Federal Judge OKs Global Warming Lawsuit By Legislating From The Bench

BushBasha

Banned
Jul 18, 2005
453
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0
Only in Liberal Land

Federal Judge OKs Global Warming Lawsuit
Aug 24 9:00 PM US/Eastern


By DAVID KRAVETS
AP Legal Affairs Writer


SAN FRANCISCO


A federal judge here said environmental groups and four U.S. cities can sue federal development agencies on allegations the overseas projects they financially back contribute to global warming.

The decision Tuesday by U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White is the first to say that groups alleging global warming have a right to sue.

"This is the first decision in the country to say that climate change causes sufficient injury to give a plaintiff standing, to open the courthouse door," said Ronald Shems, a Vermont attorney representing Friends of the Earth.

That group, in addition to Greenpeace and the cities of Boulder, Colo., Santa Monica, Oakland and Arcata, Calif., sued Overseas Private Investment Corp. and the Export-Import Bank of the United States. Those government agencies provide loans and insure billions of dollars of U.S. investors' money for development projects overseas. Many of the projects are power plants that emit greenhouses gases that the groups allege cause global warming.

The coalition argues that the National Environmental Policy Act, the law requiring environmental assessments of proposed development projects in the United States, should apply to the U.S.-backed projects overseas. The U.S. law should apply, they say, because those developments are contributing to the degradation of the U.S. environment via global warming.

The two government agencies claimed that U.S. environmental regulations do not apply to overseas projects, and that the courts have no right to intervene in those agencies' affairs.

Still, the judge's ruling was narrow. White did not rule whether those agencies must perform environmental assessments of projects they help fund, but simply said the groups have a right to sue. If White's decision stands, the issue of whether U.S. environmental rules apply to the projects backed by the agencies likely will be litigated, Shems said.

Shems noted that, even if he ultimately wins the case, that doesn't mean a given project would be blocked even if an environmental analysis is performed and highlights severe environmental damage it would cause.

"The first step in getting a handle on climate change is to find out what the sources are and get an inventory," he said.

The suit claims 8 percent of the world's greenhouse gases come from projects supported by the two agencies.

Linda Formella, a spokeswoman with Export-Import Bank, said the agency, which supported nearly $18 billion in exports last year, does not comment on pending litigation. The Overseas Private Investment Corp. did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

The case is Friends of the Earth v. Watson, 02-4106. [/quote]

Once again, decisions like this reinforce the need for a few more Judge Roberts on the bench. Like most of the cases coming out of Loonie Liberal Land, this will be overturned. Democrats can't win elections with their out-of-the-mainstream-ideologies, so, as this case shows, they have used the clever tactic of stacking the courts with like-minded judicial activists to champion their agenda through the courts....truly a sad day for jurisprudence.


 

5LiterMustang

Senior member
Dec 8, 2002
531
0
0
Typical 9th circuit sh1t...people think the right is bad? this the kinda crap that will destroy this country much faster than any right wingers will. Dont get me wrong the religious zealots piss me off, but not nearly as bad as this sh!t
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I'm sorry, how is that legislating from the bench? I am not a lawyer (and you clearly aren't either), but it seems to me that deciding the applicability of US law to US backed projects is exactl y the sort of thing a court should be deciding. The law already exists, the only question is whether or not it applies to projects backed by the US but carried out overseas. Since the law obviously doesn't clarify this point, the court is doing exactly what it was created to do, interpreting the law. Just because you don't agree with the ruling doesn't make it "legislating from the bench".

I swear, everyone who uses that phrase should be forced to take an intro to law class at their local college, if only so they stop getting their legal info from Fox News.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang
Typical 9th circuit sh1t...people think the right is bad? this the kinda crap that will destroy this country much faster than any right wingers will. Dont get me wrong the religious zealots piss me off, but not nearly as bad as this sh!t

Yup. They say that conservatives control the appeals courts, but the 9th circuit is completely wacked.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,917
6,570
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, how is that legislating from the bench? I am not a lawyer (and you clearly aren't either), but it seems to me that deciding the applicability of US law to US backed projects is exactl y the sort of thing a court should be deciding. The law already exists, the only question is whether or not it applies to projects backed by the US but carried out overseas. Since the law obviously doesn't clarify this point, the court is doing exactly what it was created to do, interpreting the law. Just because you don't agree with the ruling doesn't make it "legislating from the bench".

I swear, everyone who uses that phrase should be forced to take an intro to law class at their local college, if only so they stop getting their legal info from Fox News.

My dear Sir, I will have you know that the term 'legislating from the bench' is a time honored term of those who think with their ass.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Originally posted by: BushBasha
Only in Liberal Land
.
.
Still, the ruling Tuesday by U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White was narrow. He did not rule whether the federal agencies must perform environmental assessments of projects they help fund, but simply said the environmental groups have a right to sue.
This is not "legislating from the bench." The court ruled on the applicablity of existing law. The ruling doesn't even address the merits of the case. All the judge said was, environmental groups have the right to have their case heard.

You may have heard of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
As a "conservative," do you believe in upholding the Constitution? If so, what part of the First Amendment do you want to rewrite? :shocked:

Would you prefer Congress to eviscerate the Constitution, or would you prefer it to be done by < a-hem > NON-activist judges? :|
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, how is that legislating from the bench? I am not a lawyer (and you clearly aren't either), but it seems to me that deciding the applicability of US law to US backed projects is exactl y the sort of thing a court should be deciding. The law already exists, the only question is whether or not it applies to projects backed by the US but carried out overseas. Since the law obviously doesn't clarify this point, the court is doing exactly what it was created to do, interpreting the law. Just because you don't agree with the ruling doesn't make it "legislating from the bench".

I swear, everyone who uses that phrase should be forced to take an intro to law class at their local college, if only so they stop getting their legal info from Fox News.


The problem we have here is the jury is still out about global warming.

You may personally believe in it, but there are very many scientists who do not believe that it has even reached the theory phase yet.

As to the legal ramifications, in order to sue you must be able to show that you have suffered damages. If you are sueing on behalf of a client then your client must be able to demonstrate damages and thus sign off on the law suit.

Now, there is where we have a problem:

1) Who is going to sign off that they have damages. Mother Earth? The people abroad that are having environmentally un-friendly projects in their areas?

2) If Mother Earth isn't in fact signing on the dotted line and it is other people in other countries, no United States court will have jurisdiction to try any of these cases. When a crime is committed overseas then the lawsuit will happen overseas, case and point Natalie Holloway (that dead horse has been beaten enough you should know all of that by now).

3) Our laws are not applicable overseas. I understand that America has reached the point economically that many are worried more about their environment than their economy. However, in many 2nd and especially 3rd world countries this is not the case. The deserts in central Africa are expanding, for example, because the people there keep cutting down trees. The cutting down of these trees is killing their environment which THEY DO REALIZE, they simply do not care because when given a choice between a problem 50 years from now and starving today, they choose to not starve.

Thus the vast majority of the time the legislative bodies in these countries haven't wasted much of their time passing laws protecting their environment as they are too busy trying to find a way to feed and employ their people.

4) What right do American interest groups like environmentalist have to tell people in other countries what is in their best interest? Maybe they want the chemical plant in their hometown despite the fact that they will get cancer later on specifically because they need a job now because they are starving?

5) I could keep going but I hope you see where this is going.


You have to be able to show standing and damages to sue and no matter how much you want to protect our environment, an american environmentalist group cannot show these damages period.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
My dear Sir, I will have you know that the term 'legislating from the bench' is a time honored term of those who think with their ass.
I think you're giving them too much credit.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: Czar
BushBasha,
whats with the constant liberal bashing?


Eventually the non-liberals here get sick of being bashed and decide to do a little bashing back I would imagine.

But that's just common sense talking, don't mind me.

:roll:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I'm sorry, how is that legislating from the bench? I am not a lawyer (and you clearly aren't either), but it seems to me that deciding the applicability of US law to US backed projects is exactl y the sort of thing a court should be deciding. The law already exists, the only question is whether or not it applies to projects backed by the US but carried out overseas. Since the law obviously doesn't clarify this point, the court is doing exactly what it was created to do, interpreting the law. Just because you don't agree with the ruling doesn't make it "legislating from the bench".

I swear, everyone who uses that phrase should be forced to take an intro to law class at their local college, if only so they stop getting their legal info from Fox News.


The problem we have here is the jury is still out about global warming.

You may personally believe in it, but there are very many scientists who do not believe that it has even reached the theory phase yet.

As to the legal ramifications, in order to sue you must be able to show that you have suffered damages. If you are sueing on behalf of a client then your client must be able to demonstrate damages and thus sign off on the law suit.

Now, there is where we have a problem:

1) Who is going to sign off that they have damages. Mother Earth? The people abroad that are having environmentally un-friendly projects in their areas?

2) If Mother Earth isn't in fact signing on the dotted line and it is other people in other countries, no United States court will have jurisdiction to try any of these cases. When a crime is committed overseas then the lawsuit will happen overseas, case and point Natalie Holloway (that dead horse has been beaten enough you should know all of that by now).

3) Our laws are not applicable overseas. I understand that America has reached the point economically that many are worried more about their environment than their economy. However, in many 2nd and especially 3rd world countries this is not the case. The deserts in central Africa are expanding, for example, because the people there keep cutting down trees. The cutting down of these trees is killing their environment which THEY DO REALIZE, they simply do not care because when given a choice between a problem 50 years from now and starving today, they choose to not starve.

Thus the vast majority of the time the legislative bodies in these countries haven't wasted much of their time passing laws protecting their environment as they are too busy trying to find a way to feed and employ their people.

4) What right do American interest groups like environmentalist have to tell people in other countries what is in their best interest? Maybe they want the chemical plant in their hometown despite the fact that they will get cancer later on specifically because they need a job now because they are starving?

5) I could keep going but I hope you see where this is going.


You have to be able to show standing and damages to sue and no matter how much you want to protect our environment, an american environmentalist group cannot show these damages period.

I'm not debating the concept of global warming, my views on the matter are probably much different than you might think...

My point is that here in the US we have environmental laws that apply locally. Obviously we can't force other countries to follow those laws, but the question is whether or not US supported projects have to follow US laws. It seems like a less than clearcut issue to me, and just the sort of issue the court should be debating. We can discuss whether or not they made the right decision, but I'm simply pointing out that making the decision is not a case of "legislating from the bench".
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
1,607
0
0
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Originally posted by: Czar
BushBasha,
whats with the constant liberal bashing?


Eventually the non-liberals here get sick of being bashed and decide to do a little bashing back I would imagine.

But that's just common sense talking, don't mind me.

:roll:

Don't take the high road.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
I'm not debating the concept of global warming, my views on the matter are probably much different than you might think...

My point is that here in the US we have environmental laws that apply locally. Obviously we can't force other countries to follow those laws, but the question is whether or not US supported projects have to follow US laws. It seems like a less than clearcut issue to me, and just the sort of issue the court should be debating. We can discuss whether or not they made the right decision, but I'm simply pointing out that making the decision is not a case of "legislating from the bench".

You can't force people to abide by laws of your country when they are outside of said country.

An 18 year old American visiting Germany can legally drink.
In Amsterdam you as an American must abide by their drug laws not ours.

To presume that civilians or coporations should have to follow our rules while acting outside of our country is assinine in my opinion. If the country they are operating in wants cleaner air then they should pass laws doing something about it.

Pardon me while I use the liberal cliche and say "It isn't our job to police the world's" air.

 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang
Typical 9th circuit sh1t...people think the right is bad? this the kinda crap that will destroy this country much faster than any right wingers will. Dont get me wrong the religious zealots piss me off, but not nearly as bad as this sh!t

Nothing will destory this country quicker then having breathable air or drinkable water.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang
Typical 9th circuit sh1t...people think the right is bad? this the kinda crap that will destroy this country much faster than any right wingers will. Dont get me wrong the religious zealots piss me off, but not nearly as bad as this sh!t

Yup. They say that conservatives control the appeals courts, but the 9th circuit is completely wacked.

Ahem - this was a ruling by a District Court judge, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Ninth Circuit. Moreover, Judge White is a Bush appointee who took the bench in 2002.

You guys might want to read the articles before commenting on them. You'd think anyone who'd been here as long as xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx would know that, and refrain from posting nonsense like:

Democrats can't win elections with their out-of-the-mainstream-ideologies, so, as this case shows, they have used the clever tactic of stacking the courts with like-minded judicial activists to champion their agenda through the courts....truly a sad day for jurisprudence.
 

BushBasha

Banned
Jul 18, 2005
453
0
0
Originally posted by: Harvey

This is not "legislating from the bench." The court ruled on the applicablity of existing law. The ruling doesn't even address the merits of the case. All the judge said was, environmental groups have the right to have their case heard.


Roberts referred to a 1983 case in which the Washington state supreme court found the state guilty of discrimination for paying women less than men for jobs of "comparable worth."

Roberts said in a February 3, 1984, memo that the ruling smacked of judicial activism. "This is a total reorientation of the law of gender discrimination," he concluded, since "it mandates nothing less than central planning of the economy by judges. Under the theory judges, not the marketplace, decide how much a particular job is worth."


...keep your thoughts and the posts defending this ruling as just "interpreting the law" handy for that September 6th (still the 6th?) dog and pony show. Search the Roberts threads and you'll see the other side of the coin...funny how that works.
 

BushBasha

Banned
Jul 18, 2005
453
0
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang
Typical 9th circuit sh1t...people think the right is bad? this the kinda crap that will destroy this country much faster than any right wingers will. Dont get me wrong the religious zealots piss me off, but not nearly as bad as this sh!t

Yup. They say that conservatives control the appeals courts, but the 9th circuit is completely wacked.

Ahem - this was a ruling by a District Court judge, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Ninth Circuit. Moreover, Judge White is a Bush appointee who took the bench in 2002.

You guys might want to read the articles before commenting on them. You'd think anyone who'd been here as long as xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx would know that.

Nice revision to once again lash out at me with your bullsh*t. It doesn't matter WHO appointed them, Judge Judy...*cough*Souter*cough*. You like to bitch at people for making it political, then you bring in that Bush appointed them...and that's germane how, Judge Brown?

Lastly, I am glad you still get an erection over my BushBasha moniker....speaks volumes.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
BushBasha -- What Roberts said about a "comparable worth" case has nothing to do with these facts and circumstances. You seem to enjoy posting the most non-sequiter BS and thinking it actually means something. :roll:
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
You guys might want to read the articles before commenting on them. You'd think anyone who'd been here as long as xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx would know that, and refrain from posting nonsense like:

Democrats can't win elections with their out-of-the-mainstream-ideologies, so, as this case shows, they have used the clever tactic of stacking the courts with like-minded judicial activists to champion their agenda through the courts....truly a sad day for jurisprudence.
Seriously, what kind of tool would post crap like that? How irrelevant. As I've said in other threads, there are certain posters here who simply go out of their way to bash liberals and the facts be damned.

Pathetic. :thumbsdown:
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: BushBasha

Nice revision to once again lash out at me with your bullsh*t. It doesn't matter WHO appointed them, Judge Judy...*cough*Souter*cough*. You like to bitch at people for making it political, then you bring in that Bush appointed them...and that's germane how, Judge Brown?

Lastly, I am glad you still get an erection over my BushBasha moniker....speaks volumes.

If it doesn't matter who appointed the "liberal activist judges," why did you say "Democrats can't win elections with their out-of-the-mainstream-ideologies, so, as this case shows, they have used the clever tactic of stacking the courts with like-minded judicial activists to champion their agenda through the courts....truly a sad day for jurisprudence"?

How does this case show anything about the Democrats and their clever court stacking, if President Bush appointed this judge?

If you didn't want to be called out as a returning banned member, you shouldn't have provided such concrete evidence that you are, well, a returning banned member. Your arrogance has tripped you up - get used to it. Even if the mods let you stay, we all know that BushBasha = xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx, and that your "BushBasha" nickname is as phony as the rest of your persona.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
If you didn't want to be called out as a returning banned member, you shouldn't have provided such concrete evidence that you are, well, a returning banned member. Your arrogance has tripped you up - get used to it. Even if the mods let you stay, we all know that BushBasha = xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx, and that your "BushBasha" nickname is as phony as the rest of your persona.
Hmmmm, I thought his brand of partisanship sounded familiar. Makes sense now...