Feds sue Sherrif Joe, claim Racial profiling

[RabidMongoose]

You aren't from the US are you? I mean originally?

Here we have laws which the government must abide by when it issues what is effectively a warrant. Our government cannot get a warrant to search for "whatever". We have restraints to protect people we like, and yes, those we do not.

Tell me, if the government wanted to examine everything about you in order to find something for which you could be punished, would you send "everything"?

You would be quite foolish if you did.

Nevertheless, the Feds have the obligation (not if they want) to specify what documents are to be surrendered. That's a core principle of our law.

I wonder how the specificity requirements come into play when we're dealing between governmental groups...I wouldn't be surprised at all if he really has no viable defense against the federal government requesting these papers, unless they're looking into his actions and papers as a private citizen.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I think Beck should submit to such a search, but merely for my amusement

You're into watching anal cavity searches?! :whiste:

 

[ayabe]

Can't believe how hard you guys are slurping this Sherrif, he's overstepped his bounds many times and is now trying to fuck with the Feds. No police department has ever refused to cooperate with one of these investigations.

Guy is a piece of dogshit who it out of control and thinks he runs his own fiefdom. Fuck him and anyone supporting his extra-legal bullshit.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I wonder how the specificity requirements come into play when we're dealing between governmental groups...I wouldn't be surprised at all if he really has no viable defense against the federal government requesting these papers, unless they're looking into his actions and papers as a private citizen.

By that reasoning we should be able to demand absolutely every single document for any reason of a public official. Should we just do random searches of people's houses, offices, and businesses if they are a public official?

 

[Thump553]

By that reasoning we should be able to demand absolutely every single document for any reason of a public official. Should we just do random searches of people's houses, offices, and businesses if they are a public official?

The sheriff's department receives federal funds. As a condition of that funding he is required to keep the records and to furnish them to the feds. The department knew those requirements when it accepted the funds.

Would you rather have the feds just toss out money unaudited and hope the locals spend it as required by the funding statute?

Also, the sheriff got tagged badly last year in a similar lawsuit (brought by private parties) where the court found that his office destroyed relevant documents rather than turning them over per the court's orders, and imposed substantial sanctions upon him.

I think what we are dealing with here is an egomaniac who feels he is above the law. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end. It's looking to me like politics and immigration issues are being used as a smoke screen mostly.

 

[feralkid]

You can correct me if I'm wrong.

No we can't, that's the problem.

 

[Fear No Evil]

The sheriff's department receives federal funds. As a condition of that funding he is required to keep the records and to furnish them to the feds. The department knew those requirements when it accepted the funds.

Would you rather have the feds just toss out money unaudited and hope the locals spend it as required by the funding statute?

Also, the sheriff got tagged badly last year in a similar lawsuit (brought by private parties) where the court found that his office destroyed relevant documents rather than turning them over per the court's orders, and imposed substantial sanctions upon him.

I think what we are dealing with here is an egomaniac who feels he is above the law. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end. It's looking to me like politics and immigration issues are being used as a smoke screen mostly.

The Feds toss out money unaudited on basically 99.99% of the projects they spend on. The only time it becomes a problem with when a Sheriff appears to go against the will of Great Leader. I think we know who the egomaniac is.. he lives in the white house.

 

[Thump553]

The Feds toss out money unaudited on basically 99.99% of the projects they spend on. The only time it becomes a problem with when a Sheriff appears to go against the will of Great Leader. I think we know who the egomaniac is.. he lives in the white house.

Please give a factual basis for your claim that the Feds toss out money unaudited basically 99.9% of the time, for anyone that knows the actual facts and rules knows this is total BS. But given your previous equating of discovery under court rules as essentially being a warrant, the stream of BS is strong in your "analytical" processes. Start thinking rationally with with less emotion and perhaps you will understand the real world better.

 

[nobodyknows]

Please give a factual basis for your claim that the Feds toss out money unaudited basically 99.9% of the time, for anyone that knows the actual facts and rules knows this is total BS. But given your previous equating of discovery under court rules as essentially being a warrant, the stream of BS is strong in your "analytical" processes. Start thinking rationally with with less emotion and perhaps you will understand the real world better.

The real world?? How the hell can anyone justify letting illegals come into this country in the real world. It's against the law, yet it seems the feds are only worried about the illegals rights. Illegals should have no rights when they come here univited anmore then a thief has rights to help themselves to your possesions just because he snuck into your house while you weren't looking.

LOL at your "real world" BS.

 

[her209]

The real world?? How the hell can anyone justify letting illegals come into this country in the real world. It's against the law, yet it seems the feds are only worried about the illegals rights. Illegals should have no rights when they come here univited anmore then a thief has rights to help themselves to your possesions just because he snuck into your house while you weren't looking.

LOL at your "real world" BS.

Should businesses be allowed to keep profits that they made by hiring (knowingly or unknowingly) illegal immigrants or should it be seized as well? Using the "stolen goods" analogy, if I bought something that was stolen (knowingly or unknowingly), and the cops know I have it, they're going to confiscate it.

 

[nobodyknows]

Should businesses be allowed to keep profits that they made by hiring (knowingly or unknowingly) illegal immigrants or should it be seized as well? Using the "stolen goods" argument, if I bought something that was stolen (knowingly or unknowingly), and the cops know I have it, they're going to confiscate it.

We need a system to tell who is here legally and illegally and then any businesss person who gets caught hiring illegals gets jail time, just like any other thief.

 

[hal2kilo]

By that reasoning we should be able to demand absolutely every single document for any reason of a public official. Should we just do random searches of people's houses, offices, and businesses if they are a public official?

Welcome to the world of the destruction of the 4th Ammendment by the conservative authoritarians. You should be happy.

 

[spidey07]

Welcome to the world of the destruction of the 4th Ammendment by the conservative authoritarians. You should be happy.

Umm, it's Obama and his democrat goons who are not observing the 4th amendment.

 

[hal2kilo]

Umm, it's Obama and his democrat goons who are not observing the 4th amendment.

Um, your side in the SCOTUS has been hell bent on destroying it for years.

 

[Thump553]

The real world?? How the hell can anyone justify letting illegals come into this country in the real world. It's against the law, yet it seems the feds are only worried about the illegals rights. Illegals should have no rights when they come here univited anmore then a thief has rights to help themselves to your possesions just because he snuck into your house while you weren't looking.

LOL at your "real world" BS.

Smooth diversion back into political dogma, but your rant has absolutely nothing to do with the issues in the lawsuit or the points I raised. Where did I even mention illegal aliens and what in the world do illegal aliens have to do with the lawsuit-except in the sheriff's PR campaign?

 

[Fear No Evil]

We need a system to tell who is here legally and illegally and then any businesss person who gets caught hiring illegals gets jail time, just like any other thief.

Its always interesting that the term 'business' is always throw around when we are looking to punish people who hire illegals. Are we also going to jail government officials who knowingly look the other way on illegals who may be getting benefits from taxpayers? How about school teachers and administrators who knowingly allow illegals to get scholarships and other funding?

Everyone always want to punish business while completely ignoring the other people who benefit from it as well. I'm guessing that because business has the deeper pockets.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why? Jailing everyone I don't like would be awesome for me.

Learn from history, and I say again beware what you wish for.

Do not do unto others what you would not have done to yourself.

 

[Infohawk]

No we can't, that's the problem.

Cause he's an admin? :-/

 

[nobodyknows]

Smooth diversion back into political dogma, but your rant has absolutely nothing to do with the issues in the lawsuit or the points I raised. Where did I even mention illegal aliens and what in the world do illegal aliens have to do with the lawsuit-except in the sheriff's PR campaign?

It's a title VI lawsuit alleging discrimination because some hispanics are here legally while others are not, no? That seems pretty obvious as to what the hell illegals have to do with it. If the Feds were doinmg THEIR DAMN JOB then Sheriff Joe wouldn't have to do it for them.

Either we are a nation of laws or we aren't, ergo it is the feds who are the ones playing politics here.

 

[nobodyknows]

Its always interesting that the term 'business' is always throw around when we are looking to punish people who hire illegals. Are we also going to jail government officials who knowingly look the other way on illegals who may be getting benefits from taxpayers? How about school teachers and administrators who knowingly allow illegals to get scholarships and other funding?

Everyone always want to punish business while completely ignoring the other people who benefit from it as well. I'm guessing that because business has the deeper pockets.

If it weren't for people providing jobs to illegals we wouldn't have most of the problems of which you speak, except in cases like Obama's Aunt Zetie living off the US taxpayer.

 

[Patranus]

If it weren't for people providing jobs to illegals we wouldn't have most of the problems of which you speak, except in cases like Obama's Aunt Zetie living off the US taxpayer.

Just like with Arizona, its not the employers job to enforce immigration law.

 

[xj0hnx]

LOL, yea im a Asian Redneck. Moron. Guess you are one of those simple minded folks who think anyone who is against illegal immigration = white. And I bet you think 100% of latinos are pro-illegal to, you probably do since its simple minded [and yet you called me a redneck haha, the name fits you better].

That's about what it all adds up to. I know quite a few immigrants, and none of them are pro-illegal immigration, and most Hispanics I know are not pro-illegal immigration. It's also common practice for the pro-illegal side to call people that are against illegal immigration anti-immigration, or anti-immigrant, which is false.

Sounds like he just needs to give them all the documents that fall within the broad request. What, is he out of CDROMs?

Do you even know what was in their "broad request"?

Pretty much as long as we've got room, we should allow people a shot at bettering themselves.

We do allow them to, they just have to follow some pretty simple procedures and pay some fees.

hundreds of thousands migrate legally, but, millions want to ... of the millions that are here illegally ... most of them are hard workers who keep a low profile ... If they had a legal means to come here, they would have taken it ...

They do/did have a legal means to come here, they choose not to.

You believe "illegal immigrants are bad" some of us believe "the laws that make it hard for people to immigrate legally" are bad.

Illegal immigration is bad, not the immigrants themselves. The procedure is not that long, or complicated, but the fact is that many do not want to be citizens, they only want to come here to work to send money back home, and be able to leave when they want.

They are going to climb walls, swim across rivers, wait in queues, pay money, or do absolutely everything and anything they can to come into the USA.

And they will be sent right back when they are caught.

The only solution to illegal immigration is for Mexico to get it's shit straight, and for the quality of life in Mexico to rise. That is the only total solution.

That's Mexico's problem.

Illegals aren't "invading", they are coming because they want to have a shot at the American dream.

Than they need to do ti the right way. Fact is that many of them do not give a shit about "The American Dream"

If we treat them like criminals, they'll act like criminals. But, I'll tell you this, if I lived in that shithole across the border, I'd do whatever it took to make it north. And I suspect 99% of everybody who things illegal immigration is a problem would also do the same

Apparently they would not do whatever it took, because what it takes is to go through the process of becoming a citizen.

 

[RabidMongoose]

By that reasoning we should be able to demand absolutely every single document for any reason of a public official. Should we just do random searches of people's houses, offices, and businesses if they are a public official?

Probably not of their personal homes, but I'd imagine that the analysis is quite different when dealing with governmental agencies. I'd think that the federal government would have significantly more leeway when dealing with a government agency than a private individual.

 

[Throckmorton]

BTW, does the 4th Amendment really apply to government agencies?

 

[RabidMongoose]

BTW, does the 4th Amendment really apply to government agencies?

Is this a warrant issue or discovery?