File Server needed

[JSt0rm]

In our quest to store huge amounts of data is a sensible, cheap way we want to look into the possibility of running a windows box (I can build the box) with a bunch of macs using it as a file server.

Here are the requirements

1. hfs+ partitioned storage drives
2. 8 macs connected at once
3. Lots of room to expand the storage capability
4. gigabit ethernet
5. Cheap
6. Lots of raid 1
7 Needs to hold atleast 10 hardrives for 5 raid 1 arrays atleast.
8. Room to grow the harddrives

My ideas

A really nice c2d motherboard with a really cheap c2d cpu.
1024mb of ram cheapo is ok
sata raid onboard plus integrates sata raid with the chipset allowing 8 drives (i think)
good number of pci slots for more sata raid cards
beefy powersupply 600 watts???
el cheapo vid card

Thanks for your help

 

[jpeyton]

How much storage do you need (in GB or TB)?

 

[JSt0rm]

Probably make do with 750gb (1.5tb raid 1) to start then let it grow. We can already store about 2tb. This is just gonna stop the pressure on those drives and get some redundancy in our lives. Those drives reside in 4 different hotswap firewire bays and we use those for speed.

 

[bob4432]

i would move to a nice real hardware raid card (sas/sata) 8 port and run 3-4 750GB hdds in a raid 5 or 6 and then increase it as you need more space. this will start you off w/ at least 1.5TB of redundant storage probaly be pci-e 4x or 8x. acreca is a good brand to go w/ from what i have read (but not used - too rich for my blood atm)

you don't want to run this stuff off a pci slot (assuming it is graphics files which are large because 1-you are connect macs and 2-have GbE) because of its limitations. you want to go pci-e

don't use onboard raid for this data, but it would be ok for the raid1 of the os w/ the smaller drives.

since this would be the most important box on the network, i would take out cheap - i am not saying you can be $$$ responsible for this build, but don't get cheap, sh!t parts. hell, even look into some of the brisbane amd cpus - low price and more power than you would need.

i would go for moderate, stable but basic am2 board w/ pci-e 1x, 4x, 8x and 16x slots, onboard GbE is ok, brisbane cpu of your choice (dual core), a regular old pci gpu and then put the bulk of the $$ into a good psu and raid setup.

 

[Sunner]

Well, first off, if you want to run a Windows server, you'll be using NTFS on the storage drives, which won't matter if you're sharing them across the network, since the server will present them using CIFS/SMB.

But I would really(REALLY) look into getting a proper server for your usage if this server will be important to you.
10 drives is a lot, there are relatively few cases that will accommodate this, and cooling might turn out to be a problem.
Have you thought about looking into getting a cheap HP(or your preferred brand by all means) server with an external S-ATA enclosure?
They're not terribly expensive, I think HP's MSA-20 starts in the 2k range.
Hook it up to the server with a regular SCSI cable, and use the integrated RAID controller on the server for your raid array(go RAID-5 or ADG if anything, that'll save you LOTS of space).
Easy to set up, will work without compatibility/cooling problems, and warranty/support included.

 

[Madwand1]

Two issues to look at:

1. Backup. "RAID alone is not a backup", blah blah blah. How are you going to back up all those drives? Include something in the plans and budget for an external detached backup. Think about this one, and design accordingly.

2. OS. The choice of OS can make a big difference in your hardware setup. Windows? You might need to think about client licensing. This path could take you to OEM hardware with Windows Storage Server 2003.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2075359&enterthread=y

 

[JDMnAR1]

Define "cheap". For instance, you can pick up a refurbished Dell Powervault MD1000 loaded with 15x500GB SATA II 7200RPM drives for ~$4300 at the Dell outlet. Add in your entry level PowerEdge server with PERC 5/E card (running Linux if you want) and you would be good to go.

 

[JSt0rm]

First of all thanks to everyone for your replies.

Madwand1: I was hoping to get away with windows xp home or pro as the os. Right now there would be 7 computers on the network and it would be exactly 10 after our planned upgrades to the studio.

These are media files and there are off site external firewire backup drives. Our main goal is to keep the glyph firewire drives clean for performance reasons. Going Raid 1 seems like a good idea because it seemed like a cheap way to keep the data secure.

Bob4432 (or whomever): What am2 motherboard would you recommend that had all those pci-e slots and onboard gbe? We will also need to to be able to connect to firewire 400 atleast but there are firewire 800 drives hanging around as well. I know i would probably need another 800 card for those. I like the brisbane idea to try and keep the power supply focused on the drives.

Why is onboard raid crappy? I was planning on starting with this and then buying card for the future.

Sunner: i thought windows didnt have a problem with hfs+ partitioned drives as my external firewire drive in hfs+ and my home windows box has no problems working with this drive. On the other hand the macs all have issues it seems with fat16,32 and ntfs.

External sata controllers would be nice but again the price is pushing it. I need this thing to be very cost effective. I can purchase a large computer case a decent motherboard and one of those brisbane cpus and hopefully have it working well.

really cost matters. I need this project to come in closer to $500 for the core system minus the drives of course. again thanks everybody. This is why I come here first

 

[Knavish]

1. If it was me, I would run a linux server for this and let the macs NFS mount server shares.

2. I think you're a bit confused about the filesystem you need on the server. When you have a server, the files are exported over a network share like SMB of NFS. The actual file system used on the hard drive (hfs+, ext3, ntfs, etc...) is only seen by the server.

3. If people are expecting this to be a high-reliability server that will keep their files save and *YOUR* butt is on the line, you better be careful. If this is the case you you might do better buying a commercial system with tape backup. (When I was a grad student I did this & it worked well for my research group. We wanted a cheap solution, and so I used two 1TB+ RAID 5 servers. One was the file server and the other was a mirrored copy of the file server. We had to sustain 4 simultaneous HD failures to lose data. They were in different rooms to avoid any power spikes.)

4. Why RAID1??? I'd go for RAID5 or RAID6. I know a real RAID5 controller is expensive, but if you install 10 drives running RAID1, you'll only get equivalent space of 5 drives. If you install 6 drives running RAID5, you get the space of 5 drives. For example:

3Ware RAID 5 Card (8 ports) = $500
500GB HD x 6 = $150*6 = $900
total cost for 2.5TB of disk = $1400

-versus-

10x500GB HD = $150*10 = $1500
(assuming the motherboard has 10x SATA ports)
total cost for 2.5TB of raid1 = $1500

 

[JSt0rm]

Yuo bring up some good point knavish. Raid 5 does seem like the route to go but how hard would it be to migrate drives that are already raid 1 to raid 5? I'm thinnking about raid 5 as a future expansion.

 

[JDMnAR1]

Migrating from RAID 1 to RAID 5 is as easy as redefining your container once you have the drives in your system for the RAID 5 and restoring the data from your RAID 1 array onto your new RAID 5 array using the backup software of your choice. Seriously - it is far easier to grow a RAID 5 array than it is a RAID 1.

 

[RebateMonger]

Data migration to a new RAID array should be trivial. You just copy the files from your backups to your new RAID array.

If you don't HAVE offline backups, then your data likely isn't that important. I see people lose data on RAID arrays frequently.

 

[Knavish]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Yuo bring up some good point knavish. Raid 5 does seem like the route to go but how hard would it be to migrate drives that are already raid 1 to raid 5? I'm thinnking about raid 5 as a future expansion.

Like the other two guys said, you will need to format drives when you put them in the RAID5 system. You can't just plug a RAID1 drive into an existing RAID5 and have it's files automatically appear on the RAID5 drive.

Another thing worth considering... Maybe someone else can clarify if this is right or not...
If you start with an 8 port RAID card with 4 drives, I don't think you can just add an empty drive to the array. When you add the 5th drive, you'd have to reformat the entire array to include it's extra space.

You could, however, have 4 drives running on the RAID5 as one drive and then add another 4 drives and run them as a separate drive. For example:
--Start with 4x500GB and get 1.5TB of Raid5
--Later add 4x1000GB and get an additional 3TB of Raid 5 (separate from the 1st 1.5TB).

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Knavish

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Yuo bring up some good point knavish. Raid 5 does seem like the route to go but how hard would it be to migrate drives that are already raid 1 to raid 5? I'm thinnking about raid 5 as a future expansion.

Like the other two guys said, you will need to format drives when you put them in the RAID5 system. You can't just plug a RAID1 drive into an existing RAID5 and have it's files automatically appear on the RAID5 drive.

Another thing worth considering... Maybe someone else can clarify if this is right or not...
If you start with an 8 port RAID card with 4 drives, I don't think you can just add an empty drive to the array. When you add the 5th drive, you'd have to reformat the entire array to include it's extra space.

You could, however, have 4 drives running on the RAID5 as one drive and then add another 4 drives and run them as a separate drive. For example:
--Start with 4x500GB and get 1.5TB of Raid5
--Later add 4x1000GB and get an additional 3TB of Raid 5 (separate from the 1st 1.5TB).

That'll depend on the controller.
Any mid to high end controller will support this, unfortunately they might be out of the OP's price range, I'm unsure about 3Ware and such.

To the OP, just make sure you won't get any crap if this thing breaks down.
If your ass is in any way on the line here, simply tell whoever is paying that it won't get that cheap, building things yourself, funny as it may be, can become nightmares in a hurry with some bad luck.
If it's more of a hobbyist project or some such, by all means