Fermi's (gtx 380) NDA to lift tonight? Finally some real benchies.

[ScorcherDarkly]

I'm still flabbergasted at the 6-pin + 8-pin power requirement. And the fact that they're designing cases around a Fermi SLi configuration because they're afraid normal cases won't be able to keep them cool enough.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Well, the 9800GTX was clocked a little higher than the 8800GTS 512, so not a straight rebadge. Same with the GTX+, even higher clocks (as well as the die shrink). So technically you could OC your 8800GTS 512 into a GTS 250.

But the 4890 is a higher clocked 4870. The chip has been reworked to allow higher clocks, but really saying the 8800GTS is now the GTS 250 is the same as saying the 4870 is really the 4890.

Did someone suggest that the 8800GTS512 was regadged to the 9800GTX+? If so, I didn't see it.

The 9800GTX+ was clearly very closely related to the 9800GTX/8800GTS512 (and really the 8800GTX before it I guess), but as you said it was built on 55nm as opposed to 65nm and given a clock speed bump. I don't think anyone was claiming that the 8800GTS was renamed to the GTS250. But, the 8800GTS512 was renamed to the 9800GTX. The 9800GTX was given a 55nm shrink and higher clocks, then called the 9800GTX+. The 9800GTX+ was renamed to the GTS250.

Nvidia's naming covention during the 8800 and 9800 days was down right awful. There were cards with the same name that had different specs. There were cards that had higher numbered 9 series name but had the same exact specs as an 8 series card.

Also, I'd say the 4870 -> 4890 was a bit different than the 8800GTS512/9800GTX -> 9800GTX+/GTS250. The 4890 is a physically different chip with some millions more transistors and a larger size, both built on the same process. Again, the 4890 is obviously very closely realted to the 4870, but it is a different chip, not just a shrink and clock bump. I'd say the 8800GTS512/9800GTX -> 9800GTX+/GTS250 is more along the lines of the Radeon 2900 -> Radeon 3870. The 3870 was shrank and given a clock bump (and DX10.1 support up from DX10 on the 2900). Not trying to nitpick. I just thought that'd be a bit more accurate of a comparrison.

 

[waffleironhead]

So the 9800 gt that was previously an 8800gt doesnt count as a rebadge right? because they did go to a smaller process.

Quit trying the sidestep what you said. YOU WERE WRONG.

 

[Reliant]

No real benchmarks yet. These are the best pictures of the card I've seen:

It's not confirmed as the final design, but it looks pretty retail ready to me.

Seeing those power plugs on the side makes me happy! I see both next gen cards (ATI/Nvidia) have those. My 4890 is long enough that the plugs on the back of the card really cramp getting it in there in my case. This is good news on either path I choose!

 

[nitromullet]

I'm still flabbergasted at the 6-pin + 8-pin power requirement. And the fact that they're designing cases around a Fermi SLi configuration because they're afraid normal cases won't be able to keep them cool enough.

Why would the 6 + 8-pin power plug surprise you? The GTX 280 had the same... The 5870 has dual 6-pin, and we know it's a smaller core.

I haven't heard anything about designing cases because of thermal issues either. Even if you have, its most likey just rumor/FUD. Remember when the 8800GTX was supposedly going to ship with hybrid water/air cooling?

...don't believe everything you read on the internet...

 

[T2k]

Why would the 6 + 8-pin power plug surprise you? The GTX 280 had the same... The 5870 has dual 6-pin, and we know it's a smaller core.

I haven't heard anything about designing cases because of thermal issues either. Even if you have, its most likey just rumor/FUD.

Oh I see now: so even if it's only you who does not know about something others talk about then it doesn't exist and end of story on your part...

Priceless.

 

[ScorcherDarkly]

I haven't heard anything about designing cases because of thermal issues either. Even if you have, its most likey just rumor/FUD. Remember when the 8800GTX was supposedly going to ship with hybrid water/air cooling?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ces-2010-amd-890,2530.html

Thermaltake is also shipping two cases, the Element V and Element V Nvidia edition, both aimed squarely at the hearts and minds of high-end gamers. The Nvidia edition offers additional cooling in the form of a duct plus side-mounted fan over the expansion slots. Ramsom Koay of Thermaltake noted that the Nvidia edition is the first case certified by Nvidia to offer cooling for multi-Fermi GPU systems.

A CES vendor demo seemed like a fairly reliable source to me.

 

[MrK6]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ces-2010-amd-890,2530.html
A CES vendor demo seemed like a fairly reliable source to me.

That's hilarious, "NVIDIA Edition," can't wait for the "POS edition" or "Space Heater Edition" 'shops. Again, AMD could turn this into egg on their faces so fast, but I doubt they will. "NVIDIA's GPUs are so hot and run so efficiently they need special cases to run. Our GPUs are green, efficient, and won't limit you in your builds or design." etc.

 

[formulav8]

The change from 8800GT to 9800GT was close to an outright rebadge with the exact same clockspeeds. nVidia was rebadging it yet again to the GTS series (I think 240??) until consumer complaints kept them from doing it.

The 9800+ GTX is similar to the 9800 GTX with some minor clockspeed bumps. Then nVidia was at it again and rebadged it to the GTS250.

Now they are at it again with the GT210 series making it a GT310 series.


This is pitiful of nvidia to do this. I would definitely nominate them and creative as the top 2x rebadging kings!

PS: I could have some info wrong


Jason

 

[happy medium]

The change from 8800GT to 9800GT was close to an outright rebadge with the exact same clockspeeds. nVidia was rebadging it yet again to the GTS series (I think 240??) until consumer complaints kept them from doing it.

The 9800+ GTX is similar to the 9800 GTX with some minor clockspeed bumps. Then nVidia was at it again and rebadged it to the GTS250.

Now they are at it again with the GT210 series making it a GT310 series.


This is pitiful of nvidia to do this. I would definitely nominate them and creative as the top 2x rebadging kings!

PS: I could have some info wrong


Jason

I don't think it's pitiful for a company to capitalize on a great 8800 series.
If the Fermi series is as good, I'd shrink it, and rebage it, as long as it's competative with AMD and makes it cheaper for us who cares?

Now to rebage and shrink a gtx 260/285 without direct x 11 and other added features at this point, in my book a no-no.
Or you could argue like many AMD people have that direct x 11 won't run on these lower end rebages anyway?

 

[T2k]

This whole rebadging game born out of desperate needs when most of their game plan went down in toilet, thanks to their engineering screwups, bad design etc.
It was documented zillion times how many models they couldn't get out the door, were forced to drop dual-GPU plans until a die shrink was ready at TSMC (Fermi, anyone?) etc etc.

 

[happy medium]

This whole rebadging game born out of desperate needs when most of their game plan went down in toilet, thanks to their engineering screwups, bad design etc.
It was documented zillion times how many models they couldn't get out the door, were forced to drop dual-GPU plans until a die shrink was ready at TSMC (Fermi, anyone?) etc etc.

You are reffering to both AMD and Nvidia right?

2900 anyone and the 3800 series was no competition for the 8800 series.

Seems AMD needed the 4800 series to compete.

 

[formulav8]

You are reffering to both AMD and Nvidia right?

2900 anyone and the 3800 series was no competition for the 8800 series.

Seems AMD needed the 4800 series to compete.

Whats that supposed to mean? Some would say nVidia needed G80 to compete, Intel needed Core2 to compete, blah blah blah. So stinking what?

Unfortunately your post almost sounded like something wreckage would post :sneaky: () Just kidding though


Jason

 

[SolMiester]

You are reffering to both AMD and Nvidia right?

2900 anyone and the 3800 series was no competition for the 8800 series.

Seems AMD needed the 4800 series to compete.

LOL, thats right, I dont remember the 18xx series being that flash either....the 19xx was ATi's saving grace!

 

[happy medium]

Whats that supposed to mean? Some would say nVidia needed G80 to compete, Intel needed Core2 to compete, blah blah blah. So stinking what?

Unfortunately your post almost sounded like something wreckage would post :sneaky: () Just kidding though


Jason

I was more pointing out the total fail with the 2900 series.

But you are right even I'm being trolled by the constaint Nvidia trashing of T2K. Wreakage isn't much better.
I opologize. I'm no fanboy but it gets quite annoying as stated by numerous other poeple.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I was more pointing out the total fail with the 2900 series.

But you are right even I'm being trolled by the constaint Nvidia trashing of T2K. Wreakage isn't much better.
I opologize. I'm no fanboy but it gets quite annoying as stated by numerous other poeple.

For whatever it's worth I had a 2900 Pro and loved that card. DX9 games at 1680x1050 ran great on it at the time.

 

[SHAQ]

So why does a case that one manufacturer is making connote a standard for Fermi GPU's? I haven't seen lines from all manufacturers with this special Fermi cooling seal. Have any of you heard of marketing? Thermaltake can put this stupid seal on the box and some idiots will buy it thinking it is better than any other case all the while thermaltake pockets a few extra percent of profit margin. Give it a rest.

 

[v8envy]

So why does a case that one manufacturer is making connote a standard for Fermi GPU's? I haven't seen lines from all manufacturers with this special Fermi cooling seal. Have any of you heard of marketing? Thermaltake can put this stupid seal on the box and some idiots will buy it thinking it is better than any other case all the while thermaltake pockets a few extra percent of profit margin. Give it a rest.

They why haven't they done it until now? We've had plenty of hot cards in the past; and it's only with the Fermi that they bothered to start this marketing.

Could be branding and cross-marketing, could be a needed feature. We'll find out more in the coming weeks.

NV isn't using 8+6 pin just because. They're using 8+6 pin because the card will need that much power. Power which will be dissipated as heat. Any additional cooling will be welcome, especially for the "extreme" users with two of these 300 watt bad boys in their machine.

 

[T2k]

You are reffering to both AMD and Nvidia right?

Mmmm... I'm not following you... where did ATI do anything comparable to Nvidia's 2+ years-long rename-game?

2900 anyone and the 3800 series was no competition for the 8800 series.

Rrrrriiiiight.... and this is relevant to rebadging... exactly how...?

Seems AMD needed the 4800 series to compete.

Which was a new core, not a rebadged 3800, right...

 

[T2k]

I was more pointing out the total fail with the 2900 series.

But you are right even I'm being trolled by the constaint Nvidia trashing of T2K. Wreakage isn't much better.
I opologize. I'm no fanboy but it gets quite annoying as stated by numerous other poeple.

Yyeah, facts could be annoying.

 

[SHAQ]

Then why isn't there an ATI 5970 edition case since those can easily exceed 300 watts when OC'd? I don't see any talk of that. Just because it is dual GPU doesn't make it different as it is still a dual slot card. The 8800GTX and the GTX 280 are both fairly close in power consumption to the 380. Also why no tri-SLI edition cases? Surely 3 285's consume more power than 2 380's will?

 

[T2k]

So why does a case that one manufacturer is making connote a standard for Fermi GPU's? I haven't seen lines from all manufacturers with this special Fermi cooling seal. Have any of you heard of marketing? Thermaltake can put this stupid seal on the box and some idiots will buy it thinking it is better than any other case all the while thermaltake pockets a few extra percent of profit margin. Give it a rest.

Khm, perhaps the lack of existence - still no GF100 (Fermi) - has to do something with the lack of enthusiasm from OEMs...?

 

[SolMiester]

Mmmm... I'm not following you... where did ATI do anything comparable to Nvidia's 2+ years-long rename-game?

I think he was referring to your comment ...."thanks to their engineering screwups, bad design etc."

 

[T2k]

Then why isn't there an ATI 5970 edition case since those can easily exceed 300 watts when OC'd?

Errr, because it does not need it?

And it's for regular Fermi, not overclocked. :twisted:

I don't see any talk of that. Just because it is dual GPU doesn't make it different as it is still a dual slot card. The 8800GTX and the GTX 280 are both fairly close in power consumption to the 380. Also why no tri-SLI edition cases?

I'm not following you, I'm afraid... you claimed it's not important, now you're claiming it's the same as if they would use

Surely 3 285's consume more power than 2 380's will?

Errr, no, most likely it isn't - think about it: 3x1.4B trannies on 55nm vs 2x3.2B trannies on 40nm but higher clocks and reportedly higher voltage

 

[T2k]

I think he was referring to your comment ...."thanks to their engineering screwups, bad design etc."

Ahh sure, ATI and AMD had their own fair share of f**kups too, no question about it - but it seems at least ATI learned their (R600's 90nm library bug) lesson while Nvidia is seemingly repeating the same mistake over and over again.