Federal court stays Trump's attempt to discriminate against transgender people serving in militaty

[darkswordsman17]

Oh I forgot, it's not enough to simply support a policy like this. You need to enthusiastically embrace it without question or any exceptions whatsoever otherwise you = Hitler.

Aww, I must've hurt poor baby's feelings. So much for the "I'm a man mother fucker, ya'll don't even know unless you too have been a man, and were the decider in other men's lives" macho man act, eh? As expected you were just talking out of your ass and when called on it, immediately turned into a crybaby. I'm totally shocked about that turn.

You know what the best part is? There are women serving in our military that are and/or were more of a man than you'll ever be. And that's a great glorious thing.

 

[glenn1]

Aww, I must've hurt poor baby's feelings. So much for the "I'm a man mother fucker, ya'll don't even know unless you too have been a man, and were the decider in other men's lives" macho man act, eh? As expected you were just talking out of your ass and when called on it, immediately turned into a crybaby. I'm totally shocked about that turn.

^ Perfect example of why progressives lose elections.

 

[WelshBloke]

Oh I forgot, it's not enough to simply support a policy like this. You need to enthusiastically embrace it without question or any exceptions whatsoever otherwise you = Hitler.

Was anyone asking you to enthusiastically embrace it?
Feel free to totally ignore it.

 

[lopri]

That's fine for female to male transsexuals as male fitness standards are higher (appropriately due to physiological differences) but gives a big break to male to female transsexuals for the same reasons of lower standards. The advantages are somewhat more complicated with weight/BMI, you're more advantaged in weight standards going female-male but the reverse is true for body fat calculations.

Again this is not trying to "punish" transsexuals. Physical fitness and BMI standards aren't so onerous that it requires Olympian level fitness to meet them. I just don't want to create a situation where a transition becomes a potential "solution" to getting off a Performance Improvement Plan for an overweight or out-of-shape soldier. Just make it such that if you're not on a PIP before you're allowed to transition, or that if you are on one while you transition that to get off it that you need to meet the higher standard first.

Requiring male to female transgender person to meet their pre-transition level of physical performance is not reasonable nor fair. Majority of them go through some sort of hormone treatments, which change their physical appearances to their preferred gender. That of course will change the body composition and physical performance accordingly. BMI or body fat percentage responds directly to hormone level.

And as you aware, there are positions that do not require a tip-top physical condition. (doctors, lawyers, cooks, priests, barbors, tailors, etc.) People often overlook that military is not soley composed of combat units.

 

[glenn1]

Requiring male to female transgender person to meet their pre-transition level of physical performance is not reasonable nor fair. Majority of them go through some sort of hormone treatments, which change their physical appearances to their preferred gender. That of course will change the body composition and physical performance accordingly. BMI or body fat percentage responds directly to hormone level.

And as you aware, there are positions that do not require a tip-top physical condition. (doctors, lawyers, cooks, priests, barbors, tailors, etc.) People often overlook that military is not soley composed of combat units.

My example was someone already not meeting the standards for the gender and being flagged for PT test failure or Weight Control Program prior to transition, my comments were strictly about getting off a flag or WCP when transitioning. And the new OPAT (Occupation Physical Assessment Test) seems to be a good start on linking appropriate demands of fitness to the soldier's position.

 

[lopri]

But that sounds like a highly unrealistic scenario. I do not believe transgender persons make such a monumental personal decision just for the convenience of avoiding a routine physical test. Such an opportunistic behavior, if ever occurs, should be easy to detect and smoke out. And I would add that a person who is unable to meet the physical standard of pre-transition gender is just likely to fail the test post-transition.

 

[blackangst1]

My concern about transgender people serving has nothing to do with what sex they are or hope to become,. but with the mental and emotional struggles they face. Its been shown that transgenders face depression and anxiety at a MUCH higher rate than the general population ( HERE is one such study ). Being in a front line situation for soldiers causes enough stress as it is. I dont like the idea of piling that up onto an individual thats going in severely disadvantaged.

 

[fskimospy]

My concern about transgender people serving has nothing to do with what sex they are or hope to become,. but with the mental and emotional struggles they face. Its been shown that transgenders face depression and anxiety at a MUCH higher rate than the general population ( HERE is one such study ). Being in a front line situation for soldiers causes enough stress as it is. I dont like the idea of piling that up onto an individual thats going in severely disadvantaged.

Have you considered that the discrimination they face may be a major source of their increased depression and anxiety?

Regardless, the military already screens entrants (and current serving members) for depression and anxiety issues. There's no logical reason to ban people who are not depressed in advance because they might become depressed some day in the future. They don't need our protection, they just need our lack of active oppression.

 

[werepossum]

This is really good news for drone manufacturers. I mean, you can't fight a war in Iraq or Afghanistan while also meeting with your doctors, psychiatrists, and nurses carrying out your transition. However, you could pilot drones from Arizona and drop bombs between appointments.

 

[IronWing]

This is really good news for drone manufacturers. I mean, you can't fight a war in Iraq or Afghanistan while also meeting with your doctors, psychiatrists, and nurses carrying out your transition. However, you could pilot drones from Arizona and drop bombs between appointments.

This is likely how future wars will be fought anyway. Why send troops into combat with all that deathy unpleasantness and support costs when we could send in gaggles of drones to do the nasty necessity?

 

[nakedfrog]

This is likely how future wars will be fought anyway. Why send troops into combat with all that deathy unpleasantness and support costs when we could send in gaggles of drones to do the nasty necessity?

This reminds me of a Philip K. Dick short story, The Defenders.

 

[darkswordsman17]

^ Perfect example of why progressives lose elections.

Doug Jones says hi. Your posts are a perfect example of why there's a rising tide against conservatives. Because you're straight fucked in the head massive hypocrites (gotta love how you don't own up to your own insults, you know, the ones that you were flinging before I even posted in this thread...), and when people point this out, you morons double down on stupidity. As evidenced by your posts in this thread. I'll assume your whining and not being able to handle what you were dishing out as you admitting you were just talking out of your ass and making shit up. I re-iterate how shocked I am at how things have turned out.

 

[Commodus]

My concern about transgender people serving has nothing to do with what sex they are or hope to become,. but with the mental and emotional struggles they face. Its been shown that transgenders face depression and anxiety at a MUCH higher rate than the general population ( HERE is one such study ). Being in a front line situation for soldiers causes enough stress as it is. I dont like the idea of piling that up onto an individual thats going in severely disadvantaged.

A lot of that anxiety and depression comes from not being accepted by society, mind you. And if a transgender person can survive the rigors of training and living with a unit, they can probably handle combat just as well as anyone else.

 

[Meghan54]

My concern about transgender people serving has nothing to do with what sex they are or hope to become,. but with the mental and emotional struggles they face. Its been shown that transgenders face depression and anxiety at a MUCH higher rate than the general population ( HERE is one such study ). Being in a front line situation for soldiers causes enough stress as it is. I dont like the idea of piling that up onto an individual thats going in severely disadvantaged.

My, my, my......such concern! So much concern for others' mental health & well being. You are so concerned that you're glad to remove those from an environment that provides very comprehensive medical care, including mental health care, and push them out into an environment that almost completely lacks such.

So big of you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Seems like the military is pretty well along on adjusting policy to accommodate transgenders. The one concern I do have is that it should be required that you meet all standards (physical fitness, body mass index, etc.)

I bet they totally didn't think of that! Maybe you should announce your availablility as a consultant to them?

... dipshit

 

[werepossum]

This is likely how future wars will be fought anyway. Why send troops into combat with all that deathy unpleasantness and support costs when we could send in gaggles of drones to do the nasty necessity?

Agreed. The only a problem is how we target the right people. But then, that's mostly a problem for the wrong people who happen to be in proximity to the right people. Of course, that only works if we are willing to kill ALL the opposition, or if they are willing to surrender. For people who want to die in jihad, that isn't likely. Of course, we did manage it with the Japanese Emperor without invading Japan, but we cannot use those tactics today.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

SCOTUS just temporarily lifted the stay.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/...ender-military.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

 

[senseamp]

Our rigged SCOTUS keeps plumbing new lows.

 

[vi edit]

Petty Petty Princess strikes again. Kicking out people that are actually volunteering their lives to protect and defend our country to keep a political base happy. So much winning..

 

[HomerJS]

Any other jobs the right wing want to deny trans people??

 

[Thebobo]

Shameful

 

[IronWing]

Any other jobs the right wing want to deny trans people??

This is a critical one as it carries the most cultural weight. First deny a minority the right to serve and then marginalize them further by declaring them less patriotic or disloyal for not serving. It makes it easier to deny them other rights they "didn't fight for". This tactic was used by the Ottomans against Christians and by everybody against the Jews.

 

[Thebobo]

This is a critical one as it carries the most cultural weight. First deny a minority the right to serve and then marginalize them further by declaring them less patriotic or disloyal for not serving. It makes it easier to deny them other rights they "didn't fight for". This tactic was used by the Ottoman's against Christians and by everybody against the Jews.

Good points.

 

[cfenton]

From the NYT article linked above:

In a statement released Tuesday, a Pentagon spokeswoman said the program was not a complete ban and that transgender troops would be treated with respect and dignity.
“It is critical,” Lt. Col. Carla M. Gleason said, that the Department of Defense “be permitted to implement personnel policies that it determines are necessary to ensure the most lethal and combat effective fighting force in the world.”
The department’s “proposed policy,” she said, “is based on professional military judgment and will ensure that the U.S. Armed Forces remain the most lethal and combat effective fighting force in the world.”

What's the argument here? How do transgender service members make the U.S. Armed Forces less lethal and combat effective? Repeating the claim twice without any argument makes me think there's no real justification for the claim.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So point of clarification. Apparently there is a second stay in Virginia I think it is for a case submitted by the ACLU... so the ban remains for now even with this ruling.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1087757107779330048