FDA recommends that doctors supervise genetic testing

RightIsWrong

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Apr 29, 2005
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This is just stupid. I have had this done via a company called 23 And Me (www.23andme.com) and the results are provided in a very easy to understand and very easy to interpret manner.

The fact that the FDA is recommending that a doctor be required to do this is pure stupidity and another case of government overstepping its boundaries.

"I would suggest that we are not ready yet to put this completely in the consumer's hands," said panelist Joann Boughman of the American Society of Human Genetics. "Each test is complex and when you have each provider doing slightly different tests, it complicates it even more."

The panel's consensus on new regulations is not binding on the FDA, but the agency usually follows the panel's advice.

The 21-member panel, predominantly a mix of physicians and academics, did not vote on specific questions during the first day of a two-day hearing which will conclude Wednesday. But members expressed general agreement that doctors should be in charge of ordering and interpreting the tests.

Panelists expressed particular concern that in current forms, testing provides incomplete results.

For example, a test to determine if someone is a carrier for cystic fibrosis might not screen for all of the genetic permutations that trigger the disease, meaning that a negative result could promote a false sense of security.

A negative test result is only part of the puzzle of assessing the probability of disease, said George Netto of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.

"It's very dangerous to get a false reassurance (from a test) when you don't know about environmental and other risk factors," Netto said.


The tests, and many other advances in genetic science, are a byproduct of the Human Genome Project, a 13-year international effort to identify and map the genes of human beings that was substantially completed in 2003.

Unlike genetic tests ordered by doctors, which are processed by a laboratory and delivered to the physician for review with the patient, direct-to-consumer testing allows individuals to get genetic information directly from a lab, without involving a health care provider.

Advocates of testing say it allows consumers to take a more active and better-informed role in their health care, and that consumers have a right to information about their genetic makeup.

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"We're not trying to substitute for a physician, we're simply providing a service that doesn't exist otherwise" so that doctor and patient can factor in genetic information in planning health care, said Jeff Gulcher, of deCODE Genetics, of Reykjavik, Iceland.

Critics argue that personal testing still is more art than science and lacks the precision to be an effective mass-market health care tool.

Doubts were fueled last July by a Government Accountability Office report that found that different companies came to different conclusions about the meaning of the same DNA sample.

In one example cited by GAO investigators, four companies evaluating the same DNA reported that the person supplying it had a below average, average and above average risk for prostate cancer and hypertension.

Jeremy Gruber, of the non-profit Council for Responsible Genetics, said test makers are overselling what they currently can deliver.

"Every player in the industry makes both explicit and implicit claims that knowing your genetic information will demonstrably improve your health; with few exceptions science is still progressing towards being able to make that case," Grubman told the advisory panel.

Direct-to-consumer tests have been available online for several years, but assumed a higher public profile last May, when Walgreens announced that it would sell one brand of test in its stores.

That prompted the FDA, which previously had publicly said little about the tests, to step in and declare that they needed to meet regulatory standards as medical devices.

Walgreens has shelved plans to sell the test until the regulatory uncertainty is cleared up, according to a spokesman.

An FDA spokeswoman said the agency doesn't know how many companies offer the tests but sent letters to several firms last spring and summer advising them the need to meet regulatory standards.

"We've since met with most of these companies and several of them have decided to discontinue their (direct-to-consumer) model. Others have elected to move forward and are in discussions with the agency about how to proceed through our review process," spokeswoman Erica Jefferson said.

The companies are allowed to continue selling their tests while coming into compliance, Jefferson said.

Simply amazing that a panel that consisted of doctors recommend that only doctors be able to administer the test. Also, if the same test that they are recommending is so unreliable (their terms not mine), then why would they want to recommend them? And lastly, when I see my next doctor that has been able to administer a test and state with 100% certainty that the results are exactly as they say they are, it will be the first one that I meet.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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It's a way to cut down on Fraud and Error. May or may not be necessary, but don't be surprised if some of these services get exposed as Frauds. Fraudsters just love to rush into Services that just spring up over night.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
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Agreed. If we want to decrease medical costs, a very easy way is to deregulate a lot of things. There are lots of doctors in this country, but not enough for them to perform every test, write every trivial prescription, and wipe every patient's butt for them. For example, a patient has to pay to see a doctor ($85) to get a prescription ($0.80) to get a 0.05% topical steroid for a rash. Why are dilute topical steroids controlled substances? Are kids "using" topical creams to get high? There are infinitely many examples of similar nonsense.

The bottom line is that the AMA and government are in cahoots and want control over every medical decision made in this country, and that drives costs much higher than they would be otherwise. It also lowers the supply of physicians for the treatment of things which actually require their level of expertise.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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It's a way to cut down on Fraud and Error. May or may not be necessary, but don't be surprised if some of these services get exposed as Frauds. Fraudsters just love to rush into Services that just spring up over night.
So, rather than enforcing existing anti-fraud laws, we'll restrict the supply of medical professionals even further by adding to the endless reams of regulation governing the industry? What could possibly go wrong? Physicians can be paid to commit fraud just like anyone else - it just costs more.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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So, rather than enforcing existing anti-fraud laws, we'll restrict the supply of medical professionals even further by adding to the endless reams of regulation governing the industry? What could possibly go wrong? Physicians can be paid to commit fraud just like anyone else - it just costs more.

Existing Laws don't have expertise in the subject of Genetics. That's why Medical Professionals being involved makes perfect sense.

The Free Market is not All Knowing, sorry.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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It's just another step in the nanny state process. You can't possibly be entrusted to make your own decisions, right? You need to pay a nice fee to a doctor to have him order the same test, probably at three times the cost of what you pay now, to get the same result.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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For example, a patient has to pay to see a doctor ($85) to get a prescription ($0.80) to get a 0.05% topical steroid for a rash. Why are dilute topical steroids controlled substances? Are kids "using" topical creams to get high? There are infinitely many examples of similar nonsense.

Why does the patient have a rash?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Existing Laws don't have expertise in the subject of Genetics. That's why Medical Professionals being involved makes perfect sense.

The Free Market is not All Knowing, sorry.

You're wrong, the free market is all knowing, it simply represents individuals making choices for themselves. If you think a medical professional being involved makes perfect sense, you are free to do so, why force me to do the same? How am I hurting you by doing my own test without consulting someone? Why use government power to force everyone else to agree with your point of view? Oh yeah, I forgot, you're a nanny stater.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Oh on the subject of health care, what does the free market say a rash is caused by?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Oh on the subject of health care, what does the free market say a rash is caused by?

Oh, snap I need to know.

Oh Great Free Market, what will the weather be in a month's time? I need to plan for a few days off. Great Free Market, are you so powerful that you can make a rock so big you can't lift it?

Get back to us. Just open an account here and post.

Thanks.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Oh on the subject of health care, what does the free market say a rash is caused by?

Since the "free market" is just an aggregation of individuals making choices for themselves, you'd have to ask each individual what they think the cause is. If someone isn't sure about the cause, they should probably check with their dr, but that's up to them, not me.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
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It's a way to cut down on Fraud and Error. May or may not be necessary, but don't be surprised if some of these services get exposed as Frauds. Fraudsters just love to rush into Services that just spring up over night.
By that you mean that it's a way for the doctor cartel to get their markup in on a growing market? I'm surprised we're still allowed to buy bandaids without cnsulting a physician.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Since the "free market" is just an aggregation of individuals making choices for themselves, you'd have to ask each individual what they think the cause is. If someone isn't sure about the cause, they should probably check with their dr, but that's up to them, not me.

So it's really a dumb Darwinian beast that doesn't know anything, but subject to the knowledge of the individual? That's some definition for all knowing.

Do you know that many commonplace surgeries could be done at home with a book and basic kitchen tools? Yep. You could remove your kids tonsils and skip the middleman.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
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Oh on the subject of health care, what does the free market say a rash is caused by?
A doctor will say 'oh look a rash', scribble out a scrip for some cream, and tell you to come back in two weeks if it isn't helping. Only then will they offer actual doctoring; why force the victim to go twice over this sort of thing.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Why does the patient have a rash?
Don't know - it's non-specific dermatitis. Try this steroid for a while and see if that clears it up. *scribble scribble* My dad's a primary care doc and my sister-in-law is a pharmacist, so I get to hear about this nonsense all the time. It drives them nuts that they have to spend their time dealing with this kind of thing instead of actually helping people who could really use some expertise applied to their problem.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Existing Laws don't have expertise in the subject of Genetics. That's why Medical Professionals being involved makes perfect sense.

The Free Market is not All Knowing, sorry.
Laws don't have expertise in anything. If a law says that fraud is illegal, then fraud is illegal. Simply because it doesn't specifically state that fraud committed against people submitting genetic materials for testing doesn't mean that that form of fraud isn't covered. And I never mentioned anything about the free market, but nice try.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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101
So it's really a dumb Darwinian beast that doesn't know anything, but subject to the knowledge of the individual? That's some definition for all knowing.

Do you know that many commonplace surgeries could be done at home with a book and basic kitchen tools? Yep. You could remove your kids tonsils and skip the middleman.

Oh, the horror, people making decisions for themselves and <gasp> dealing with the consequences of those decisions themselves.

A simple headache can be a symptom of lots of serious things, but yet people take a Tylenol or Motrin or something <gasp> without consulting a doctor. As long as you are not putting someone else at risk with your choices (like, for example, with antibiotics creating resistance, or with opiates creating dependence etc), I think everyone should decide for themselves how they want to handle their health and their business. What genetic tests you order doesn't impact me, have at it.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,824
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By that you mean that it's a way for the doctor cartel to get their markup in on a growing market? I'm surprised we're still allowed to buy bandaids without cnsulting a physician.

Well, that could be the case. Certainly some kind of investigation should take place and not a blank approval just because Medical Professionals say so.

However, Medical Professionals would be the go to guys to ensure everything was on the up and up.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
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Don't allow government regulation/oversight when it comes to decisions on the human body - unless it's abortion, then the government needs to stop things like that.

Let companies do whatever they want/can, in order to better the human condition - unless it's fetal stem cell research.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,824
6,371
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Laws don't have expertise in anything. If a law says that fraud is illegal, then fraud is illegal. Simply because it doesn't specifically state that fraud committed against people submitting genetic materials for testing doesn't mean that that form of fraud isn't covered. And I never mentioned anything about the free market, but nice try.

/facepalm

Someone needs to Identify Fraud. Only those aware of Proper Procedure and Practices can do this. What part of this do you not understand?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
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The market is anything but free, in that you're definitely not free from it. You can run from it, hide from it, but much more likely, attempt to manipulate it. In the long run it has, and will again, beat you like the dirty dog you are. You may not love it, but you better damn well respect it.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,925
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Why does the patient have a rash?

Oh on the subject of health care, what does the free market say a rash is caused by?

Oh, snap I need to know.

Oh Great Free Market, what will the weather be in a month's time? I need to plan for a few days off. Great Free Market, are you so powerful that you can make a rock so big you can't lift it?

Get back to us. Just open an account here and post.

Thanks.

What are you talking about?

Why does the patient have a headache? Do we need a Dr. to prescribe Tylenol?

Why does the patient have a cut? Do we need a Dr. to prescribe bandaids?

Why does the patient have a runny nose? Do we need a Dr. to prescribe tissues?
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
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Existing Laws don't have expertise in the subject of Genetics. That's why Medical Professionals being involved makes perfect sense.

The problem is that medical professionals don't have expertise in the subject of genetics, either. The typical doctor likely couldn't tell you the difference between translation and transcription, and (s)he sure as hell couldn't tell you how Asian flushing and esophageal cancer are related. Ask your family physician what a SNP chip is the next time you see them. :p

MDs and DOs are absolutely not needed to order and interpret genetic tests. A friend of mine is in the Genetic Counseling MS program here at UW-Madison and that seems the appropriate training for this type of work.

The bottom line is that we still know so little about how highly polygenic disease phenotypes even arise (see the issue of missing heritability), that there's very little a whole genome can tell you that a good family history can't.