Ferguson: Part Deux - protests now starting

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Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
The civil rights movement was such an amazing thing, I mean, I would have LOVED to have fought for that cause back then. People want to bear that cross, and when history looked back at the civil rights movement, it was HUGE.


People are NOT going to look back at Michael Brown and say, "These marches....they meant something" "Our worlds changed after we marched for Michael Brown." The circumstances at this point are UNKNOWN. At best, it is a NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. What the fuck are we destroying stores over that for? I don't know. Black people are gunning each other down in scores in St. Louis and we don't collect $1.00 or lift 1 finger to help that situation? meh........

The circumstances at this point are UNKNOWN.

At best, it is a NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.

Sooooooooooooo its not unknown then?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Or, unless, you're not an idiot. If someone just committed a robbery, how do you think they are going to react to a police officer approaching them soon after? That could have contributed to how Brown may have acted during the altercation that ended in him being shot. We don't know. But, claiming they have nothing related is dishonest at best.


The problem I have is we got a bunch of idiotic TV coverage of shit like the Brown funeral, with of course, the big race baiters in attendance going on about how great of a person he was. They are being incredibly dishonest with that. Had they come out and said "He might have done some bad things, but he didn't deserve to be gunned down like a dog in the streets," I'd have more sympathy for the situation. However, trying to paint this guy as a fucking civil rights hero is beyond stupid.

And, then we get the riots. Which just further displays the fucked up situation. If you were so oppressed as a member of the black community in Ferguson, destroying local, black community owned, businesses to vent your frustration just removes from that issue. Have a peaceful protest; organize a sit in. That shit works, not being violent and disorderly. You are only fueling negative public opinion and giving ammunition to those that oppose you.

Eyewitness accounts of the shooting-

http://www.theroot.com/articles/cul...ess_accounts_of_michael_brown_s_shooting.html

The rest? Attempted whitewash & obfuscation. He's no Angel! They rioted! Blah, blah, blah.

Not that you'd notice, given how well you slather it on.

I don't pretend to know what happened. What I'm sure of is that the relationship between the community & the police was clearly strained beforehand & that the shooting caused it to boil over.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Two steps forward, ten steps backwards? And the two steps are based on an if ? Doesn't sound like good progress to me.
Could be, but sometimes you don't have the tools to make progress nice and neat. Sometimes fiery violence is the only tool at your disposal.

Of course, fiery violence is usually something done BY tools rather than something done AS a tool, but perhaps not always.

Lovely distortion. The cop had no knowledge that Brown had stolen the cigars, iirc. Given that, the shooting was unrelated.

Well, unless you're trying to link the events together to tell a different story.
Sweet Lord, when it comes to reading comprehension you never fail to fail. My point was that we don't have enough information to consider Brown a bad person, NOT the effect (or lack thereof) that the theft had on the shooting.

On the very slight chance that you aren't simply a buggy piece of code written to search out catch phrases and vomit forth the tabulated piece of proggie foam, please consider visiting the Pet Partners nearest you. I'm sure if you just speak with them for a short time they will understand the need and provide you with an appropriate service animal that will read for you and explain - no, that obviously won't work. An appropriate service animal that will read for you and type an appropriate response. Teaching an animal to read, comprehend, and type has to be orders of magnitude easier than actually teaching it to explain anything to you.

The circumstances at this point are UNKNOWN.

At best, it is a NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.

Sooooooooooooo its not unknown then?
:D

At best it's a justified homicide, which is not a crime; at worst it's second degree murder. Maybe even first degree murder; juries have been known to accept the argument of near-instant premeditation.

Unknown means unknown, obviously.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Lovely distortion. The cop had no knowledge that Brown had stolen the cigars, iirc. Given that, the shooting was unrelated.

Well, unless you're trying to link the events together to tell a different story.

Nobody said he knew. But the point, which apparently is having trouble passing through into your thick skull, is that Brown knew about the robbery and he knew he was approached by the police. It is entirely reasonable to believe that Brown is under the impression if he complies with the police he will be arrested.

Of all the people who live in Ferguson, why was Brown the one shot by Wilson? Pure random chance? Why was Brown shot and not the guy who was with him?

Is death an appropriate punishment for stealing cigars? No. Is death an appropriate response for imposing an immediate threat to the officer's life? Yes. Did Brown pose an immediate threat to the officer's life? This is precisely where the robbery factors into the equation, because there is real motive for Brown to not act like a normal person on a normal stop. And that's what the grand jury has to decide on.

The point has been repeated and clarified numerous times. Yet you continue to believe what you randomly choose to believe. Beating one's head against a brick wall is more enjoyable than having a conversation with you.
 
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CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
The point has been repeated and clarified numerous times. Yet you continue to believe what you randomly choose to believe. Beating one's head against a brick wall is more enjoyable than having a conversation with you.

That is some irony.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91

I normally appreciate jon stewart and I still like to watch him, but I was upset after watching his bits on Ferguson. I understand his points....black men are more likely to be at the receiving end of police shootings...but it's NOT as simple as he makes it seem to be.

Also, he apparently had no clue what was actually going on during the riots and why police responded the way they did. This wasn't some kumbai-ya parade of children, it started as a RIOT.

And it is a LEGITIMATE question why we get so offended by this white vs black shooting when blacks are killing themselves by scores. The deaths are all rooted in violence, it is a shared problem.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
That is some irony.

We disagree on opinions of motives and behavior based on different experiences throughout our lives.

But what Jhhnn is doing is saying other people believe in facts they have specifically stated they do not, in order to have something, anything, to argue against. That's just plain stupidity.

You were one amongst several who took the Ferguson story and jumped to a conclusion before the facts were known. I am under no obligation to comfort you when you are not acting rationally.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
I normally appreciate jon stewart and I still like to watch him, but I was upset after watching his bits on Ferguson. I understand his points....black men are more likely to be at the receiving end of police shootings...but it's NOT as simple as he makes it seem to be.

Also, he apparently had no clue what was actually going on during the riots and why police responded the way they did. This wasn't some kumbai-ya parade of children, it started as a RIOT.

And it is a LEGITIMATE question why we get so offended by this white vs black shooting when blacks are killing themselves by scores. The deaths are all rooted in violence, it is a shared problem.

Yawn!

Your ignorance doesn't mean outrage isn't happening, just because you aren't aware of people getting upset about black on black crime doesn't mean people aren't getting upset.

Your ignorance of the police and black community and the affects of the police's behavior reflects your simplified reasoning.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,931
1,129
126
I normally appreciate jon stewart and I still like to watch him, but I was upset after watching his bits on Ferguson. I understand his points....black men are more likely to be at the receiving end of police shootings...but it's NOT as simple as he makes it seem to be.

Also, he apparently had no clue what was actually going on during the riots and why police responded the way they did. This wasn't some kumbai-ya parade of children, it started as a RIOT.

And it is a LEGITIMATE question why we get so offended by this white vs black shooting when blacks are killing themselves by scores. The deaths are all rooted in violence, it is a shared problem.

The problem here's people listen to the media like it's the gospel. And said people get angry and accuse Sharpton & Jackson of only coming out when white people kill black people. Both are directly involved in countless summits about black on black crime each year. But the media never brings this fact up. They make them look like media whores who doesn't care and are just doing it for exposure. The media, and white people in general don't care to report on that because it's not important. I blame the media for blowing incidents like the one in Ferguson out of proportion. They remind me of the kids who purposely poke at a wasp nest when they see one to get the wasps all riled up.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
I normally appreciate jon stewart and I still like to watch him, but I was upset after watching his bits on Ferguson. I understand his points....black men are more likely to be at the receiving end of police shootings...but it's NOT as simple as he makes it seem to be.

Also, he apparently had no clue what was actually going on during the riots and why police responded the way they did. This wasn't some kumbai-ya parade of children, it started as a RIOT.

And it is a LEGITIMATE question why we get so offended by this white vs black shooting when blacks are killing themselves by scores. The deaths are all rooted in violence, it is a shared problem.

I know being dishonest is your thing, but it didn't start as a riot at all. Anyone who didn't just absorb full on rightwing news would know that.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
If the shops/business owners in Ferguson do not get weapons to get ready to protect themselves/their love ones, and their businesses, they are fooling themselves.


"Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Better have it and not need it >>>>>>>>>> need it and not have it.


Better yet, put a few signs of "You Loot, We Shoot" and "Keep Your Hands Up, Do Not Loot".
 
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Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
The problem here's people listen to the media like it's the gospel. And said people get angry and accuse Sharpton & Jackson of only coming out when white people kill black people. Both are directly involved in countless summits about black on black crime each year. But the media never brings this fact up.

Please link these summits for the rest of us.

You decided to say "countless" so i won't hold you to that many, but i figure 10-15 would be a fair number seen as you used "countless".

So a link to 10-15 summits on black on black crime in 2014 for the good Reverend would be a good learning point for the rest of us.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
I know being dishonest is your thing, but it didn't start as a riot at all. Anyone who didn't just absorb full on rightwing news would know that.

In my passion, I should have said it started as an angry mob...it did NOT start as a riot.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
Please link these summits for the rest of us.

You decided to say "countless" so i won't hold you to that many, but i figure 10-15 would be a fair number seen as you used "countless".

So a link to 10-15 summits on black on black crime in 2014 for the good Reverend would be a good learning point for the rest of us.

You can start here if you like:

http://m.theatlantic.com/national/a...are-not-ignoring-black-on-black-crime/378629/

I count about 10 references in that article.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The problem here's people listen to the media like it's the gospel. And said people get angry and accuse Sharpton & Jackson of only coming out when white people kill black people. Both are directly involved in countless summits about black on black crime each year. But the media never brings this fact up. They make them look like media whores who doesn't care and are just doing it for exposure. The media, and white people in general don't care to report on that because it's not important. I blame the media for blowing incidents like the one in Ferguson out of proportion. They remind me of the kids who purposely poke at a wasp nest when they see one to get the wasps all riled up.
Lot of truth to that, but it's undeniable that Sharpton's & Jackson's bread and butter is when whites kill blacks. Especially whites with deep pockets. You might find either spending an afternoon at a black-on-black violence conference, but they are not typically out organizing protests, marches and vigils, committing weeks to the cause. Doesn't mean they don't care if blacks kill blacks, just means that isn't their business model. More of a hobby, really.

Bit about the media blowing things out of proportion is spot-on. Not only is the media in the business of sensationalism, but that sensationalism also alerts the various anarchists, anti-cop extremists, and just plain criminals where there will likely be some good looting. Many of those arrested for violence or looting are out-of-towners just come for the riots. Still, if the media doesn't publicize these things and they honestly need to change, that change becomes very difficult because nobody is paying attention. Kind of a rock and a hard place.