Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: JD50
What is so wrong with what he said? Why would you not want to promote healthy heterosexual marriages to our children?
Why would you not want to promote healthy homosexual marriages to our gay and lesbian children?
BTW promoting heterosexual marriage doesn't require banning gay marriage. It is perfectly possible to extol the societal benefits of marriage for heterosexual people, without discriminating against or excluding gay people.
Originally posted by: JD50
If you are gay then fine, I have no problem with it. You can't deny the fact that the best thing for society is a married couple (man and woman) raising children. Not a gay couple, not an unwed couple, not 2 people getting divorced, and not 1 man and 10 wives.
So? That does not mean gay people should therefore be banned from marrying. Also, you can't deny that gay people are happier and healthier in healthy stable homosexual relationships than leading single lives with no stability or long-term relationships. Why not promote marriage for gay people, as well as heterosexual people. You also cannot deny that it is more cost effective for the State for ALL people - gay and straight - to have access to marriage, as married people are generally happier and healthier and have much lower health bills than people who are not married.
Finally, the USA is bulit on a tradition of equality and fairness. It is a violation of that tradition to deny gay people access to marriage.
The USA is also built on a strong, traditional family, with a mother and a father.
And so? Allowing the 2-5% of the population who are homosexual to marry does nothing at all to detract from the marriages and families of the 95% of people who are heterosexual.
Originally posted by: JD50
Are you also in favor of allowing polygamy, or beastiality? Equality and fairness for all right? I am sure a polygamist is much happier and healther with 10 wives than if he was single.
I oppose bestiality on grounds animals are not able to give consent. (I also oppose eating meat.)
The would-be polygamist is at least free to marry one romantic partner (as is every other heterosexual individual of adult age and sane mind). The gay man or lesbian does not even have that luxury. The inequality here (for gay people) clearly exceeds the inequality experienced by polygamists. As for whether legalising polygamy would be a good idea - I have no opinion on that. I'm still waiting to hear the arguments from polygamists.
Yes, a gay man or woman does have that luxury, they are free to marry anyone they would like of the opposite sex. It is equal for all, any man is free to marry any woman, and any woman is free to marry any man.
Now of course, a gay person does not want to marry someone of the opposite sex, just like a polygamist does not want to marry just one other person.
That is like saying a ban on inter-racial marriage is fair becuase everyone gets to marry someone of their own race. What happens if a white person falls in love with a black person? Tough luck? It is an incredibly glib and superficial response, and only indiciates that you are not willing to be honest in this discussion.
Do you seriously think that homosexual people should stay in the closet and marry someone of the opposite sex? Do you seriously think that would be healthy or beneficial for the gay person, the heterosexual spouse, or society at large? No! Gay people do not have the luxury of marrying someone of the opposite sex, because it is totally immoral to deceive another person in that way.
Originally posted by: JD50
Why can't a man marry 10 women,
Because there is a limit on the number of individuals one may marry. This aplies to marriages between same-sex couples as well as marriages between opposite-sex couples. For example, in Massachucetts, gay people are able to marry one person of the same gender, just as heterosexual folks are free to marry one person (of the opposite gender).
Originally posted by: JD50
why cant an older man/woman marry a 12 year old boy/girl,
Because a 12 year old cannot legally give consent to marriage.
Originally posted by: JD50
why can't a brother marry his sister,
Theoretically, incestuous marriages resulting in childbirth could produce genetically damaged or genetically unhealthy offspring. The chance of this is relatively low, tho. I personally don't have a moral problem with incestuous relationships (although I think people in these relationships are probably not going to be terribly emotionally or psychologically healthy).
Originally posted by: JD50
why cant a man marry a man?
A man can marry a man (and a woman can marry a woman) in Canada, Massachucetts, Spain, the Netherlands, etc.
Originally posted by: JD50
Because it is not morally acceptable, and it is not normal.
Social mores play a role. Ultimately, I do not believe that social mores can be allowed to trump equality before the law which is everyone's right as per the constitution.
Originally posted by: JD50
I have absolutely nothing against gay people, be as gay as you want, I really don't care. But, being attracted to the same sex is not normal.
Being gay is perfectly normal. It is as normal as being left-handed. Every population of humans ever studied has been shown to have homosexuals, just as every human population has left-handed people. It would be highly abnormal for a population to have no homosexual peoplem just as it would be unusual to find a human population with no left-handed individuals.
Originally posted by: JD50
Edit- just to avoid any misconceptions, I am not equating being gay with being a pedophile.
Being homosexual is as natural as being heterosexual. I suspect what you are trying to say is that gay people are statisically rare (being less than 10% of the population). However the fact that a personality trait or biological attribute is rare, does not therefore mean it is undesirable. E.g., being left-handed is uncommon - but it is certainly not true to say that being left-handed is morally undesirable.
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