Fear and Loathing in Southern Florida

thebestMAX

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
7,479
112
106
Plagarized this title from Hunter S. Thompson but it seemed to fit. I gave a lot of thought about should I or should I not post this but WTH, here it is.

Posted most of this as an answer in another thread but thought maybe it deserved its own.

I live in SOUTHERN Fl. and have never seen such a concentration of stupidity in one place. Ive lived in over 12 states, visited and worked in most of the rest and thought Id seen it all until I got here.

Sometimes I do not think there is one competent person in the entire South of Florida. (Go ahead and make a stupid comment about me being here, I dont care) Maybe the state should be divided in 2 like they talk about being done in California. Never the less, I am leaving this zoo as soon as possibe.

I live in Palm Beach County where the controversy is. I voted and had no difficulty understanding the ballot. If you made a mistake, you could get a second ballot and destroy the first. BTW, the bigger concentration of old people is in the more southern couties. The only concentration here is the Democrats.

If Gore wins all this will go away but if Bush wins, we will never hear the end of the whining.

19,000 people voted for 2 candidates for Pres. They screwed up. They truely are TOO STUPID TO VOTE correctly. People are always in a hurry, dont read signs or instructions and then blame others. The fear in my thread title is that these are the type of people who pick our elected officials.

Heres a laugh;

I say there is the right way, the wrong way, the Army way and the good enough for Florida way. :D
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
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Biggest hurdle in splitting california: Nothern california has natural resources (ie: lumber, mining, WATER) southern california has commercial and industrial resources (ie: money, lawyers)

Northern california wouldn't be able to keep up the roads and southern california would sue to get free water.
 

sweetrobin

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2000
1,184
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It is nice to hear the point of view of someone who is there ... I will keep my fingers crossed that one way or the other this doesnt turn out to be a FUBAR situation ... which unfortunately I think it will no matter what happens ...
 

Blackhawk2

Senior member
May 1, 2000
455
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thebestMAX, seriously come up north and join us Canadians, there is alot less fuss and muss up here. We always like watching Americans squable like chickens running around with their heads cut off :D

Unfortunately of fortunately (depending on your view) the world is run by stupid people, its just another fact of life. Don't worry though they always get what they deserve in the end.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,000
111
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Heard a Palm Beach County resident on the radio news yesterday: "I couldn't understand the ballot, it was so confusing I don't know what I was doing. They have to let us vote again because I'd kill myself if I accidentally voted for Buchanan."

If you don't KNOW you voted wrong, why should you vote again? If you knew you did it wrong, why didn't you speak up then? Why go home and the next day suddenly decide you did it wrong?

 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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kranky,

Yeah, I wonder how many complaints of "confusion" would have surfaced if Bore had won. None, of course.

Russ, NCNE
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,409
189
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Stupid people deserve the vote too I'm afraid. You forget you live in a democracy where even their vote counts. Now as far as the intellectually "superior" go they will sit on opposite ends of the fence too, they are just more articulate at arguing their positions. NTM people whose first language isn't English either can be confused, but if they are citizens they have just as many rights as you.
If the "stupid" people didn't get to effectively voice their vote either by being too shy to ask, too old and easily confused, guess what, they used to be intellignet and probably more than you and still smarter at half the capacity, they should repoll.
I don't really care for a lot of peoples attitudes towards the elderly in this society. Their hard work and sacrifice has made our pathetic lives so cozy. Most other cultures revere their elderly out of RESPECT. Do the same
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
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desy: My opinion of the elderly is based on thier attitude for day to day tasks. On my dad's side both of my grandparents plan to stay living independantly and don't lean on others to do basic tasks. On my mom's side my grandma had leaned so heavily on my grandpa that even as he went senile she didn't bother to learn important tasks. This isn't my grandpa's fault, he had no choice. However my grandma is living in a trailer (thier 35' that they've owned for year, it's more of thier bedroom than anything, 70% of the time they're in the house) in front of our house while her new house gets built... one day she was following me home from helping me pick up my car from a mechanic, I took the freeway for 1 mile, she paniced, she last took a freeway onramp in 1976, two weeks ago was the first time ever that she pumped gas, she cannot or will not check her own propane level (involves reading two gauges), empty her holding tanks (involves pulling two handles). She has the attitude of "I'm old and I don't want to learn anything"...


...I applaude my dad's side for thier strong attitude, I feel sorry for my grandpa's condition, however I have a hard time feeling any sorrow for my grandma.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,000
111
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desy, there wasn't a word in this thread about the elderly prior to your post. Don't know why you brought that up.

I do not object to stupid people voting. But you can't allow people to vote a second time, because then the really, really stupid would want a third turn, etc. And it is illogical to say that if a stupid person couldn't get it right the first time, that magically they would be right on top of their game if they only had a second chance. Where I vote they have a desktop sample voting machine. You could play on that for an hour if you wanted to, to make sure you knew what you were doing before you pull the lever for real.

And the "too shy" argument - that flew out the window yesterday when they started screaming about being confused!
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
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I think the problem is that people are to shy to ask for a new ballot and admit that they messed up. 19000 is a pretty high number though.
 

bigvince

Banned
Aug 25, 2000
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there was an elderly woman from palm beach on MSNBC yesterday and in part of her interview she reffered to gore and lieberman as JOE Gore and AL Lieberman! now how can you complain about voteing for the wrong person if you can't even remeber thier names!!!!
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,409
189
106
I bring it up because they are implying it without saying it. You know, too politically incorrect, so they couch it with the "stupid" people remarks knowing full well what the major demographic is despite what max says. Being too shy does not automatically mean the people who are vocal were the shy ones or even a large portion of the shy. Just vocal.
Same for Demons comments reguarding his grandma, he is prejudicing his opion based on a tiny "one grandma" sampling of the population, it may be true but an incredbly poor way to come to a conclusion.
BTW get used to it the amount of seniors is growing rapidly and they are living longer than ever.
If the polling station is that flawed and there certainly seems to be growing evidence it was then it is not a FAIR poll, period.
 

Bob Dole is going to win this election like the Brooklyn Dodgers won the World Series!
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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desy: Of course stupid people have just as much right to vote as intelligent people, just as the uneducated have same right to vote as the educated. HOWEVER, this right does not come without obligations. It is a right to vote, but I would also consider it a civic obligation, which unfortunately too few people realize. Pursuant to that obligation or that right, is the duty to inform oneself and make an educated (in the sense of the issues, not diplomas) vote for the candidate that best represents your views. Further, everyone has the same opportunity to vote and the same materials to do so.

These voters in Palm Beach County received the ballot ahead of time, according to the Governor and the press, had every opportunity to examine the ballot and the machine before voting, and (this is critical) could have protested at the polling station or requested a new ballot if they had made a mistake. If they had THOUGHT they made a mistake, they should have requested a new ballot. Simply because they were embarrassed or only realized when they went home is not an excuse. Thousands of other voters punched Gore without issue.

We cannot and SHOULD NOT make this country accessible to the lowest common denominator. There are responsibilities on the part of citizens of this country -- we do not just have rights without obligation. That is the fallacy of the liberals -- entitlements without any restrictions, obligations, or responsibilities. If you cannot vote accurately, it is NOT the government's fault -- it is yours. ACCEPT that responsibility and live with it. Next time, take a little more and assert your right to either have someone help you or to redo the ballot until it is correct. We cannot bend over backwards for every single person who cannot handle their affairs. What's next? Pictures on the ballots since the illiterate cannot read the names?

Though the ballot in Georgia was different, I spent about a minute or so examining it in detail and reading the instructions for voting before punching anything. I ensured that I voted for my candidate in the proper manner. That's the least we can ask of every single voter in this country, and it's far from being a burdensome task.
 

Thorn

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,665
0
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We have almost exactly the same type of ballot in East TN and I've not heard any people here bitching about how they weren't able to understand it. After all, people in other states simply consider us to be backward "hicks". Surely something as difficult as a voting booth would have thrown us into a state of panic. :Q It's all very simple, if Gore weren't such a wanker he would've CARRIED HIS OWN STATE and he wouldn't be in this mess. Of course, the reason he lost TN is simple... we know him best. :p
 

IronMike

Senior member
Jun 24, 2000
356
0
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Read again Desy's comments. Stupid, crippled or any other handicap should not prevent your vote from being counted. We have accounts from many who voted and said they double punched a card, some asked for another, some were too embarrassed to ask, and others just figured they lost their vote.
Personally, I would be satisified with a recount. Even the flip of a coin at this point.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
Of course, had Bore won by a narrow margin, the NAACP would not be whining, and Jessuh Jacksuhhhn would not be there trying to get attention for himself.

AndrewR hit the nail on the head. Everyone should be allowed to vote, and any obstruction of someone's right to vote is serious and should be dealt with..... but your lack of common sense or shyness or simply stupidity does NOT entitle you to a 'second chance' to vote when noone else gets that chance. You screwed up... deal with it.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I say we just put Gore and Bush in the cage. Last man standing take the big chair. They could even do it during the WWF show. That'd draw quite an audience.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,409
189
106
Lets see the way colleges churn out "illiterate graduates" and illiteracy in public schools grows, just look at Texas, maybe a picture of the guy wouldn't be a bad idea then they can vote for the guy with the sincere face or smile. Kidding. . .
Look, these people tried to do their civic duty and something about the system for whatever reason is wrong. It doesn't mean they should have to forfeit their ability to cast their vote the way they wanted.
Yes, all of you would have done this or that and of course you are all perfect so who cares what screw-ups the citizens of Florida did.
Oops, citizens means they are just as important as you regardless of age, intelligence, race, income and social standing.
Its OBVIOUS there was a problem why are so many against righting a wrong?
I'm not speculating as to how they should try to fix it but can you just simply acknowledge something there went wrong?
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
You know, politicians assumed the public was too stupid to vote from the very beginning. That's why they setup the electoral college to vote for thier states. And by the letter the members of the electoral college DO NOT have to vote the way anyone tells them. If a member decided to go against the popular vote they can. This has happened (reason: to make sure Washington was the only one to win unanimously)
 

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