Federal workers earning double their private counterparts

[MooseNSquirrel]

Um, he specifically said producing and contributing - you are citing consumption as though it were the same thing. Government workers can only pay in taxes a portion of what has been taken from other people, less the handling costs, whilst consuming at least as much as non-government workers. At best, government is a necessary evil, not a productive part of society - with the notable exception of programs and agencies like NASA and DARPA whose research actually has contributed materially to our society's total level of wealth and prosperity. Government is overhead - necessary to be sure, but nonetheless a drain on the productive sectors of society.

I never understood this attitude:

"Government is overhead - necessary to be sure, but nonetheless a drain on the productive sectors of society".

Shouldn't it be:

"Government is a necessary overhead, without it we wouldn't have the productive parts of society"

There's a reason people stopped being hunter gatherers...pretty sure it has little to do with corporations.

 

[ShawnD1]

Are Federal government employees really worth $30k per year more in benefits than private employees?

$30k a YEAR!!!

Um yes? When I graduated from chemistry, I got a job as an analyst with no experience and was paid roughly $17 per hour at a private company. I looked at the qualifications needed to work at government labs and they were absolutely insane. Minimum of 10 years lab experience to work in a government research lab. There were also a few jobs to work with federal police; those needed lots of experience as well as high marks in school and a background check of your entire family.

Government employees get paid more simply because they are more qualified. They are older, they have more experience, they are more educated.

My solution:
1. Make them pay for their healthcare like everyone else.

What makes you think everyone else pays for their own healthcare? Ask a senior engineer at a large engineering firm what his healthcare costs. I bet it costs him almost nothing because the company covers a huge majority of it.

 

[Double Trouble]

Government employees get paid more simply because they are more qualified. They are older, they have more experience, they are more educated.

... and your evidence for this is? I've never seen any analysis that came to that conclusion.

When doing such a comparison, you to start by comparing apples to apples. You can't compare the salary of someone working at McDonalds to the salary of a scientist working at the CDC. Also, you can't compare pay for jobs for which there is no equivalent in one of the sectors, the comparison has to be limited to jobs that exist in both public and private sectors.

You compare salary and benefits of equivalent jobs in the public and private sectors, then factor in the cost of living (for example, if lots of federal workers are in DC, you have to figure that's going to boost their starting pay), and then factor in total benefits (medical package, retirement, misc perks, direct compensation etc).

That's the kind of analysis that would be meaningful.

What makes you think everyone else pays for their own healthcare? Ask a senior engineer at a large engineering firm what his healthcare costs. I bet it costs him almost nothing because the company covers a huge majority of it.

Actually, fortune 500 or even 100 companies across the board are slashing their healthcare and pension benefits. Defined benefit retirement plans are going the way of the dodo, as are full health care coverage packages. They are replaced with various flavors of defined contribution plans and forms of self-insurance like HSA's.

 

[Red Dawn]

The common Americans, those of the shrinking middle class, are at each others throats over peanuts while the Super Wealthy, those that actually run the country, are laughing at them all the way to the bank. They love this, it takes attention away from them.

 

[sunzt]

When doing such a comparison, you to start by comparing apples to apples. You can't compare the salary of someone working at McDonalds to the salary of a scientist working at the CDC. Also, you can't compare pay for jobs for which there is no equivalent in one of the sectors, the comparison has to be limited to jobs that exist in both public and private sectors.

You compare salary and benefits of equivalent jobs in the public and private sectors, then factor in the cost of living (for example, if lots of federal workers are in DC, you have to figure that's going to boost their starting pay), and then factor in total benefits (medical package, retirement, misc perks, direct compensation etc).

This. That is the fallacy with the figure in the OP, which pretty much makes it meaningless.

But i think his point was that, for non-administration jobs, the Government mostly seeks higher qualifications for its employees. Eg: it wants less entry level people and more of the best of the best whereas private sector has a whole gambit of qualifications. This results in the higher average salary for government workers because higher qualifications = higher salary, and has less to do with the notion that government workers are overpaid.

 

[Budmantom]

The common Americans, those of the shrinking middle class, are at each others throats over peanuts while the Super Wealthy, those that actually run the country, are laughing at them all the way to the bank. They love this, it takes attention away from them.

I hate to say it but we agree.

 

[hal2kilo]

Actually, fortune 500 or even 100 companies across the board are slashing their healthcare and pension benefits. Defined benefit retirement plans are going the way of the dodo, as are full health care coverage packages. They are replaced with various flavors of defined contribution plans and forms of self-insurance like HSA's.

My company dropped their defined benefit plan 22 years ago. Are there still private companies without any union employees that have any defined benefit plans anymore?

 

[Phokus]

It amazes me how people bitch about how much a government worker gets paid, rather than bitching about the dwindling total compensation that private workers get.

"hey, corporation x is slashing my medical coverage... what the fuck, the gap between my total compensation and a gubmint worker is now wider, damn you federal government!"

This country is fucking retarded.

 

[nobodyknows]

How many fast food joints does the federal government own?

Exactly.

If they did have them nobody could afford to eat there except of course overpaid, underworked goverment employees.

 

[werepossum]

if they did have them nobody could afford to eat there except of course overpaid, underworked goverment employees.

Bazinga!
+1

 

[Brainonska511]

Um yes? When I graduated from chemistry, I got a job as an analyst with no experience and was paid roughly $17 per hour at a private company. I looked at the qualifications needed to work at government labs and they were absolutely insane. Minimum of 10 years lab experience to work in a government research lab.

There are entry level positions available too in national labs, but you'd hit a glass-ceiling if you didn't pursue a higher degree. 10 years of research experience isn't that much though if you think about it. A year or two in undergrad, 4-5 years of grad school (PhD), a post-doc or two of varying lengths to make 10 years.

 

[nobodyknows]

The common Americans, those of the shrinking middle class, are at each others throats over peanuts while the Super Wealthy, those that actually run the country, are laughing at them all the way to the bank. They love this, it takes attention away from them.

I remember a friend saying back in the days before Reagan busted the Unions that he didn't mind that the Union workers had a car, and a 4x4 pick-up, and a camper, and a boat, and a snowmobile and a motorcycle. He thought that was great, he just questioned how they could have all that stuff and also have the time to use them all??

Same thing holds true for goverment jobs these days IMO.