Ferguson Police Chief Lied About Why He Released Alleged Michael Brown Robbery Tape

[ivwshane]

I asked first why it shouldn't be released. See my quoted post # 7 above. I think everything should be open.

Well you answer mine first.

I have no control over what is or isn't released. It does seem the AG Holder is trying to suppress the flow of information from what I have read. Ask him.

http://www.americasfreedomfighters....ferguson-police-not-to-release-robbery-video/

A law enforcement source told CNN that Ferguson police actually wanted to release the video one day earlier on Thursday, but held off because of objections by the Justice Department.

I would have preferred to release all or nothing. Now feel free to answer my question.

 

[jackstar7]

Mom jokes don't work on adults.

To be clear, they do work on people of all ages with a sense of humor.

Thanks for clarifying the lack of yours.


Also, who takes a mom joke seriously in this decade? Yeesh. Lighten up, "pops".

 

[werepossum]

I can't believe I am defending Spidey, but this is ridiculous.

Yes, because all Longshoremen are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2190454&highlight=thug

All Germans are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2381077&highlight=thug

Ohh and all white guys are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36171998&postcount=611

Need I go on?

This whole "thug is black" thing is ridiculous. Thug is a behavior, not a race. And singling out Spidey like he only uses it on black people, associating the word 100% with them, is silly. He obviously associates the word with a behavior.

I thought so as well, but clearly the mods do not agree. Anyone is free to appeal this point in the proper forum, but the point of having mods is to have lines of decorum drawn, and such lines are by definition somewhat arbitrary.

For myself, I find it ludicrous that this young man committed a robbery minutes before the final altercation and some people's problem is that we know about it. How would it be better had the Chief decided to simply let the town burn on the notion that this young man was an angel murdered in cold blood? Whether or not it was a factor in the shooting, it is certainly a factor in making guesses about the case, which is all any of us are doing.

 

[werepossum]

To be clear, they do work on people of all ages with a sense of humor.

Thanks for clarifying the lack of yours.


Also, who takes a mom joke seriously in this decade? Yeesh. Lighten up, "pops".

I laughed. It's never good to take the Internet seriously.

 

[LegendKiller]

I thought so as well, but clearly the mods do not agree. Anyone is free to appeal this point in the proper forum, but the point of having mods is to have lines of decorum drawn, and such lines are by definition somewhat arbitrary.

For myself, I find it ludicrous that this young man committed a robbery minutes before the final altercation and some people's problem is that we know about it. How would it be better had the Chief decided to simply let the town burn on the notion that this young man was an angel murdered in cold blood? Whether or not it was a factor in the shooting, it is certainly a factor in making guesses about the case, which is all any of us are doing.

Because people want to not account for personal responsibility. It seems like they would rather create a saint than dismiss a monster, it's far more politically convenient to do that.

 

[werepossum]

Because people want to not account for personal responsibility. It seems like they would rather create a saint than dismiss a monster, it's far more politically convenient to do that.

Agreed.

 

[her209]

Sorry, but this is just BS. The definition of a thug -

a violent person, especially a criminal.
synonyms: ruffian, hooligan, vandal, hoodlum, gangster, villain, criminal; More

So we have a person that was violent, likely in a gang, and a criminal.

Just because he happens to be black makes no difference. Saddam Hussein was a thug. Quaddafi was a thug. Assad is a thug. Are you now going to call me racist against Arabic people too?

Or maybe there's another common denominator, like they were/are all violent, regime leading, criminals?

Cliven Bundy and his gang were thugs.

 

[Pens1566]

I can't believe I am defending Spidey, but this is ridiculous.

Yes, because all Longshoremen are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2190454&highlight=thug

All Germans are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2381077&highlight=thug

Ohh and all white guys are black.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36171998&postcount=611

Need I go on?



This whole "thug is black" thing is ridiculous. Thug is a behavior, not a race. And singling out Spidey like he only uses it on black people, associating the word 100% with them, is silly. He obviously associates the word with a behavior.

Ok, then what was he talking about when he used the term "skittles"??? You have to take it in context of the poster and for someone that has been vacationed numerous times for outright blatant racism it's not hard to tell what he's doing. In fact, someone else on the forum defined thug as someone with darker skin not too long ago as well.

 

[nehalem256]

I thought so as well, but clearly the mods do not agree. Anyone is free to appeal this point in the proper forum, but the point of having mods is to have lines of decorum drawn, and such lines are by definition somewhat arbitrary.

For myself, I find it ludicrous that this young man committed a robbery minutes before the final altercation and some people's problem is that we know about it. How would it be better had the Chief decided to simply let the town burn on the notion that this young man was an angel murdered in cold blood? Whether or not it was a factor in the shooting, it is certainly a factor in making guesses about the case, which is all any of us are doing.

Because certain people want that outcome so they can more easily push their agenda.

 

[ivwshane]

Because certain people want that outcome so they can more easily push their agenda.

Would that be the same people that only released a video and no other evidence?


You stupid fucks are nothing but hypocrites.

 

[alzan]

Because people want to not account for personal responsibility. It seems like they would rather create a saint than dismiss a monster, it's far more politically convenient to do that.

Too simplistic. People react to derogatory terms not because they wish to create a saint but because they see the potential value in teens and young adults who've made a couple of mistakes but who are willing to or are working towards turning their lives around; derogatory terms such as "thug", "skittles", et al perpetuate the attitude present in a significant portion of our society of "once a criminal, always a criminal".

Not too mention the fact that the relative safety and anonymity of the internet has become the refuge of the non-politically correct. Safely behind their monitors and keyboards they attempt to push envelopes and puff their their e-chests with their non-PC and juvenile vocabulary.

 

[kinev]

Why anybody is defending this thug is totally beyond me. He got his justice.


Since "thug" is a now widely recognized code word for blacks whose actions you don't like, you are no longer allowed to use this word as a cover for your racist views. Not . . . one . . . more . . . time.


Perknose
Forum Director

While I'm not familiar with Spidey's posting history that is referenced, can we get some clarification here? Is it only Spidey that isn't "allowed" to use the term in question? Is it only Spidey in the context of this thread? Is it only him in the context of this case? Is it only him in the context of a specific race?

Are we all not "allowed" to use the term in question? Are we only forbidden from assigning the term to this case? Are specific races exempt from being labeled this term or is it a blanket banning of the word?

Again, while I am not familiar with the other things Spidey has posted, the term in question 100% fits the person he assigns it to. As others have already pointed out, your contention that the term "is a now widely recognized code word for blacks" seems to be wrong. You may mean that the way Spidey uses it is recognized, but you are not clear about that. "widely recognized" implies that equating a specific race with the term in question extends well beyond Spidey.

If we could get a list of what normal definitions of words that we are "allowed" to use with what races, sexes, genders, etc. that would really help clear up some confusion! The obvious racial slurs would, of course, be included (understandably). But, if we can get a sticky with what innocuous terms we are not "allowed" to use in reference to specific races, I think we could have a much more appropriate discussion!

 

[werepossum]

Because certain people want that outcome so they can more easily push their agenda.

Agreed, but ivwshane makes a good point. Just as people pushing that agenda want such information repressed, the police are releasing only the information that helps make their case. This is not by accident, it's intentional, and in evaluating the case it's important to remember that anything exculpatory of Wilson is likely to be released whereas anything tending to incriminate Wilson is likely to be suppressed for as long as possible. Same for Brown; his family certainly won't willingly reveal any criminal past, but if allowed the police will reveal it. Their reasoning may even be completely altruistic (though I doubt it) but we should always remember that just as the Sharptons and Crumps of the world are trying to sell one view, so are the police trying to sell its opposite. Thus we have allegations of multiple witnesses totally supporting Wilson and allegations that Brown has a juvie Murder 2 rap. Both these things MAY be true, but leaking them certainly helps public perception of Wilson and as they are not official, can always be purely fabrication without damaging the official credibility when they never come up in trial.

I think it was important that we see the tape and learn of the robbery, but let's not ever forget that it was released solely because it helps the police's case.

 

[nehalem256]

Would that be the same people that only released a video and no other evidence?


You stupid fucks are nothing but hypocrites.

What other evidence would you want them to release?

Also, it was pretty much necessary to counter stories that were being put out about him:

Neighbors described Brown as quiet and respectful — a "good boy," who "was never in trouble," said Sharon Johnson, 58, who lives just a little ways down the street. Johnson said Brown would frequently stop to chat.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...wn-Profile-of-black-teenager-shot-in-Missouri

So if you already have people telling a story about how Brown was just a "good boy", who was "never in trouble" I think the fact that he was literally committing strong arm robbery minutes before being shot is awfully important don't you?

 

[ivwshane]

What other evidence would you want them to release?

Also, it was pretty much necessary to counter stories that were being put out about him:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...wn-Profile-of-black-teenager-shot-in-Missouri

So if you already have people telling a story about how Brown was just a "good boy", who was "never in trouble" I think the fact that he was literally committing strong arm robbery minutes before being shot is awfully important don't you?

Why is it necessary to counter "other stories already put out"? What does these other "stories" have to do with an official police investigation?

The police should have released zero info until the investigation was done or they should have released all of it. What else could they release? Hmm...I don't know, how about official witness testimony? How about 911 calls and the dispatch calls?

 

[nehalem256]

Why is it necessary to counter "other stories already put out"? What does these other "stories" have to do with an official police investigation?

The police should have released zero info until the investigation was done or they should have released all of it. What else could they release? Hmm...I don't know, how about official witness testimony? How about 911 calls and the dispatch calls?

So you don't see how the family/media effectively lying about the shot teen is something that should be countered?

Having a false narrative of how some sweet little innocent teen got shot doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

We have seen this time and time again. Just like in Detroit with the little black girl who got shot after "car troubles". Those car troubles of course turned out to be trashing her car were extremely drunk.

Maybe the media should stop spinning false narratives in order to stir up racial discontent? :hmm:

 

[LegendKiller]

Too simplistic. People react to derogatory terms not because they wish to create a saint but because they see the potential value in teens and young adults who've made a couple of mistakes but who are willing to or are working towards turning their lives around; derogatory terms such as "thug", "skittles", et al perpetuate the attitude present in a significant portion of our society of "once a criminal, always a criminal".

Not too mention the fact that the relative safety and anonymity of the internet has become the refuge of the non-politically correct. Safely behind their monitors and keyboards they attempt to push envelopes and puff their their e-chests with their non-PC and juvenile vocabulary.

Bullshit - they don't see value at all, they see their failure and their refusal to accept that they all had a part in it. The parents refuse to see how they failed as parents. In TM's case we saw his father thinking he was failing but they set them selves up in this situation. It's avoiding accountability in their failure as parents, and society, to advocate something other than gangs, drugs, and violence.

They don't think this kid was turning himself around, they accept him for a gang member and are covering for him rather than telling the truth. Snitches Get Stitches.

It's why they vilify Cosby but accept a race baiting huckster like Sharpton.

 

[cubby1223]

Hooray! We have something new to be outraged about! Because, OUTRAGE! I love the smell of outrage in the morning!

Would that be the same people that only released a video and no other evidence?


You stupid fucks are nothing but hypocrites.

Just so you never forget you are one of the largest hypocrites here as well.

As for your persistent badgering of pcgeek - there is a reason why no one is answering your question. And it's not because you are the king shit of the forum. You're asking a question where the only responses you can get here are guesses, not definitive answers. Some people are not interested in playing the guessing game, especially on questions that don't hold significance, and come from a user who is highly disrespectful towards others. Go ask the person who holds the information you seek rather than stroking your ego in yet another one of your failed attempts to win an argument through incessant insulting.

 

[cubby1223]

You can give examples all you want......but this word "thug" when Spidey uses it is racial in context and nature......
When you use this word it most likely means all the various definitions......

Except those examples clearly show it was not racial.

Ok, then what was he talking about when he used the term "skittles"??? You have to take it in context of the poster and for someone that has been vacationed numerous times for outright blatant racism it's not hard to tell what he's doing. In fact, someone else on the forum defined thug as someone with darker skin not too long ago as well.

I actually honestly believe if a white gang banger were eating skittles Spidey would use the term on that person too.

Cliven Bundy and his gang were thugs.

Cliven Bundy did not roam around threatening other people. I don't agree with what Bundy was doing letting his cattle graze on federal lands, nor did I agree with how Fox News fell in love with him - but I'm not stuck up enough to insist skin color was the only difference in these situations.

 

[ivwshane]

Hooray! We have something new to be outraged about! Because, OUTRAGE! I love the smell of outrage in the morning!




Just so you never forget you are one of the largest hypocrites here as well.

As for your persistent badgering of pcgeek - there is a reason why no one is answering your question. And it's not because you are the king shit of the forum. You're asking a question where the only responses you can get here are guesses, not definitive answers. Some people are not interested in playing the guessing game, especially on questions that don't hold significance, and come from a user who is highly disrespectful towards others. Go ask the person who holds the information you seek rather than stroking your ego in yet another one of your failed attempts to win an argument through incessant insulting.

Really because the question I posed pcgeek was only about opinion. You must hold my opinion pretty highly, highly enough that you commented on it and not only that but apparently you've got my post history memorized.

Lol! Fuck off!

 

[pcgeek11]

I would have preferred to release all or nothing. Now feel free to answer my question.

I agree that everything should be open and public.

As had been stated numerous times before, this video shows somewhat the mindset of the young man in the moments shortly before the shooting. Some of the more vocal residents claims of the young man having a fine moral character and on and on were shown to be simply untrue or gross exaggerations.

Now fair is fair: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...en-wilson-the-officer-who-shot-michael-brown/

A lot of information was also released about Officer Wilson also. Some attempts to denigrate his personality... Where was the outrage about that? Right there wasn't any.

I believe ALL of the FACTs should be released and open. I also do not have any issues with any Facts that have been released. It has not been one sided at all.

The video of MB speaks volumes however. And before you claim that I am advocating that MB should have been shot for the robbery, let me say I am not saying anything remotely like that. I am saying that it showed his mindset immediately before the shooting and it isn't pretty.

 

[werepossum]

Bullshit - they don't see value at all, they see their failure and their refusal to accept that they all had a part in it. The parents refuse to see how they failed as parents. In TM's case we saw his father thinking he was failing but they set them selves up in this situation. It's avoiding accountability in their failure as parents, and society, to advocate something other than gangs, drugs, and violence.

They don't think this kid was turning himself around, they accept him for a gang member and are covering for him rather than telling the truth. Snitches Get Stitches.

It's why they vilify Cosby but accept a race baiting huckster like Sharpton.

I think Alzan has a point. Their loved one has been gunned down - naturally they are going to want him presented (and will remember him) as a saint. How many times have you known a woman who referred to her husband as "that sumbitch", yet when he dies she remembers him as a saint? For me, that's the rule rather than the exception. Surely all these people don't revere gangbangers, they just choose to remember the good, which everyone has. And remember, except for the robbery we don't actually know anything bad about Brown. Maybe he was a saint who just happened to have a really bad day that cost him his life. A young man doing something violent and out of character isn't exactly something new. I'd guess we've all done stupid things we regret doing, some of which could have landed us in jail.

You have a good point about Cosby and Sharpton, but I think that's human nature rather than evil. People naturally prefer to think of themselves as oppressed rather than failures due to their own shortcomings. And Jim Crow ended within my lifetime - how does one get over not being able to get into a decent school just because now the discrimination is over? How is one not affected when one's parents were barely able to read and thus unable to help with homework - especially when working two menial jobs to put food on the table? I admire Cosby greatly and believe that if more people followed his guidance rather than Sharpton's we'd all be in a better place, but let's not pretend that Sharpton springing up was an aberration. Sharpton and those like him sprang up because of an honest need, and if he's morphed into race baiting, that doesn't mean that need has completely vanished, it just means it thankfully isn't common enough to pay the bills.

We all need to be held to the same standards, but that doesn't include pretending we all had the same start in life.

Hooray! We have something new to be outraged about! Because, OUTRAGE! I love the smell of outrage in the morning!

Just so you never forget you are one of the largest hypocrites here as well.

As for your persistent badgering of pcgeek - there is a reason why no one is answering your question. And it's not because you are the king shit of the forum. You're asking a question where the only responses you can get here are guesses, not definitive answers. Some people are not interested in playing the guessing game, especially on questions that don't hold significance, and come from a user who is highly disrespectful towards others. Go ask the person who holds the information you seek rather than stroking your ego in yet another one of your failed attempts to win an argument through incessant insulting.

lol Foamy, foamy outrage. I am outraged; therefore I matter.

 

[waggy]

Just so i can keep up on what words we can use or not use.

is thug the new savages?

 

[rudeguy]

Way to warp the language to fit your agenda. Bravo!




You should know about warping the language to fit agendas.

Your continuing to callout moderators here is not going to bode well for you.

Either stop and follow the rules, or find somewhere else to post.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

To be fair, if a mod posts a comment in public, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to respond in public. Especially when its something like this. I've never seen any rule that you can't reply to a mod comment. Calling out a mod is one thing, but Perky posted as a mod so there is no callout.

E2 you and me go way back. You know that there are some of us that feel its necessary to speak up when we see something that we think is wrong. Having perk label all thugs as black people is wrong. Sinsear was just pointing that out. No he didn't do it in the most polite way possible but no one has ever said we had to address Perky as if he was royalty.

 

[Pens1566]

I actually honestly believe if a white gang banger were eating skittles Spidey would use the term on that person too.

Then I have some beachfront property in Kansas for you.