Getting a used m/b to build my first box.I've read the fic 503+ can be problematic with agp vid cards.Any advice would be appreciated on what card to use,or should I just stick with pci vid cards?Thanks.
Fic 503+ m/b-need some agp advice
- Thread starter 4thman
- Start date
i have this board. It's working great for me. I'm using it as my internet server.
450 K6-III with 128 MB ram. Using the savage2000 video card.
Even though they say that it should not have a AGP board with more then 16Mb of memory, I ran mine with a 32Mb TnT2 card with no troubles.
Man, are you sure you can't find something a little newer to use as your first system build? Well, one thing is for sure, this will be a learning experience for ya! Lot's of jumpers...lots of infuriating little jumpers.
I've used about two dozen VA-503+, PA-2013, and PA-2007 back when they were all the rage. A few of the VA-503+ systems kept coming back for upgrades every so often and I used a 503+ in my own system for about a year. I never had much luck getting any decent video cards to work in AGP 2x, including the:
ATI Rage 128 16MB AGP
TNT2 16MB AGP
TNT2 M64 32MB AGP
They all worked fine in 1x AGP but 3D acceleration and OpenGL problems seemed to always crop-up after enabling 2x AGP, even after fiddling with the three BIOS settings known to affect 3D cards (cache write pipeline, read around write, and whatever the other thing was). So effectively I was forcing them to run in PCI mode (1x AGP), anyway.
This board is kinda picky about everything; AGP cards, SDRAM modules, PCI latency issues affecting audio, jumpers, startup and shutdown, and other things. Don't say I didn't warn you!
I've used about two dozen VA-503+, PA-2013, and PA-2007 back when they were all the rage. A few of the VA-503+ systems kept coming back for upgrades every so often and I used a 503+ in my own system for about a year. I never had much luck getting any decent video cards to work in AGP 2x, including the:
ATI Rage 128 16MB AGP
TNT2 16MB AGP
TNT2 M64 32MB AGP
They all worked fine in 1x AGP but 3D acceleration and OpenGL problems seemed to always crop-up after enabling 2x AGP, even after fiddling with the three BIOS settings known to affect 3D cards (cache write pipeline, read around write, and whatever the other thing was). So effectively I was forcing them to run in PCI mode (1x AGP), anyway.
This board is kinda picky about everything; AGP cards, SDRAM modules, PCI latency issues affecting audio, jumpers, startup and shutdown, and other things. Don't say I didn't warn you!
i got a box running this set up:
K6II 550, 2x128 PC100, IBM 30G 70GXP, Creative TNT2 Ultra, with WinXP Pro. The box is running flawlessly, not a problem what so ever. Only problem I had was the cooling issue of the HDD, but got that taken care of with a cooler.
It has the latest driver for the Mobo and Video card(well the last release of it anyway).
K6II 550, 2x128 PC100, IBM 30G 70GXP, Creative TNT2 Ultra, with WinXP Pro. The box is running flawlessly, not a problem what so ever. Only problem I had was the cooling issue of the HDD, but got that taken care of with a cooler.
It has the latest driver for the Mobo and Video card(well the last release of it anyway).
4thman- Firstly, I second everything tcsenter said. 
What you'll want to do is first make sure the boots (i.e. works). Then, go here and download the newest BIOS for the VA-503+: JE4333.
After you flash to this BIOS, go into it and make sure you are not Shadowing any ROM's. Turn off the Anti-Virus option. Go through the rest of the screens and setup the BIOS like you normally would.
Regardless of what OS you use, make sure to install it in Normal mode, i.e. APM. If you don't know how to do this, post back here and someone will tell you how.
Another useful trick with this motherboard is to up the CPU Vcore by .1 volts. I've done this a number of times to FIC's VIA Socket-7 boards and its definitely helped with the stablility.
At the place I used to work, we used Matrox Millenium G200 cards; they were AGP with 8MB of SGRAM on them. I can't remember having too many video related problems.
Another trick is when you goto install VIA's AGP driver (unless your using XP or NT, then you don't have to install it), is to COPY the contents of the AgpMe folder into the Agp33 folder. Choose Yes to All when the Confirm File Overwrite windows comes up. I think this installs the newer AGP driver instead of the 1999 dated one.
Anyways...
Good luck! (You'll probably need it!)
Chuck
What you'll want to do is first make sure the boots (i.e. works). Then, go here and download the newest BIOS for the VA-503+: JE4333.
After you flash to this BIOS, go into it and make sure you are not Shadowing any ROM's. Turn off the Anti-Virus option. Go through the rest of the screens and setup the BIOS like you normally would.
Regardless of what OS you use, make sure to install it in Normal mode, i.e. APM. If you don't know how to do this, post back here and someone will tell you how.
Another useful trick with this motherboard is to up the CPU Vcore by .1 volts. I've done this a number of times to FIC's VIA Socket-7 boards and its definitely helped with the stablility.
At the place I used to work, we used Matrox Millenium G200 cards; they were AGP with 8MB of SGRAM on them. I can't remember having too many video related problems.
Another trick is when you goto install VIA's AGP driver (unless your using XP or NT, then you don't have to install it), is to COPY the contents of the AgpMe folder into the Agp33 folder. Choose Yes to All when the Confirm File Overwrite windows comes up. I think this installs the newer AGP driver instead of the 1999 dated one.
Anyways...
Good luck! (You'll probably need it!)
Chuck
If he uses the APM-only version of JE4333 he won't have to worry because all OS's will automatically install in APM mode. FIC added the ACPI feature to all BIOS later than JE1536 or JE1537, one of the two, and I don't believe there is any setting in the BIOS to disable ACPI.
We were having all kinds of problems with this when FIC added ACPI to the VA-503+ BIOS so I started modding the BIOS to remove ACPI support. This will force APM mode when installing any ACPI ready OS.
JE4333 'APM' BIOS (modded)
<Geocities link alert>
Ok thanks everyone.Reason I'm using this board is that I already have an At style case and p/s and the board was cheap.I've never done this before.I'm gonna install Win 98 on it as thats what I'm familiar with and its for my kids.Never done that before either.I'll ask the sender what version bios is on the board ,maybe it's up to date.I read that in the bios set up you should hi-lite "spread spectrum modulated" and this will enable 2x agp support.Also I was told to use the latest via 4in1 drivers.More to follow, thanks everyone,I knew I'd get answers here!
tcsenter- Cool! A modded BIOS for the -503+!
Is there anything other than defaulting to APM changed?
4thman- If you don't want to flash to a modded BIOS (not that it wouldn't be cool), just flash to the one I linked to. Then, when you have made all the BIOS changes, make one more: Set the Boot Sequence to A, C, whatever.
Insert the Windows 98 boot floppy and the Windows 98 CD-ROM and choose the Save Settings and Exit option.
When the floppy boots, chose the Start Computer with CD-ROM support.
After getting to the DOS prompt, switch to the CD-ROM drive and type "setup /p i" without the quotes. This will force Windows 98 to install in APM mode.
Good luck!
Chuck
Is there anything other than defaulting to APM changed?
4thman- If you don't want to flash to a modded BIOS (not that it wouldn't be cool), just flash to the one I linked to. Then, when you have made all the BIOS changes, make one more: Set the Boot Sequence to A, C, whatever.
Insert the Windows 98 boot floppy and the Windows 98 CD-ROM and choose the Save Settings and Exit option.
When the floppy boots, chose the Start Computer with CD-ROM support.
After getting to the DOS prompt, switch to the CD-ROM drive and type "setup /p i" without the quotes. This will force Windows 98 to install in APM mode.
Good luck!
Chuck
Nope, the only change is I removed the ACPI option ROM, which has no impact on the main system BIOS. The result is, when you install an ACPI OS on this BIOS, setup detects that the BIOS is not ACPI ready so it defaults to APM mode automatically.
Ok thanks folks.It's hard to pin down a vid card that is a no-brainer for this board.If possible I'm gonna get a 3dfx 4500 or 5500.All i've got for it at the moment is a pci ati 8 meg rage pro turbo, but it's a start.
Oh and tcsenter the link to the modded bios does not work.
Oh and tcsenter the link to the modded bios does not work.
4thman- You might want to think about not getting a Voodoo 4 or 5.
What's interesting is that the FAQ on the Tiawaneese English website says not to use Voodoo 3's (and I would presume to mean Voodoo 4 and 5's) because the VA-503+ (and PA-2013) motherboards cannot handle the current that they draw. Now when you go to the FAQ on the American website, they just say use the latest drivers from 3Dfx and VIA, but have no caution that you might very possibly ruin the motherboard. I know first hand that the PA-2013 did have this problem, because my buddy nuked his after he added a Voodoo3 3000.
If it were me, I'd seriously find out how much current the video card you want to put in draws and then find out how much the Voodoo3 3000 draws. If they get close, then you might want to think of another video card.
Not to diminsh these Forums in any way, but you might want to head on over here, K6-X Series CPU's Forum, to ask about which video card for your VA-503+. Those guys are still running and tweaking their Super-7 systems and might know of what is safe to put on your motherboard.
Good luck!
Chuck
What's interesting is that the FAQ on the Tiawaneese English website says not to use Voodoo 3's (and I would presume to mean Voodoo 4 and 5's) because the VA-503+ (and PA-2013) motherboards cannot handle the current that they draw. Now when you go to the FAQ on the American website, they just say use the latest drivers from 3Dfx and VIA, but have no caution that you might very possibly ruin the motherboard. I know first hand that the PA-2013 did have this problem, because my buddy nuked his after he added a Voodoo3 3000.
If it were me, I'd seriously find out how much current the video card you want to put in draws and then find out how much the Voodoo3 3000 draws. If they get close, then you might want to think of another video card.
Not to diminsh these Forums in any way, but you might want to head on over here, K6-X Series CPU's Forum, to ask about which video card for your VA-503+. Those guys are still running and tweaking their Super-7 systems and might know of what is safe to put on your motherboard.
Good luck!
Chuck
If you've got access to usenet (Google works) there are plenty of old posts on the VA-503+, there is a newsgroup just for FIC boards (alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.fic).
I don't think that the 3dfx 4500 or 5500 are good choices. I seem to remember the Voodoo3 2000/3000 series and Savage 2000 cards getting positive mention.
You can try a TNT2 or ATI Rage128, something in that area, but this seems to be more of a crap-shoot. There are as many reports of failures as successes on the FIC newsgroup. There is probably a dependency on card manufacturer as well, one TNT2 card is not identical to another TNT2 card.
An internet buddy of mine once emailed to say that he had a TNT2 M64 32MB AGP running flawlessly on his VA-503+ so I excitedly jumped online and bought a Jaton B-32 3DForce (TNT2 M64 32MB AGP). This was when the TNT2 M64 had only been out for about six months.
I spent two weeks trying to get that card working at 2x AGP; format and clean install of Win98, a half-dozen different nVidia drivers, two or three different 4-in-1's, turbo and regular AGP mode, it never worked. I even duplicated the bios settings he was using....nadda.
The card worked great in a PII system I had, 3D acceleration all day long at AGP 2x, so the card wasn't 'defective', but it was a different card manufacturer than the one my friend had used. Maybe that was the problem, I don't know.
Then I used an ATI Rage128 (Xpert128) 16MB AGP on another system, and while Direct 3D worked fine, it crashed on OpenGL if AGP was set to 2x. I fiddled with that system for two days, and eventually had to leave it at AGP 1x.
At any rate, when I finally ditched my K6 system and went to a KT133A Socket A/Duron, I have never regretted it for a second. heh
Its a Geocities server, so you need to either drag the link into the URL box or copy/paste the link into the URL box and hit enter.
Ok thanks,I had read it was just the V3000,I heard the V2000 did not have that problem.I'll do more searching.
4thman- What kind of CPU are you going to put in that thing? If you can, try and find one of the + series of K6-2 or K6-3.
You might also want to check out Anand's K6-2 and K6-3 Upgrade Guide and Super7 Upgrade Guide: The K6-2+ and K6-3+ Processors articles.
Also, Aces Hardware I think also had a couple of writeups on Super-7 stuff.
The current draw is what's going to kill you on the video card front. I'd be thinking some kind of GeforceMX card. I'm pretty sure that they don't draw that much power.
Anyone have a list of video cards and how much current they draw (max. and typical)?
Chuck
You might also want to check out Anand's K6-2 and K6-3 Upgrade Guide and Super7 Upgrade Guide: The K6-2+ and K6-3+ Processors articles.
Also, Aces Hardware I think also had a couple of writeups on Super-7 stuff.
The current draw is what's going to kill you on the video card front. I'd be thinking some kind of GeforceMX card. I'm pretty sure that they don't draw that much power.
Anyone have a list of video cards and how much current they draw (max. and typical)?
Chuck
Tiger Direct still has the AMD K6-II+ 450MHz for $34.99 + shipping. I've had a half-dozen of these processors and every one would do 550MHz (100MHz x 5.5) without a problem, two of them did 600MHz (100MHz x [2x multiplier = 6x]) just fine. I had to bump the voltage up to 2.1v for most of them to hit 550/600.
To use the 'Plus' series processors you need to use JE4330, JE4331, or JE4333 BIOS for native BIOS support. There are a couple utilities that you can use to get these processors working without these BIOS, but I've never used them because I figured why use a utility when you can have native BIOS support.
To use the 'Plus' series processors you need to use JE4330, JE4331, or JE4333 BIOS for native BIOS support. There are a couple utilities that you can use to get these processors working without these BIOS, but I've never used them because I figured why use a utility when you can have native BIOS support.
Wow thanks tcsenter and chucky2.I'm getting a k6-2 266 with the board,which I will upgrade,but its a start.I can find some 32 meg savage4's pretty cheap,they're ok at 800x 600.But drivers are iffy.Maybe I'll look for a gf2 mx-200,I just want something cheap.I've read the upgrade guide at Anands gf2 mx seems to be the way to go.Although I read the V5500 is good too because it has its own p/s.This system won't be a gaming machine ,but it would be nice if it could play some games at low res decently.Thanks.Oh and thanks for all the links
4thman- If it were me, I'd just go for the cheapest GeforceMX card out there.
You might want to research what the difference is between a Geforce2 MX, Geforce3 MX, and Geforce4 MX.
I have no clue.
Maybe that could be another post in the General or Video Forum?
Also, you might want to look into which GeforceMX cards have what current draw.
That link that tcsenter gave sounds like you best bet. K6-3+'s are real hard to find for cheap; as in you'll never find one, or it'll be >$50, which in my opinion just isn't worth it then.
The K6-2+ 500 that I have does 550 no problem. I never went to 600 though, I just didn't see a need. I mean, you can only run Word so fast!
Chuck
You might want to research what the difference is between a Geforce2 MX, Geforce3 MX, and Geforce4 MX.
I have no clue.
Maybe that could be another post in the General or Video Forum?
Also, you might want to look into which GeforceMX cards have what current draw.
That link that tcsenter gave sounds like you best bet. K6-3+'s are real hard to find for cheap; as in you'll never find one, or it'll be >$50, which in my opinion just isn't worth it then.
The K6-2+ 500 that I have does 550 no problem. I never went to 600 though, I just didn't see a need. I mean, you can only run Word so fast!
Chuck
I have to second (or is it third?) everything that tcsenter & chucky2 said.
Used a lot of FICs & PA2013s. they were the rage. (Hey, didn't someone already say that?
Labatts Genuine Draft is one of the world's great beers.
Too bad it is not available in Colorado. (At least a concerted effort on my part to find any went dry.)
Used a lot of FICs & PA2013s. they were the rage. (Hey, didn't someone already say that?
can't go wrong with one of these. Try for one on FleaBay if not pricewatch.compricewatch.com
Labatts Genuine Draft is one of the world's great beers.
Too bad it is not available in Colorado. (At least a concerted effort on my part to find any went dry.)
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