Feingold and Spector go at it

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Wow. What a shock. A purely political proposal passes on a partyline vote. (Damn, I missed the record for most "P" words in a sentence by one!)

It's that time again boys and girls. Time to bring up motions that you (read politician) know has about as much chance of passing as Zen does of voting Democrat. This time, since immigration doesn't seem to have the traction with the base as they thought it would, it's time to resort to the one thing that ALL good Radical Right Christian Conservatives can agree on....

Bigotry of Gays!!!

PSA for those that are comprehension challanged: I am not claiming all Repubs nor all Christians are in favor of this, that is why I wrote it as I did (Radical Right Christian Conservatives). I hope this helps.

WASHINGTON - A Senate committee approved a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage Thursday, after a shouting match that ended when one Democrat strode out and the Republican chairman bid him "good riddance."

"I don't need to be lectured by you. You are no more a protector of the Constitution than am I," Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., shouted after Sen. Russ Feingold (news, bio, voting record) declared his opposition to the amendment, his affinity for the Constitution and his intention to leave the meeting.

"If you want to leave, good riddance," Specter finished.

"I've enjoyed your lecture, too, Mr. Chairman," replied Feingold, D-Wis., who is considering a run for president in 2008. "See ya."


Amid increasing partisan tension over President Bush's judicial nominees and domestic wiretapping, the panel voted along party lines to send the constitutional amendment ? which would prohibit states from recognizing same-sex marriages ? to the full Senate, where it stands little chance of passing.

Democrats complained that bringing up the amendment is a purely political move designed to appeal to the GOP's conservative base in this year of midterm elections. Under the domed ceiling of the ornate and historic President's Room off the Senate floor, senators voted 10-8 to send the measure forward.

Among Feingold's objections was Specter's decision to hold the vote in the President's Room, where access by the general public is restricted, instead of in the panel's usual home in the Dirksen Senate Office Building.


Specter later said he would have been willing to hold the session in the usual room had he thought doing so would change votes.

Not all those who voted "yes" support the amendment, however. Specter said he is "totally opposed" to it, but felt it deserved a debate in the Senate.

"Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman," reads the measure, which would require approval by two-thirds of Congress and three-fourths of the states.

"Neither this Constitution, nor the constitution of any State, shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman," it says.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has scheduled a vote on the proposed amendment the week of June 5.

The issue has ignited a cultural and political debate over what constitutes marriage and the legal rights of gay partners.

Earlier this week, Georgia announced it will appeal a judge's ruling that struck down its voter-approved ban on gay marriage. Gov. Sonny Perdue said he will call a special legislative session if the state Supreme Court doesn't rule on the issue soon.

The Georgia constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage was approved by 76 percent of the state's voters in November 2004. On Tuesday, however, Fulton County Superior Court Judge Constance C. Russell ruled the measure violated the Georgia constitution's single-subject rules for ballot questions.

The issue has been on the political radar across the nation for more than two years.

On Election Day in 2004, a presidential year, initiatives on gay marriage and civil unions were on the ballot in 11 states, driven in part by opposition to the Massachusetts state Supreme Judicial Court's recognition of same-sex marriage and Republican calculations that the issue would send conservative voters to the polls.

I wonder if there would have been as much willingness to bring this up if there was more coverage or public exposure? Guess we'll never know.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
You know what really ticks me off about this?

It's the fact that they are trying to pass a *Constitutional* amendment *LIMITING* rights of a minority group. If you want to descriminate against them personally, or a state wants to ban it, then that is their issue.

However, using the document of *FREEDOM* to limit freedoms is disgusting. Every current amendment grants freedoms, those that didn't were removed.

For Specter to say that he is anything but a Constitutional illiterate is incorrect.

Do these people actually study history? Do any of them ever read the biographies or readings of Paine, Madison, Jefferson, or others? Do they even visit the memorials to men *MUCH* better than they ever will be?

It's doubtful, they are too full of themselves.

 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Let them debate it on the floor. Let the biggots and gay bashers go on record and let it fail in public.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Those are both Senators I like and respect, I don't think their argument had anything to do with the marriage amendment issue. Feingold on some occasions has not shown due deference to Spector, who is the chairman and has the power to make decisions like where they meet.

Your statement about public exposure is puzzling though, I doubt it would be possible to get more public exposure than what happened. And if the Senate debates this the week of Jun 6th, I imagine the whole country will be in a tizzy.

I agree with you the Republicans are doing this for poltical gain; but it is really the fault of the American people if such a tactic works, like it did in 2004.

As a Democrat, who supports gay rights, I can say it bugs me that the gay rights lobby insists on pushing the envelope too far, like the gays in the military issue, that weakened Clinton's position with Congress before he even took office. And probably cost the country a chance to have a sensible energy policy, some form of universal healthcare, and gave Congress to the Republicans.

This constant attempt to push the gay agenda has weakened Democrat's ability to get elected, and has hurt lots of people as a result, and it hasn't helped gays either.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Tom

As a Democrat, who supports gay rights, I can say it bugs me that the gay rights lobby insists on pushing the envelope too far, like the gays in the military issue, that weakened Clinton's position with Congress before he even took office. And probably cost the country a chance to have a sensible energy policy, some form of universal healthcare, and gave Congress to the Republicans.

This constant attempt to push the gay agenda has weakened Democrat's ability to get elected, and has hurt lots of people as a result, and it hasn't helped gays either.

What "gay agenda"? The one that is fighting to get equal CONSTITUTIONAL rights?

Would you have stated that the blacks are trying to hard to push their civil rights agenda and is costing (insert whatever group here) votes or popularity?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I just don't understand this whole gay bashing thing.

As a male happily married to a female, I guess I am in an overwelming majority---but never in my entire life have I ever thought that someone elses same sex marriage would in any way hurt my marriage. And if someone prefers to commit to someone of the same sex, it may well be socially desirable.

I have no idea if there is a genetic base to homosexuality or not--but I am guessing that the former arguement will unlimately to proven. But something on the order of 1 in 25 to 1 in 50 of America's sons and daughters are in this boat. --or the world's sons and daughters for that matter.

And America has but two choices

1. Kill them immeditely when the behavoir first shows.

2. Love them despite the fact that they are different. Let them live productive lives of dignity.

I have no respect for those too sqeemish to kill them all---but who dedicate their lives to making a tiny minority that never hurt or threatened them as miserable as possible.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Specter's logic is kind of odd . . .

Not all those who voted "yes" support the amendment, however. Specter said he is "totally opposed" to it, but felt it deserved a debate in the Senate.

Why is this "religious" issue more deserving than say an abortion amendment? When is Specter going to move that one along? How about an adultery amendment? Working on the Sabbath? Taking the Lord's name in vain? A ban on pork . . . it's right there in the Bible!
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Tom

As a Democrat, who supports gay rights, I can say it bugs me that the gay rights lobby insists on pushing the envelope too far, like the gays in the military issue, that weakened Clinton's position with Congress before he even took office. And probably cost the country a chance to have a sensible energy policy, some form of universal healthcare, and gave Congress to the Republicans.

This constant attempt to push the gay agenda has weakened Democrat's ability to get elected, and has hurt lots of people as a result, and it hasn't helped gays either.

What "gay agenda"? The one that is fighting to get equal CONSTITUTIONAL rights?

Would you have stated that the blacks are trying to hard to push their civil rights agenda and is costing (insert whatever group here) votes or popularity?


I am talking about tactics, not what the desired outcome is. The civil rights movement succeeded because they focused on educating the public about the rightness of their cause, not by trying to force the public to accept change.

But since you mention it, please explain how marriage, or serving in the military, are Constitutional rights ?
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: Genx87
Ohh nothing like a fight between elites!

FIGHT!
FIGHT!
FIGHT!

</grabs a glove and slaps Genx87 with it>

I, sir, challenge you to a duel! ;)
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Tom

As a Democrat, who supports gay rights, I can say it bugs me that the gay rights lobby insists on pushing the envelope too far, like the gays in the military issue, that weakened Clinton's position with Congress before he even took office. And probably cost the country a chance to have a sensible energy policy, some form of universal healthcare, and gave Congress to the Republicans.

This constant attempt to push the gay agenda has weakened Democrat's ability to get elected, and has hurt lots of people as a result, and it hasn't helped gays either.

What "gay agenda"? The one that is fighting to get equal CONSTITUTIONAL rights?

Would you have stated that the blacks are trying to hard to push their civil rights agenda and is costing (insert whatever group here) votes or popularity?


I am talking about tactics, not what the desired outcome is. The civil rights movement succeeded because they focused on educating the public about the rightness of their cause, not by trying to force the public to accept change.

But since you mention it, please explain how marriage, or serving in the military, are Constitutional rights ?

In and of themselves, they aren't. However, the right of all to be treated and be seen equally under the law is. I give you the "Equal Protection Clause" of the 14th Amendment:

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If two people are allowed to marry and two others aren't, they are not being treated equally under the law therefore violating their constitutional rights.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Wow. What a shock. A purely political proposal passes on a partyline vote. (Damn, I missed the record for most "P" words in a sentence by one!)
purely PARTISAN political proposal passes on a partyline vote

There is your missing letter:disgust:

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You know what really ticks me off about this?

It's the fact that they are trying to pass a *Constitutional* amendment *LIMITING* rights of a minority group. If you want to descriminate against them personally, or a state wants to ban it, then that is their issue.

However, using the document of *FREEDOM* to limit freedoms is disgusting. Every current amendment grants freedoms, those that didn't were removed.

For Specter to say that he is anything but a Constitutional illiterate is incorrect.

Do these people actually study history? Do any of them ever read the biographies or readings of Paine, Madison, Jefferson, or others? Do they even visit the memorials to men *MUCH* better than they ever will be?

It's doubtful, they are too full of themselves.

They would be rolling in their graves at the thought of something as ridiculous as gay marraige.
 

bdude

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2004
1,645
0
76
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You know what really ticks me off about this?

It's the fact that they are trying to pass a *Constitutional* amendment *LIMITING* rights of a minority group. If you want to descriminate against them personally, or a state wants to ban it, then that is their issue.

However, using the document of *FREEDOM* to limit freedoms is disgusting. Every current amendment grants freedoms, those that didn't were removed.

For Specter to say that he is anything but a Constitutional illiterate is incorrect.

Do these people actually study history? Do any of them ever read the biographies or readings of Paine, Madison, Jefferson, or others? Do they even visit the memorials to men *MUCH* better than they ever will be?

It's doubtful, they are too full of themselves.

They would be rolling in their graves at the thought of something as ridiculous as gay marraige.

They would also be rolling in their graves at the thought that one President could annihilate millions at his will, but nevertheless times change.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You know what really ticks me off about this?

It's the fact that they are trying to pass a *Constitutional* amendment *LIMITING* rights of a minority group. If you want to descriminate against them personally, or a state wants to ban it, then that is their issue.

However, using the document of *FREEDOM* to limit freedoms is disgusting. Every current amendment grants freedoms, those that didn't were removed.

For Specter to say that he is anything but a Constitutional illiterate is incorrect.

Do these people actually study history? Do any of them ever read the biographies or readings of Paine, Madison, Jefferson, or others? Do they even visit the memorials to men *MUCH* better than they ever will be?

It's doubtful, they are too full of themselves.

They would be rolling in their graves at the thought of something as ridiculous as gay marraige.

Maybe, but unlike far too many politicians today, I suspect the founding fathers wouldn't feel the need to ban every behavior they personally didn't agree with. This concept seems to be a foreign one in this country, you suggest to people that MAYBE they don't have to use government as a tool to make everyone behave in a way you find personally acceptable and they stare at you like you have three heads.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You know what really ticks me off about this?

It's the fact that they are trying to pass a *Constitutional* amendment *LIMITING* rights of a minority group. If you want to descriminate against them personally, or a state wants to ban it, then that is their issue.

However, using the document of *FREEDOM* to limit freedoms is disgusting. Every current amendment grants freedoms, those that didn't were removed.

For Specter to say that he is anything but a Constitutional illiterate is incorrect.

Do these people actually study history? Do any of them ever read the biographies or readings of Paine, Madison, Jefferson, or others? Do they even visit the memorials to men *MUCH* better than they ever will be?

It's doubtful, they are too full of themselves.

They would be rolling in their graves at the thought of something as ridiculous as gay marraige.

Maybe, but unlike far too many politicians today, I suspect the founding fathers wouldn't feel the need to ban every behavior they personally didn't agree with. This concept seems to be a foreign one in this country, you suggest to people that MAYBE they don't have to use government as a tool to make everyone behave in a way you find personally acceptable and they stare at you like you have three heads.

You're absolutely correct; easily observed by our socialist programs.

I don't think the amendment is necessary though; no judge is so activist to force his will.