 

[Vette73]

What city/county? Is this a city or county tax?

But usually the tax form says on the bottom how to appeal. Go to the site they give and see what they allow and what they do not.
Also did the tax go up because they raised the value of the hosue or raised the tax? If tax then you will probable not get anything. If its value then see what they alow in a appeal and ONLY appeal that.

 

[SearchMaster]

In our county it was pretty easy. We have a separate lot of land that really isn't worth much because it's barely buildable. It's lakefront but not really since you can't get a dock permit (lowering value by a lot). They had over assessed it one year, my wife went down and filled out an appeal form and they dropped the assessment by >50% without doing anything else.

If the assessment is fair market value then there's probably not much she can do about it, other than voting carefully for county officials.

 

[KLin]

no it is just a regular split-level worth $550k right now but it's one of the top towns on the island with top schools. At least she's done with her mortgage... but $1100/mo. itself is also half my monthly mortgage. When we move in the next few months (top schools/good town), we'll also be paying $10k annually... necessary evil... otherwise we'd just move to the middle of nowhere with no family or friends but live a lot more comfortably.

Property taxes are tax deductible I believe.

 

[DrPizza]

Property taxes are tax deductible I believe.

Yes.

Also, the process for appealing it is pretty easy. I thought it's right on the bottom of your county tax bill & tax assessment. I've been meaning to appeal mine for a couple of years, but then again, I don't want them scrutinizing my house. My assessed value went up about 10-15%; not much of a big deal. But somehow, I'm considered part of the "light district" of my little town. My survey shows my property as the first property NOT in the "light district" - that's like an extra $25 a year in taxes. Not enough of a big deal to whine about, but I *HATE* streetlights. That was one of the benefits of moving to where I did. And now there's a streetlight across the street in my neighbor's yard.

 

[meltdown75]

just convince them that there is some nuisance / detraction from the property value that they are unaware of. noises, smells, neighbours, location, lack of function, so unique that it would be a tough sell on the market... and back it up with sales and comps in the area. there are a lot of angles to approach it from. the honus is usually on the assessment body to defend the value. due to the fact that they work in mass appraisal, you are at an advantage, because they don't have the time to do an in-depth analysis of the property.

i'd stay away from independent appraisals. they cost $ and could go either way.

 

[spidey07]

Everybody should look into this and pay attention to your property tax. With counties/states hurting they seem to be squeezing money from property taxes, mainly by raising the property evaluation. Of course prices are going down, NOT up so the appraisal should also go down and less tax. "hey, they'll never notice or do anything about it!"

 

[rh71]

after some more digging I was able to find an online form by the county to start the appeal process. On the form they ask questions like did we build up or out in the last 3 years, and show comps (via parcel ID) to other properties that sold recently... and of course they ask for the assessment value we think it should be. Hopefully they'll take this and it won't require further appeal. One confusing thing though is the title is: File a New Appeal for Tax Year 2011/12. I read somewhere else that they go 2 years back (current assessment is based on your actual value then). So why would an appeal be submitted for a year in advance now? End goal is to pay minimal tax for this year.

 

[meltdown75]

Everybody should look into this and pay attention to your property tax. With counties/states hurting they seem to be squeezing money from property taxes, mainly by raising the property evaluation. Of course prices are going down, NOT up so the appraisal should also go down and less tax. "hey, they'll never notice or do anything about it!"

maybe in your area. here, we just want to get the values right. assessments dropping usually means the municipality will just raise the mill rates.

i am under the impression that the counties / assessment bodies in the US are one and the same. this is just plain wrong... then all it would take would be for the people in charge to say hey, assessor, crank up the values or you're fired.

at least in Ontario, it is done independently, without the influence of the municipalities.

 

[sdifox]

maybe in your area. here, we just want to get the values right. assessments dropping usually means the municipality will just raise the mill rates.

i am under the impression that the counties / assessment bodies in the US are one and the same. this is just plain wrong... then all it would take would be for the people in charge to say hey, assessor, crank up the values or you're fired.

at least in Ontario, it is done independently, without the influence of the municipalities.

except MPAC is an absolute mess.

 

[DrPizza]

after some more digging I was able to find an online form by the county to start the appeal process. On the form they ask questions like did we build up or out in the last 3 years, and show comps (via parcel ID) to other properties that sold recently... and of course they ask for the assessment value we think it should be. Hopefully they'll take this and it won't require further appeal. One confusing thing though is the title is: File a New Appeal for Tax Year 2011/12. I read somewhere else that they go 2 years back (current assessment is based on your actual value then). So why would an appeal be submitted for a year in advance now? End goal is to pay minimal tax for this year.

To the best of my knowledge, they do NOT go back. There is only a window of a couple of months each year when you can appeal that year's assessment. I think that is also explained on the bottom of the annual assessment you should receive.

 

[meltdown75]

except MPAC is an absolute mess.

thanks to the Harris government. Some services shouldn't have been downloaded and this is a perfect example. Any corporation operating on a barebones budget with a severe shortage of staff is going to be a "mess". Add in new legislation which phases in assessments over 4 years and you add to the mess. What they should have done is do the phase-ins at the property tax level, not the assessment level. Instead of 4 different values on an assessment notice, all they would have had to do was phase it in at the municipal level, ie. one assessment and 4 different payment amounts per year over 4 years. Add in that we are currently operating without a contract, and talk of a big reorganization, and then you get employees who are concerned about their job security. Not exactly the best set of circumstances when it comes to employee motivation.

 

[sdifox]

thanks to the Harris government. Some services shouldn't have been downloaded and this is a perfect example. Any corporation operating on a barebones budget with a severe shortage of staff is going to be a "mess". Add in new legislation which phases in assessments over 4 years and you add to the mess. What they should have done is do the phase-ins at the property tax level, not the assessment level. Instead of 4 different values on an assessment notice, all they would have had to do was phase it in at the municipal level, ie. one assessment and 4 different payment amounts per year over 4 years. Add in that we are currently operating without a contract, and talk of a big reorganization, and then you get employees who are concerned about their job security. Not exactly the best set of circumstances when it comes to employee motivation.

The worst part was the privatization. Same thing with Terradata. Fucking blow through millions then sell it off for a song.

 

[meltdown75]

except MPAC is an absolute mess.

and FWIW the complaints are less than 2% provincewide. over 4.5 million properties. mass appraisal is not an exact science. in fact we rely on the public to bring complaints forward because it helps us to achieve more accurate values. every property is unique - we don't have the time or staff to do an independent study on each one of them but are more than happy to do so, should someone come forward with a complaint.

for my part, for my areas and property types, i do a f*cking awesome job and i love my place of work.