Ferguson: The Fire This Time Bill Moyers NPR

[Jhhnn]

Race does play a factor, but the emphasis should be on changing that. Moyers and his ilk would never allow that any more than a hard core racist. The latter says Brown must be guilty, the first assumes the opposite. A verbose ignoramus.

It's remarkable how little of what Moyers has to say can penetrate that cocoon of denial. When he points out that a fair trial for Brown's slayer will be difficult to achieve, that does not mean he claims the officer to be guilty at all. He merely points out that the workings of racist society will automatically tend to excuse the officer, regardless of what really happened. If you believe to the contrary, you probably own Arizona oceanfront you've never even seen.

You can see that happening in this thread & others.

Had this been the death of a white kid in Clayton, MO, the whole slant would be entirely different & the libertopian ravers would be going on about the fucking Police State.

That's what happens when white people are subjected to the same sort of policing that black people have endured since forever.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's remarkable how little of what Moyers has to say can penetrate that cocoon of denial. When he points out that a fair trial for Brown's slayer will be difficult to achieve, that does not mean he claims the officer to be guilty at all. He merely points out that the workings of racist society will automatically tend to excuse the officer, regardless of what really happened. If you believe to the contrary, you probably own Arizona oceanfront you've never even seen.

You can see that happening in this thread & others.

Had this been the death of a white kid in Clayton, MO, the whole slant would be entirely different & the libertopian ravers would be going on about the fucking Police State.

That's what happens when white people are subjected to the same sort of policing that black people have endured since forever.

If it had been a white kid in Clayton Moyers wouldn't have cared. H
Moyer's plays race where so far that's not been shown as a factor. That won't stop him from giving no consideration that Brown may have been completely responsible for his demise. Since I don't know I won't come to that conclusion which is a damn sight better that Mothers "fairness" and the "justice" the shop owners have received. The Pharisee standing on the street crying out his superiority while pronouncing guilt doesn't tell us a thing about what happened.

 

[Jhhnn]

If it had been a white kid in Clayton Moyers wouldn't have cared. H
Moyer's plays race where so far that's not been shown as a factor. That won't stop him from giving no consideration that Brown may have been completely responsible for his demise. Since I don't know I won't come to that conclusion which is a damn sight better that Mothers "fairness" and the "justice" the shop owners have received. The Pharisee standing on the street crying out his superiority while pronouncing guilt doesn't tell us a thing about what happened.

Funny that the residents of Ferguson saw it as racist, huh?

Maybe they're a little closer to the situation than a keyboard jockey in a remote location.

With the usual false attributions to Moyers, of course, followed by diversion into mock piety for Ferguson shop owners.

It's not like all white people don't get it- the protesters were racially diverse, unlike the cops.

 

[BoberFett]

Of course you don't like it, you tender flower. It challenges what you believe.

Jim Crow and slavery before it were designed to hold blacks to a lower socio-economic status. That was the whole point of it. It worked. It kept a lot of black people poor, so they were poorer than America in general when the civil rights act so of the 60's were passed. And they're still poorer, 50 years later.

So it proves that they really are inferior or that racist society still holds them back. Are you willing to entertain the notion that they are inferior? If not, and I certainly am not, then the alternate conclusion is inescapable. Well, except via denial.

That certainly explains all those poor black people in Chicago and New York. All those damn Jim Crow laws...

:hmm:

 

[Victorian Gray]

That certainly explains all those poor black people in Chicago and New York. All those damn Jim Crow laws...

:hmm:

Different strategies for different areas of the country. I can see how that might be confusing.

 

[cubby1223]

Of course you don't like it, you tender flower. It challenges what you believe.

Jim Crow and slavery before it were designed to hold blacks to a lower socio-economic status. That was the whole point of it. It worked. It kept a lot of black people poor, so they were poorer than America in general when the civil rights act so of the 60's were passed. And they're still poorer, 50 years later.

So it proves that they really are inferior or that racist society still holds them back. Are you willing to entertain the notion that they are inferior? If not, and I certainly am not, then the alternate conclusion is inescapable. Well, except via denial.

I must thank you, because you stated a view so clearly that I think also drives a lot of "liberals" on this subject.

America is racist based on the fact that you personally don't want to bother researching the topic of poverty in any greater depth.

 

[cubby1223]

We still don't have enough threads dedicated to Ferguson.

Please start some more.

 

[pcgeek11]

I offered no excuses for racism, other than what denialists can twist into their usual cocoon.

The statistics are plain enough- black people are disproportionately poor. That's just the truth, and there's obviously reason for that.

Deal with it.

You are correct. There are many reasons for that. Part is the history of racism, and the other part is a willingness to stay on the welfare dime, the drug culture etc ... There are in fact Many Reasons. IMO racism is only a small part of the actual reasons. It just gets used most of the time as an excuse more so than a reason.

 

[Jaskalas]

When it comes to poverty you have a choice to bring people together for a common cause. To embrace unity. Or to embrace hatred and divisiveness. We know on which side folks stand when they want policy to judge others on the color of their skin.

You honor yourselves on the idea of doing good for one race, when you should be working for all races. To make poverty a racist issue is a despicable betrayal of Dr. King and his message.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Funny that the residents of Ferguson saw it as racist, huh?

Maybe they're a little closer to the situation than a keyboard jockey in a remote location.

With the usual false attributions to Moyers, of course, followed by diversion into mock piety for Ferguson shop owners.

It's not like all white people don't get it- the protesters were racially diverse, unlike the cops.

And as usual the keyboard apologist ignores that he doesn't know what happened, that the protestors don't know despite anything else, but you? You'll ignore real harm done, defend it, because you don't and never did care about people. Not all white people nor black are like you, excusing harm as you always do by those who support violence, well if you can display piety in doing so. No, that's not going to work. You'll never be accused of caring about injustice, as you just use it as a plaything. You don't care about anyone well unless it's to protect your personal tin gods. You certainly don't care about the people of Ferguson any more than those you dismissed from Iraq, which is to say not at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

And as usual the keyboard apologist ignores that he doesn't know what happened, that the protestors don't know despite anything else, but you? You'll ignore real harm done, defend it, because you don't and never did care about people. Not all white people nor black are like you, excusing harm as you always do by those who support violence, well if you can display piety in doing so. No, that's not going to work. You'll never be accused of caring about injustice, as you just use it as a plaything. You don't care about anyone well unless it's to protect your personal tin gods. You certainly don't care about the people of Ferguson any more than those you dismissed from Iraq, which is to say not at all.

Can we get more raving denial, false attribution & obfuscation please?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Can we get more raving denial, false attribution & obfuscation please?

Of course. You'll provide a nonstop supply.

 

[Jhhnn]

I must thank you, because you stated a view so clearly that I think also drives a lot of "liberals" on this subject.

America is racist based on the fact that you personally don't want to bother researching the topic of poverty in any greater depth.

Heh. So black people aren't disproportionately poor? What sort of research would you suggest to avoid the obvious?

 

[dphantom]

Can we get more raving denial, false attribution & obfuscation please?

everytime you post.

 

[Jhhnn]

And as usual the keyboard apologist ignores that he doesn't know what happened, that the protestors don't know despite anything else, but you? You'll ignore real harm done, defend it, because you don't and never did care about people. Not all white people nor black are like you, excusing harm as you always do by those who support violence, well if you can display piety in doing so. No, that's not going to work. You'll never be accused of caring about injustice, as you just use it as a plaything. You don't care about anyone well unless it's to protect your personal tin gods. You certainly don't care about the people of Ferguson any more than those you dismissed from Iraq, which is to say not at all.

Of course. You'll provide a nonstop supply.

The protesters understand their social milieu & relationship with local law enforcement better than either of us, I suspect.

Ignore real harm done? I haven't tried to shift the focus away from a dead unarmed youth onto the small % of protesters who engaged in looting. Nor have I defended that violence, either. It's necessary to your argument to claim that I have, otherwise you'd have no argument.

Which has nothing to do with Iraq, but you have to use a little "compassionate conservatism" from time to time, obviously.

 

[Jhhnn]

everytime you post.

Quote the false attribution.

 

[HomerJS]

How many people here spout off the inherent racism meme, young black males are guilty until proven innocent or are automatically thugs.

Whether its a male walking down the street to Richard Sherman of the Seattle Seahawks who is a Stanford U grad with a 4 GPA and has no criminal record. Remember his thugification after the Super Bowl?

The pat retort is well you people commit most of the crime in proportion to you population. My response is "do black in upper-class neighborhoods commit more crime the whites? I never get an answer.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The protesters understand their social milieu & relationship with local law enforcement better than either of us, I suspect.

Ignore real harm done? I haven't tried to shift the focus away from a dead unarmed youth onto the small % of protesters who engaged in looting. Nor have I defended that violence, either. It's necessary to your argument to claim that I have, otherwise you'd have no argument.

Which has nothing to do with Iraq, but you have to use a little "compassionate conservatism" from time to time, obviously.

Last I knew that dead unarmed youth wasn't cleared of being a danger. He may or may not have been but then the officer may have acted properly and he may not. That won't stop anyone from pretending they do. It didn't prevent Moyers from obfuscation or diversion from whatever crime occurred. Besides, Obama has Holder watching things. You now suspect that they're racists?

Regarding Iraq, your incredible lack of compassion for perhaps half a million dead displayed by your defense of no effort to find them justice leaves you little credibility here. This is only a game to you. Everyone is entitled to justice, and that's where we view things differently.

 

[piasabird]

Never met a slave.

 

[cubby1223]

How many people here spout off the inherent racism meme, young black males are guilty until proven innocent or are automatically thugs.

No. But those who rob are viewed very unfavorably.

How many people on this forum say cops are guilty without a chance to prove innocence?

You don't create a better tomorrow by repeating the problems of the past.

Whether its a male walking down the street to Richard Sherman of the Seattle Seahawks who is a Stanford U grad with a 4 GPA and has no criminal record. Remember his thugification after the Super Bowl?

No, I don't. Maybe some did, maybe some didn't. I wasn't paying attention to that particular subject.

Shall we have a war of remembered events? Remember the Duke Lacrosse case? Your move next. Because this game is totally proving something useful!

 

[werepossum]

I think it is funny how Conservatives loved all these news radio and tv shows like NPR and claimed not long ago how they were unbiased when it suited THEIR agenda and political viewpoints, but boy as soon as a conservative see's them putting out an article or radio interview that they don't like or agree with suddenly that source is "leftwing" or biased in favor of "leftwing".

What happens when FOX news reports something they don't like? They clam up...lol

I guess there are no more unbiased news sources to go to now huh? Not even FOX can be trusted...lmao

I like NPR because they are liberals who recognize this and try to be fair. However, within that framework we have Moyers, who is and always has been an ideologue of the first water. Moyers is NOT a newsman, Moyers is a far left ranter.

 

[Jhhnn]

Last I knew that dead unarmed youth wasn't cleared of being a danger. He may or may not have been but then the officer may have acted properly and he may not. That won't stop anyone from pretending they do. It didn't prevent Moyers from obfuscation or diversion from whatever crime occurred. Besides, Obama has Holder watching things. You now suspect that they're racists?

What a desperate display of diversionary shit flinging. The fact that the shooting brought thousands of demonstrators to the streets tells us that there are deep seated issues between the citizens of Ferguson & the police. The fact that Ferguson & St Louis County police responded with full stiff dick militarization tells us the same thing.

That's what Moyers is talking about, despite your best efforts to hide that.

Regarding Iraq, your incredible lack of compassion for perhaps half a million dead displayed by your defense of no effort to find them justice leaves you little credibility here. This is only a game to you. Everyone is entitled to justice, and that's where we view things differently.

If you're going to reference my remarks on that subject, you need links & quotes rather that just stating your opinion as fact, which it isn't.

 

[cubby1223]

I think it is funny how Conservatives loved all these news radio and tv shows like NPR and claimed not long ago how they were unbiased

Please define "not long ago." Because to my memory this (~4 years) was "not long ago":

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/44056.html

 

[cubby1223]

What a desperate display of diversionary shit flinging. The fact that the shooting brought thousands of demonstrators to the streets tells us that there are deep seated issues between the citizens of Ferguson & the police. The fact that Ferguson & St Louis County police responded with full stiff dick militarization tells us the same thing.

In other words:

"These events resulted, therefore my best guess analysis of why must be true."

 

[cubby1223]

The family described their son, who very likely committed strong-arm robbery, a "gentle soul." A community rallied to support this "innocent victim." Some in the community took to rioting, vandalizing, and burning which set the community back economically at least a decade, maybe more, and in the new reality of the global economy maybe forever casting the community in poverty.

There is a shit-ton of problems in the area. Pegging it at one as being the cause, is flat out ignorant. Yes it's the convenient answer to expel your anger and rage. But is it the correct answer?