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Federalist wing of Supreme Court - "Screw your votes"

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,168
2,350
136
Voted along duechebag lines

The U.S. Supreme Court said Monday that election officials in Pennsylvania can count absentee ballots received as late as the Friday after Election Day so long as they are postmarked by Nov. 3.
In its ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said that ballots could be counted if they were received by 5 p.m. Nov. 6, as long as they were mailed by Election Day, Nov. 3. It also said that ballots without a postmark would "be presumed to have been mailed by Election Day" unless there was strong evidence to the contrary.
Normally, a state supreme court has the last word on state laws. So the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's decision should have ended the matter. The US Supreme Court's 4-4 decision rejected the appeal, but if the Court had accepted the Pennsylvania Republicans' argument, we would have been in for a whole new wave of federal judicial oversight over election rules. That would spell bad news for state constitutional protection for the right to vote, which is broader than the safeguards afforded under the US Constitution. It could have also thrown Election Day and any post-election disputes into further chaos.


 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
557
579
136
The real BD part is that the same justices voted basically in an opposite way on a WI case. The consistency for the conservative justices is in favor of voter suppression. The consistency for the liberal justices is in favor of ensuring all citizens have easy access to voting.

I've been saying it since Bush vs Gore. If you party policies rely on suppressing the vote, your ideas suck.

This more than anything makes me think the dems need to blow some stuff up if they win.
1. Make the presidency a popular vote. This president clearly withholding aid from ble states indicates that for the president to serve the people, he needs to be beholden to the people. He should not be elected by the states. The senate is the state representation.

2. Make mail-in voting with clear rules a federal law. Follow Colorado as an example.

3. Expandd the Supreme Court by 2 seats. Roberts then becomes swing vote again and it restores the balance that the GOP messed up by failing to vote on Garland.

4. Laslty pass a law that states justices must be brought for a vote within 90 days. No more of this abusing the system to block voting for judges.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,147
18,930
136
Interesting that the states’ rights people and those who frequently cite a prohibition against last minute changes to election procedures as reasons to rule one way or the other decided that they should be able to overrule a state court’s interpretation of the state constitution in order to make last minute changes to election procedures.

I for one am shocked that their commitment to states’ rights was not genuine.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,174
8,482
136
The real BD part is that the same justices voted basically in an opposite way on a WI case. The consistency for the conservative justices is in favor of voter suppression. The consistency for the liberal justices is in favor of ensuring all citizens have easy access to voting.

I've been saying it since Bush vs Gore. If you party policies rely on suppressing the vote, your ideas suck.

This more than anything makes me think the dems need to blow some stuff up if they win.
1. Make the presidency a popular vote. This president clearly withholding aid from ble states indicates that for the president to serve the people, he needs to be beholden to the people. He should not be elected by the states. The senate is the state representation.

2. Make mail-in voting with clear rules a federal law. Follow Colorado as an example.

3. Expandd the Supreme Court by 2 seats. Roberts then becomes swing vote again and it restores the balance that the GOP messed up by failing to vote on Garland.

4. Laslty pass a law that states justices must be brought for a vote within 90 days. No more of this abusing the system to block voting for judges.
Roberts would probably help gut any new voting reforms when nobody is looking like he already has done. 13 seat court and dramatically expanded lower fed courts is the only real option here for Dems if they want real durable reforms.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,147
18,930
136
Roberts would probably help gut any new voting reforms when nobody is looking like he already has done. 13 seat court and dramatically expanded lower fed courts is the only real option here for Dems if they want real durable reforms.
Yes, Roberts has attacked voting rights and voting reforms at almost every opportunity. While he may not be the unprincipled hack that people like Thomas and Alito are, his principles are in fact very bad.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,327
1,343
136
This is scary. These fools say, “State rights” over and over until they need to support right wing voter suppression to have minority rule. The SCOTUS will become a sham if we do not add more justices.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,133
13,073
136
Ugh, gentlemen. The SCOTUS would not overturn the ruling of the PA SCOTUS, affirming states rights. Take it as a win.
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
557
579
136
Ugh, gentlemen. The SCOTUS would not overturn the ruling of the PA SCOTUS, affirming states rights. Take it as a win.
Only because it was 4-4. What do you think would happen with the new judge? Gorsich, who fancies himself a constitutionalist voted to overturn states rights.
 
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Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,327
1,343
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Can someone tell why a SC nomination needs to have a television commercial? I have seen about four different versions. They either are qualified or they are not by the advise and consent function of the Senate. What does any of that function of the Senate need a television commercial to the masses? If you need this, it’s very wrong.
 

Hindsight_2020

Junior Member
Oct 20, 2020
16
28
46
First and foremost, he has to lose. And, not by a little, but by a lot. And, even then, he will refuse to leave.

The reality is that Trump has been planting the seeds of being President for life for a while now. And, not one from the Right (across all branches of government) will stop him.

Romney will just express deep disappointment as Trump appoints Ivanka as the next President after his death.

I have zero faith in the Right doing the proper thing.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,133
13,073
136
Only because it was 4-4. What do you think would happen with the new judge? Gorsich, who fancies himself a constitutionalist voted to overturn states rights.
So what? That's not what happened. We need to win this election & deal with it from there. Why the Hell anybody wants to re-fight a battle they already won is mystifying.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,708
1,013
126
Absolutely no constitutional issues involved here at all-was strictly a matter of construing a (very clear) state statute. That four justices thought this case was worthy of taking on shows our new "conservative" court is going to be a very activist court, dictating their demands to the legislature and executive branches, state governments and us mere peons.
 
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Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,327
1,343
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Absolutely no constitutional issues involved here at all-was strictly a matter of construing a (very clear) state statute. That four justices thought this case was worthy of taking on shows our new "conservative" court is going to be a very activist court, dictating their demands to the legislature and executive branches, state governments and us mere peons.
Just remember, even lifetime appointments end. There are two who are on the low side and at any point another could pass quite quickly. Not wishing it on anyone, just stating facts.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,086
9,957
136
PA decided to allow any ballot postmarked by Election Day that shows up to 3 days after to be counted. The 4 conservative justices decided to overrule the State of PA and how they wanted to run their election. How is that not interfering with the will of the people of PA and their legislature? If ACB had been on the bench she likely would have sided with the 4 other conservatives.

So judicial activism is fine as long as judges interfere in states running their elections in favor of Republicans? Didn't we go through this same shit in Bush v Gore? Conservative court interfering in a state run election to hand vote to Republicans. That decision was so fucked up in the decision they stated this is not precedent which is something SCOTUS is supposed to set.

The fix will be in if ACB is seated. Mark my words if the vote is close SCOTUS will hand the election over to Trump. Only a landslide will prevent that.

 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,656
2,168
126
How does establishing a drop dead date for mail in ballots fall under the heading of judicial activism? There is a date by which ballots have to be received, everyone knows what that date is. It's no different than knowing you have to get to the polls by a certain time.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,119
975
126
How does establishing a drop dead date for mail in ballots fall under the heading of judicial activism? There is a date by which ballots have to be received, everyone knows what that date is. It's no different than knowing you have to get to the polls by a certain time.
Thankfully they did...but that's not the point.

What happened to "State's rights"? Why did 4 conservative justices go AGAINST state's rights? THAT'S the point.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,086
9,957
136
How does establishing a drop dead date for mail in ballots fall under the heading of judicial activism? There is a date by which ballots have to be received, everyone knows what that date is. It's no different than knowing you have to get to the polls by a certain time.
Fed judges interfering in how states run their election. PA decided Trump fucking with the post office and the pandemic need to use postmark to count vote. Doesn't change the sprit of the drop dead date according to PA
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
14,370
7,158
146
Folks need to understand what was going on. The pretext was whether ballots mailed by Nov3 but received by the 6th should count.
(I believe the federal law says votes must be “cast” by Election Day and state legislatures have the right to govern state elections)

what was also argued at SCOTUS, and the conservatives likely agreed with, was the PA state Supreme Court overstepped it’s bounds when it interpreted what the legislature wanted (to limit votes cast to those received by Nov3) against the PA state constitution and its protections for free/fair voting.

The argument is since federal law states the legislature handles elections the state constitution can’t impact their decisions despite the state legislature having obviously had a hand in drafting and agreeing to abide by the state constitution and their own courts interpretations.

This is to say a very radical position for SCOTUS to potentially take.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,658
4,482
126
Folks need to understand what was going on. The pretext was whether ballots mailed by Nov3 but received by the 6th should count.
(I believe the federal law says votes must be “cast” by Election Day and state legislatures have the right to govern state elections)

what was also argued at SCOTUS, and the conservatives likely agreed with, was the PA state Supreme Court overstepped it’s bounds when it interpreted what the legislature wanted (to limit votes cast to those received by Nov3) against the PA state constitution and its protections for free/fair voting.

The argument is since federal law states the legislature handles elections the state constitution can’t impact their decisions despite the state legislature having obviously had a hand in drafting and agreeing to abide by the state constitution and their own courts interpretations.

This is to say a very radical position for SCOTUS to potentially take.
Democrats can keep dancing around this, but eventually they'll have to pack this court. Better do it ASAP before it rigs elections enough that they can't win anymore.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,287
2,000
136
It is hard to say in absolute terms what is represented by judicial activism.

Ostensibly, SCOTUS made this decision because they decided it was the PA Supreme Court which engaged in judicial activism to allow votes received by the 6th to count. Or at least they said the court overlooked or interpreted incorrectly the conflict this created with the state constitution.

This is our challenge. So long as SCOTUS can render a decision which is facially plausible within the letter of the law, what they do is defensively not judicial activism. However, there are quite a number of arguments within the letter of the law that can be used to justify a decision which are applied in bad faith to justify an outcome that they desire.

Thus we are in a position to test our faith. Do we believe the institutions of are government are strong enough to withstand the next year+? Or do we march further toward fascism and/or civil war?

You may argue that this depends on whether our institutions can operate in a way to deserve our faith. Those arguments are wrong. The survival of our government rests on the faith we place in it alone.

Regarding this election, I think Pandora's box is destined to be opened by SCOTUS. I can only hope that this does not change the outcome and the legislature acts to construct a new box.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,269
2,536
136
Democrats can keep dancing around this, but eventually they'll have to pack this court. Better do it ASAP before it rigs elections enough that they can't win anymore.
Yep. The Republicans have proven they absolutely do not care about norms or the rights of their constituents. They will break EVERYTHING to maintain/obtain power. The historical norms and decorum that have created some check and balance are demonstrably insufficient.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,656
2,168
126
From where? Is that in the Constitution?
The constitution specify when the electors have to meet, I don't believe it states when the state elections have to be held.
When do we decide who won? Do we just wait until the ballots stop trickling in? Do we have a list of voters and keep going until all the names are checked off? There has to be a due date. There simply isn't any other way to get through the election.
 

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