Fiber Channel.... does anyone know about this stuff?

[therealmitchmoyars]

Ok I know this isn't exactly a networking questions but it's close. I'm looking to build a video storage system. I need it to be at least 6 Tb. in size, I need it to be expandable, and I need to be able to have at least 180Mb/sec write speed. SCSI was just no expandable and limited to the number of drives so I think Fiber channel is the way to go. The problem is I have never worked with it and know next to nothing. Does anyone know a good deal about fiber channel or a good place to read up on how to set it up. Most sites give me a super detailed look at the technology but don't show me how to set it up. Thanks in advance



----Mitch

 

[Nothinman]

Setting it up depends on the switch you buy, after you assign the disks they should appear as normal SCSI disks on the clients. I can't really say much more as I've only worked on the client end, I was there when the guy setup the disks on the fibre switch but I didn't do it myself so I don't really know any specifics.

 

[therealmitchmoyars]

I plan on uses a Dell Switch. I can't seem to find any rackmount cases for Fiber Channels drives so I'll most likely end up using some Dell Power edges as well.

 

[Nothinman]

Dell hardware and myself don't get along, good luck.

 

[azev]

You should start calling SAN Supplier.

 

[therealmitchmoyars]

Do you know of any good SAN suppliers?

 

[Garion]

If you don't know much about fiber channel, I'd consider using a NAS device. It's a heck of a lot easier to understand for a network/server guy and it's just as fast.

I'm a BIG fan of Network Appliance gear, and I've spent a lot of money with them. They have made me pretty happy, and I'm impressed with their products. It's at least something to look at and consider, even if you DO end up going with a SAN.

If you want some contacts at Netapp, let me know via PM where you live and I'll try to find a sales contact for you.

Otherwise.. What kind of server? How many servers? How will you back it up? How much redundancy do you need? What's driving the 180Mb/s?

- G

 

[SaigonK]

Originally posted by: therealmitchmoyars
Ok I know this isn't exactly a networking questions but it's close. I'm looking to build a video storage system. I need it to be at least 6 Tb. in size, I need it to be expandable, and I need to be able to have at least 180Mb/sec write speed. SCSI was just no expandable and limited to the number of drives so I think Fiber channel is the way to go. The problem is I have never worked with it and know next to nothing. Does anyone know a good deal about fiber channel or a good place to read up on how to set it up. Most sites give me a super detailed look at the technology but don't show me how to set it up. Thanks in advance ----Mitch

You will need to buy the following equipment:

Server
Fiber channel card for each system you intend to connect to it (Qlogic is a good vendor)
MCdata (or brocade) Fiber switches to go to the array.
Some sort of array. (EMC would be a good place to start)

Dell can give you some good prices on the total package, but i dont know if you realize how much you are talking about in costs.
I just ordered a CX400 from dell with 1/2 terabyte of space and it was quoted at $90,000 with the cards and switches...this unit will go up to 8Terabyte total.
You would need something along the lines of a DMX600 series system to go upwards of 12TB or more.

 

[SaigonK]

Originally posted by: Garion
If you don't know much about fiber channel, I'd consider using a NAS device. It's a heck of a lot easier to understand for a network/server guy and it's just as fast. I'm a BIG fan of Network Appliance gear, and I've spent a lot of money with them. They have made me pretty happy, and I'm impressed with their products. It's at least something to look at and consider, even if you DO end up going with a SAN. If you want some contacts at Netapp, let me know via PM where you live and I'll try to find a sales contact for you. Otherwise.. What kind of server? How many servers? How will you back it up? How much redundancy do you need? What's driving the 180Mb/s? - G

NAS is horrible for speed, you lose out on read/write throughput. but that;s if you really need that type of throughput.
Also, do you intend to mirror all of your drives? RAID-5 will slow you down a ton, so mirrored disk would be the best bet. The DX600 can also accept Serial ATA drives up to 250GB so it makes it pretty nice when you need raw data space.

 

[MysticLlama]

Wow, $90k for 1/2 a Terabyte? Did I read that right?

Is it for a lot of servers or something?

The reason that I ask is that I was quoted $10,000 for a HP MSA1000 from CDW w/500GB of storage. (438 useable if you RAID5 the 7 73GB disks).

Then to add a single server to that is $1500 for the HBA and $85 for the cable.

To expand it you'd need the 8 port switch ($6500ish) and more HBA cards.

The Dell just seems like some big money for such a small amount of space.

If I remember right, the MSA goes to 6TB, though that may be going up as drives get bigger, HP/Compaq stuff has always been pretty good about that.

If you're interested I also know of a good supplier to get even better prices than this that I've had really good luck with.

 

[SaigonK]

The MSA is a good unit, but read the specs on it. It doesnt have anywhere near the speed capabilities of a CX or DX from EMC.
Right now you are talking about $18,000 for the HP setup and you dont even have any support yet. You have to pay for support and for the pathing software as well.

 

[MysticLlama]

So, not to jack the thread and trying to stay on topic, but that raises a couple of questions.

What's the pathing software that would be needed on an MSA? According to the storage rep I spoke with, it is useable right out of the box, and anyone that can configure a Compaq array can get it running within an hour or less.

Also, he didn't mention anything about support other than the upgraded warranty plans that increase the term and/or decrease the response time for hardware replacement.

Is it a lot different than other HPaq hardware support-wise? I've always had really good support from them just from the baseline that's included.

Also, back on track to the first post, if he's looking for video storage, he didn't really say anything about multiple machines, so would the performance really be that bad on a 2gb MSA? Where does the performance start causing problems?

I guess my thing is that we're so much smaller IT wise then most companies that would look at a SAN, it's just that I have the budget opportunity right now to get into that sort of architechture.

It's gonna be used for an Exchange server with <60 mailboxes and a SQL Server that doesn't even have any existing data yet, as well as just having a bunch of storage for the network and straight to disk backups.

 

[Nothinman]

What's the pathing software that would be needed on an MSA? According to the storage rep I spoke with, it is useable right out of the box, and anyone that can configure a Compaq array can get it running within an hour or less.

For multi-pathing. It's necessary for having 2 cards in either a redundant or combined fashion, just 1 card will work fine with just the normal drivers.

 

[SaigonK]

Besides two fiber channel cards you also need software that is MP aware.
Multipathing doesnt just happen on a windows PC.

Veritas Volume Manager 3 is what youwould need for Dynamic Multipathing.

 

[Nothinman]

I've only done any FC work with Linux and that doesn't do multipathing by default in 2.4 either, infact when talking to the FC guys the only OS that does multipathing out of the box is Tru64, go figure.

 

[SaigonK]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I've only done any FC work with Linux and that doesn't do multipathing by default in 2.4 either, infact when talking to the FC guys the only OS that does multipathing out of the box is Tru64, go figure.

Yup! been there and done that.
I hate buying Volume Manager, on top of all the other things you have to get, it's another $100 or so...