Feinstein and Chambliss introducing bill to preserve NSA abuse

[BoberFett]

LOL fence sitters... Sitting up on the fence tossing shit at either side while pretending to be recused from any blame or cares. No one takes anyone who has a fence post up their ass seriously...

I'm not a fence sitter. I vote for a third party. You're part of the problem too, believing that anybody who doesn't fall in line with the false two party choice is a fence sitter. I'd rather have a fence post up my ass than a donkey or elephant dick down my throat as you do.

 

[dank69]

^You don't sound like much of a libertarian, you sound like a typical statist.

Which is why I would never call myself a libertarian. Of course, I would never call myself a statist either. I'm sure to true "libertarians," every Tom, Dick or Harry that doesn't think income tax should be abolished seems like a statist.

 

[BoberFett]

Which is why I would never call myself a libertarian. Of course, I would never call myself a statist either. I'm sure to true "libertarians," every Tom, Dick or Harry that doesn't think income tax should be abolished seems like a statist.

Meh, government needs income to perform required functions. You'll find lots of different ideas among libertarians as to the best method to generate said income.

What you will not find are libertarians who believe income tax is a good tool for a massive federal government to use for pushing it's social agenda, as statists do.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Nobody knows what's better for us than our government....didn't all of you know that? It's all for our protection.

Feinstein is yet another self appointed aristocrat that needs thrown out on her ear. The sheep will continue to vote for her though as she certainly has the weak minded masses for the votes. The same applies for Chambliss. California can just fall into the ocean.

 

[Lithium381]

Meh, government needs income to perform required functions. You'll find lots of different ideas among libertarians as to the best method to generate said income.

What you will not find are libertarians who believe income tax is a good tool for a massive federal government to use for pushing it's social agenda, as statists do.

Taxing income is a form of slavery. We work 4 months out of the year for Uncle Sam! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day That said, I accept that /some/ level of income tax is likely necessary to fund the State.

 

[Lithium381]

A bit more on topic, neither of the two major parties is good for anything other than the status quo.

 

[umbrella39]

I'm not a fence sitter. I vote for a third party.

The child's table awaits you... try to keep your hands to yourself gramps... "Third party voters" Republicans too afraid to admit in public they are republicans...

 

[bradley]

I wanted to say that I appreciate your admission that your use of the word abuse is your opinion. I think it's rather rare that people don't conflate their personal opinion to an absolute truth. I myself don't have an opinion because I can't know if the abuse we see is worth the benefits of some unknown potentially averted terrorist attack. I guess it's easy to err on the side of freedom prior to being blown to pieces. The capacity to rationally assess risk is not a well known human skill, in my opinion. I do know that the folk who died in 9/11 don't get to have an opinion. Maybe all such matters should have expiration dates and require a majority vote of the people.

What has the NSA done with Moonbeam?

 

[Genx87]

I wanted to say that I appreciate your admission that your use of the word abuse is your opinion. I think it's rather rare that people don't conflate their personal opinion to an absolute truth. I myself don't have an opinion because I can't know if the abuse we see is worth the benefits of some unknown potentially averted terrorist attack. I guess it's easy to err on the side of freedom prior to being blown to pieces. The capacity to rationally assess risk is not a well known human skill, in my opinion. I do know that the folk who died in 9/11 don't get to have an opinion. Maybe all such matters should have expiration dates and require a majority vote of the people.

Look who is invoking 9-11 to crush liberty. Moonbeam don't leave your house. It is a dangerous world. Leaving your house may not be worth losing your life.

 

[Fenixgoon]

being a new resident to CA (los angeles), i hope i have the opportunity to vote feinstein out of office. not sure what districts she represents.

 

[Attic]

A bit more on topic, neither of the two major parties is good for anything other than the status quo.

This. The trick is convincing folks that a vote can change the status quo. It's genius, the vote is cast and the status quo maintained at the same time one feels he finished doing his part to change it. Great way to expel social angst and unrest, like a massive jerk off session every two years and then everyone rolls over back to sleep.

Good thread.

 

[Lithium381]

This. The trick is convincing folks that a vote can change the status quo. It's genius, the vote is cast and the status quo maintained at the same time one feels he finished doing his part to change it. Great way to expel social angst and unrest, like a massive jerk off session every two years and then everyone rolls over back to sleep.

Good thread.

the Supreme Court and its ability to rule something as either Constitutional or Unconstitutional is a sham as well. Writing laws through judicial 'interpretation'. . . Most people simply accept it and it appeases the cries of abuse. "Well we have a system of checks and balances and separation of powers in place, so we're safe! I guess those 9 unelected people have the constitution and individual freedom at heart"

 

[Zaap]

We work 4 months out of the year for Uncle Sam! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day

What's always been funny (in an absurd way) to me is that statists will whine until they're blue in the face about the big evil corporations "forcing people to work for free!" but the very same people will cheerlead for the ULTIMATE fat-cats (the Federal leviathan) that actually does, every single year, force people to work for free for 4 months out of the year.

And then of course after people have worked for free for 4 months (how many years is that over the course of a career by the way?) they're not supposed to ever consider what the beloved government is doing with their money, how much debt they're creating with it, and how much of a bill they'll be sent for that debt as well as what they've already paid in. Nope, just raise taxes! (IE: let's all work for 5, 6, 7 months out of each year for free, massa needs more money!) Oh yes, and HATE with a passion whatever company actually pays you the paycheck. They're the evil ones. That's the statist nitwit mentality in a nutshell.

I'm a firm believer that income taxes should be changed from withholding taxes (a vile trick really) to a DIRECT bill you're sent at the end of the year. If most people actually got that money in their check and then had to pay a big lump sum to the federal fatcats, the subservient attitude so many people have would do a complete 180 REAL fast. "You want me to pay you WHAT??? Four months worth of my wages? The F!!??!!"

Yeah, and beyond that- it's not enough. Just pay more. And don't pay any attention what's done with it, just gleefully pay the bill for all the new debt being created with it.

We'd go from a nation where half the dimwits are worshiping the government massa, to a nation of people crowding outside the capital with torches and pitchforks wanting to know just what the F is being done with all that money.

being a new resident to CA (los angeles), i hope i have the opportunity to vote feinstein out of office. not sure what districts she represents.

She's a senator unfortunately. But PLEASE do help to vote her out, unlikely as that chance may be. (Our other lameass senator as well.) And welcome to LA.

 

[Matt1970]

I have always had libertarian leanings, but the Libertarian party is misguided.

Ya, you are about as much a libertarian as I am the Pope.

 

[Agent11]

the Supreme Court and its ability to rule something as either Constitutional or Unconstitutional is a sham as well. Writing laws through judicial 'interpretation'. . . Most people simply accept it and it appeases the cries of abuse. "Well we have a system of checks and balances and separation of powers in place, so we're safe! I guess those 9 unelected people have the constitution and individual freedom at heart"

Being elected isn't the be all end all in government, for instance the Senate used to be appointed by state legislature. . . Personally I would enjoy it if we went back to such a system.
(It would be a great step in restoring some power to the states, which would help check the federal government.)

Democracy is over rated. It has it's place for sure, but mob rule should not be trusted. All the people crying 'DEMOCRACY NOW!' Are idiots.

 

[Matt1970]

It is getting increasingly harder to tell if there even is a less of the 2 evils.

 

[Agent11]

Yea, that is why I registered Republican. Only potential presidential candidate I feel pretty strongly isn't a shameless tool of the status quo is Paul. . . And I intend to vote for him during the ReRe primary.
After watching Kerry, Hillary, and Biden in action it wasn't a hard decision.

Some of his views aren't ideal for me, but I'm not voting for a dictator. I'm sure the Senate would keep him in check.

Congress is much easier to get a bearing on though as it's generally easier to talk to a congressman/candidate than a president/candidate, and you can more easily participate in your state parties and help candidates you prefer.

 

[kage69]

I cant stand either of them, hurry up and retire fools.

 

[Lithium381]

What's always been funny (in an absurd way) to me is that statists will whine until they're blue in the face about the big evil corporations "forcing people to work for free!" but the very same people will cheerlead for the ULTIMATE fat-cats (the Federal leviathan) that actually does, every single year, force people to work for free for 4 months out of the year.

And then of course after people have worked for free for 4 months (how many years is that over the course of a career by the way?) they're not supposed to ever consider what the beloved government is doing with their money, how much debt they're creating with it, and how much of a bill they'll be sent for that debt as well as what they've already paid in. Nope, just raise taxes! (IE: let's all work for 5, 6, 7 months out of each year for free, massa needs more money!) Oh yes, and HATE with a passion whatever company actually pays you the paycheck. They're the evil ones. That's the statist nitwit mentality in a nutshell.

I'm a firm believer that income taxes should be changed from withholding taxes (a vile trick really) to a DIRECT bill you're sent at the end of the year. If most people actually got that money in their check and then had to pay a big lump sum to the federal fatcats, the subservient attitude so many people have would do a complete 180 REAL fast. "You want me to pay you WHAT??? Four months worth of my wages? The F!!??!!"

Yeah, and beyond that- it's not enough. Just pay more. And don't pay any attention what's done with it, just gleefully pay the bill for all the new debt being created with it.

We'd go from a nation where half the dimwits are worshiping the government massa, to a nation of people crowding outside the capital with torches and pitchforks wanting to know just what the F is being done with all that money.



She's a senator unfortunately. But PLEASE do help to vote her out, unlikely as that chance may be. (Our other lameass senator as well.) And welcome to LA.

Oddly enough that was started during WWII if i remember my history correctly to expedite the revenue. I agree, it hides the total since it's automatic and people are conditioned to accept it. I actually wanted to have NO witholdings over the course of the year and pay lump sum at the end but there are apparently penalties for doing so, if the amount is over $8000 or it has to be within some threshold of your prior year witholdings. That's not very fair, Uncle Sam!

It's the same amount over the course of the year one way or another(a lot of people don't seem to get that! they don't understand the brackets either and marginal rate, but that's a different matter!) but I'm expected to give an interest free loan on taxes, yet if i owe, there are penalties/interest due! Hypocritical! Also, having them calculate it for us and then verifying it would save a collective thousands of hours of time spent preparing it!

The NSA serves(ed) a purpose and I'm sorta sure it started with good intentions. . . but as with all good intentions in the government. . . . :whiste: