FBI investigation determined Chinese-made Huawei equipment could disrupt US nuclear arsenal communications

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,853
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We allowed them to sell the equipment designed to do this to rural telecoms near ICBM facilities and military bases (we only discovered it because we realized they were selling the equipment at a loss to beat other bids), and have yet to remove any of it.


Also a stunning attempt:

In 2017, the Chinese government was offering to spend $100 million to build an ornate Chinese garden at the National Arboretum in Washington DC. Complete with temples, pavilions and a 70-foot white pagoda, the project thrilled local officials, who hoped it would attract thousands of tourists every year.
But when US counterintelligence officials began digging into the details, they found numerous red flags. The pagoda, they noted, would have been strategically placed on one of the highest points in Washington DC, just two miles from the US Capitol, a perfect spot for signals intelligence collection, multiple sources familiar with the episode told CNN.
Also alarming was that Chinese officials wanted to build the pagoda with materials shipped to the US in diplomatic pouches, which US Customs officials are barred from examining, the sources said.
Federal officials quietly killed the project before construction was underway.
The canceled garden is part of a frenzy of counterintelligence activity by the FBI and other federal agencies focused on what career US security officials say has been a dramatic escalation of Chinese espionage on US soil over the past decade.

More detail:


As early as the Obama administration, FBI agents were monitoring a disturbing pattern along stretches of Interstate 25 in Colorado and Montana, and on arteries into Nebraska. The heavily trafficked corridor connects some of the most secretive military installations in the US, including an archipelago of nuclear missile silos.
For years, small, rural telecom providers had been installing cheaper, Chinese-made routers and other technology atop cell towers up and down I-25 and elsewhere in the region. Across much of these sparsely populated swaths of the west, these smaller carriers are the only option for cell coverage. And many of them turned to Huawei for cheaper, reliable equipment.
Beginning in late 2011, Viaero, the largest regional provider in the area, inked a contract with Huawei to provide the equipment for its upgrade to 3G. A decade later, it has Huawei tech installed across its entire fleet of towers, roughly 1,000 spread over five western states.

As Huawei equipment began to proliferate near US military bases, federal investigators started taking notice, sources familiar with the matter told CNN. Of particular concern was that Huawei was routinely selling cheap equipment to rural providers in cases that appeared to be unprofitable for Huawei — but which placed its equipment near military assets.
Federal investigators initially began "examining [Huawei] less from a technical lens and more from a business/financial view," explained John Lenkart, a former senior FBI agent focused on counterintelligence issues related to China. Officials studied where Huawei sales efforts were most concentrated and looked for deals that "made no sense from a return-on-investment perspective," Lenkart said.
"A lot of [counterintelligence] concerns were uncovered based on" those searches, Lenkart said.
By examining the Huawei equipment themselves, FBI investigators determined it could recognize and disrupt DOD-spectrum communications — even though it had been certified by the FCC, according to a source familiar with the investigation.
"It's not technically hard to make a device that complies with the FCC that listens to nonpublic bands but then is quietly waiting for some activation trigger to listen to other bands," said Eduardo Rojas, who leads the radio spectrum lab at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida. "Technically, it's feasible."
To prove a device had clandestine capabilities, Rojas said, would require technical experts to strip down a device "to the semi-conductor level" and "reverse engineer the design." But, he said, it can be done.
And there was another big concern along I-25, sources familiar with the investigation said.
Weather camera worries 
Around 2014, Viaero started mounting high-definition surveillance cameras on its towers to live-stream weather and traffic, a public service it shared with local news organizations. With dozens of cameras posted up and down I-25, the cameras provided a 24-7 bird's eye view of traffic and incoming weather, even providing advance warning of tornadoes.
But they were also inadvertently capturing the movement of US military equipment and personnel, giving Beijing — or anyone for that matter — the ability to track the pattern of activity between a series of closely guarded military facilities.
The intelligence community determined the publicly posted live-streams were being viewed and likely captured from China, according to three sources familiar with the matter. Two sources briefed on the investigation at the time said officials believed that it was possible for Beijing's intelligence service to "task" the cameras — hack into the network and control where they pointed. At least some of the cameras in question were running on Huawei networks.
Viaero CEO Frank DiRico said it never occurred to him the cameras could be a national security risk.
"There's a lot of missile silos in areas we cover. There is some military presence," DiRico said in an interview from his Colorado office. But, he said, "I was never told to remove the equipment or to make any changes."
In fact, DiRico first learned of government concerns about Huawei equipment from newspaper articles — not the FBI — and says he has never been briefed on the matter.
DiRico doesn't question the government's insistence that he needs to remove Huawei equipment, but he is skeptical that China's intelligence services can exploit either the Huawei hardware itself or the camera equipment.
"We monitor our network pretty good," DiRico said, adding that Viaero took over the support and maintenance for its own networks from Huawei shortly after installation. "We feel we've got a pretty good idea if there's anything going on that's inappropriate."
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
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I recall a couple years back that Germany had decided to not allow Huawei equipment as part of its 5G infrastructure. Then reversed the decision. I've got a feeling that this kind of news may cause them to regret that decision.
 
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Jaskalas

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The canceled garden is part of a frenzy of counterintelligence activity by the FBI and other federal agencies focused on what career US security officials say has been a dramatic escalation of Chinese espionage on US soil over the past decade.

I begin to wonder if the microwave weapon attacks haven't been Chinese in origin. Instead of Russian.
Between this and the clearly rotten and hollowed out Russian Bear....

China is the only competent adversary we face on the world stage.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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I begin to wonder if the microwave weapon attacks haven't been Chinese in origin. Instead of Russian.
Between this and the clearly rotten and hollowed out Russian Bear....

China is the only competent adversary we face on the world stage.

I highly doubt the Havana syndrome is Radio Waves at all. No one can seem to replicate it and we have access to every frequency and band of radio wave in the spectrum. Every radio wave weapon we have built results in heat as the damage/deterrent. Nothing else.

That's just not how electromagnetic non-ionizing radiation works.



 
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zinfamous

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I don't know why they didn't just ship the materials for their pagoda to Trump Hotel in DC (when it still existed). It would have only cost them a few follows on Trump's Twitter account at the time.

Just sayin.
 
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zinfamous

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I highly doubt the Havana syndrome is Radio Waves at all. No one can seem to replicate it and we have access to every frequency and band of radio wave in the spectrum. Every radio wave weapon we have built results in heat as the damage/deterrent. Nothing else.

That's just not how electromagnetic non-ionizing radiation works.




It's not mass suggestion.

There are dozens of federal employees that have independently reported the same symptoms to their supervisors and physicians over several years now. It's Gulf Syndrome / 9/11 syndrome in the same way that a lot of nutjobs are appearing out of nowhere to discredit an actual class with a serious health problem because it is very specifically tied to national security.

This isn't going away. These people were targeted with a weapon--whether it was simply to steal data from their devices and their symptoms are a side-effect, or an actual direct attack on them, it is still a very real thing that is happening. We're past the point of pretending this isn't a thing.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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I highly doubt the Havana syndrome is Radio Waves at all. No one can seem to replicate it and we have access to every frequency and band of radio wave in the spectrum. Every radio wave weapon we have built results in heat as the damage/deterrent. Nothing else.
Edit: Zinfamous beat me to it.

Directed Energy Weapon symptoms match most of the symptoms reported by these 'Havana Syndrome' events. The real stickler is that multiple persons independently reported experiencing the same symptoms, with no awareness of what others were experiencing in other rooms or areas (because no one else was present with them), discounting any 'power of suggestion' influenced by what others were experiencing/reporting at the same time.
 
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Amused

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Edit: Zinfamous beat me to it.

Directed Energy Weapon symptoms match most of the symptoms reported by these 'Havana Syndrome' events. The real stickler is that multiple persons independently reported experiencing the same symptoms, with no awareness of what others were experiencing in other rooms or areas (because no one else was present with them), discounting any 'power of suggestion' influenced by what others were experiencing/reporting at the same time.

My issue is this: No one can replicate the effects. I'm sorry, but no radio wave weapon causes the symptoms they describe, much less without heat.

To date, ALL directed energy weapons deter with ONE main symptom: HEAT.

It just defies the laws of physics.

My first and third links go over this in detail.

And this is derailing my thread.

What was a thread on using telecom equipment to spy on us has been hijacked into an unrelated conspiracy.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,274
36,388
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For years I've had fans of China mock me for predicting this, with Hauwei and others. Really hope more Americans start waking up to what China is doing, news like this is important. The thing in DC, the facility in ND, China is the world's biggest most comprehensive espionage and IP theft program in history, and seeks our downfall. It's really way beyond time people wake the hell up about it.

Count me as someone who doesn't buy the mass hysteria explanation for what's been happening to our diplomats, others. Too many people involved, too many times, and it's also affected Canadians IIRC, which fits with some countries not liking our historical cooperation with Canada, that tendency for Americans and Canadians to pass for one another over seas.

Chinese equipment and Chinese nationals both need to be isolated away from sensitive equipment and areas, and we have to get as serious about it as they are with orchestrating a future defeat.
 
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zinfamous

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My issue is this: No one can replicate the effects. I'm sorry, but no radio wave weapon causes the symptoms they describe, much less without heat.

You're right, and that's what makes this difficult. It's the real issue here and it's not actually unique to this syndrome (I'm ignoring what it possibly could be right now--some sort of weapon--because that isn't particularly relevant to this sort of universal struggle that comes with medicine/diagnosis/science in general).

You can look at people that suffer from "mergellans" as being whacakdoos, who believe that invisible little spiders are implanting tiny fibers under their skin....because outside of this issue, these people are generally "off the scale" anyway, but there is very clearly something going on with what these people are experiencing. We just can't see it. Ditto to the Chronic Lyme's disease sufferers, who have, for decades now, sort of filtered off to the fringe of patient communities that have established their own cultish little self-diagnosing and self-treating community because medicine has generally abandoned them, due to absolutely no available evidence that any of them present any testable disease. (I mean, that one I tend to think is pretty fucking mental, but see below....)

Medicine is limited to the tools that it has, which limits what we can see. It's a central problem with cancer as well. As imaging and molecular tools beyond imaging improve, we learn things that we never knew years before: say, all cancer is metastatic all the time, we can only see the cells that manage to implant themselves elsewhere and establish new tumors. There is no Star Trek scanner that can scan the body and absolutely see everything going on, all the time, and spit out a complete complement of data...as well as offer a complete and perfect diagnosis (seriously: what is the point of "doctors" in the Star Trek world? Their little IPad did everything)

Pain is a weird thing anyway. The entire field of pain works with a system that it doesn't really understand, and can never actually see. There isn't a tool that exists that can see pain. It's entirely dependent on patient assessment, and secondary signals, which are also mostly dependent on patient assessment. It's also typically accepted that pain "doesn't actually exist" as there is plenty of data that tests for pain, suggesting that the human brain can be tricked into pretending pain doesn't exist, and therefore no pain is experienced. (without drugs). (...back to the chronic Lyme's people: if pain and certain symptoms can be essentially disappeared with brain trickery, it can certainly be created with the same. And I don't think that makes it "not real." There are, of course, DSM-characterized disorders whereby patients seek illness(es) as a means of attention-seeking. ...I think Chronic Lyme's might be one of those, even though the "pain and symptoms" are real enough to them and they do experience it) See also: Chuck McGill in Better Call Saul, and the RL "electrostatic-sensitive people."

Anyway, this isn't a pain thing, but there are real physiological symptoms that these people are experiencing, but are also outside of standard testing protocols. There's really only a small number of VA and other federal network physicians that are, essentially legally bound to deny the validity of this, but enough private physicians are out there that have worked with these patients can confirm that this is happening, even though they don't know wtf is going on.

Also consider, and this is important, that the patient population for Havana Syndrome absolutely does not fit at all with the pretty much identical kind of patient population you see with Mergellans, electromagneticwhatevers, chronic Lymes, etc....these aren't "fringe" people with a history of the same kind of attention-seeking, anti-modern medicine, ~anti-social etc etc.

(Also consider that we've got another fast-growing comparable population with Long-Covid. This sort of denial is primarily insurance and political-based, however. I work within NHLBI and I get daily updates on research coming out of this over the last year. Long Covid is absolutely very real and very testable, which makes the kind of denial you see coming out of certain agencies absolutely appalling.)
 

DaaQ

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Dec 8, 2018
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You're right, and that's what makes this difficult. It's the real issue here and it's not actually unique to this syndrome (I'm ignoring what it possibly could be right now--some sort of weapon--because that isn't particularly relevant to this sort of universal struggle that comes with medicine/diagnosis/science in general).

You can look at people that suffer from "mergellans" as being whacakdoos, who believe that invisible little spiders are implanting tiny fibers under their skin....because outside of this issue, these people are generally "off the scale" anyway, but there is very clearly something going on with what these people are experiencing. We just can't see it. Ditto to the Chronic Lyme's disease sufferers, who have, for decades now, sort of filtered off to the fringe of patient communities that have established their own cultish little self-diagnosing and self-treating community because medicine has generally abandoned them, due to absolutely no available evidence that any of them present any testable disease. (I mean, that one I tend to think is pretty fucking mental, but see below....)

Medicine is limited to the tools that it has, which limits what we can see. It's a central problem with cancer as well. As imaging and molecular tools beyond imaging improve, we learn things that we never knew years before: say, all cancer is metastatic all the time, we can only see the cells that manage to implant themselves elsewhere and establish new tumors. There is no Star Trek scanner that can scan the body and absolutely see everything going on, all the time, and spit out a complete complement of data...as well as offer a complete and perfect diagnosis (seriously: what is the point of "doctors" in the Star Trek world? Their little IPad did everything)

Pain is a weird thing anyway. The entire field of pain works with a system that it doesn't really understand, and can never actually see. There isn't a tool that exists that can see pain. It's entirely dependent on patient assessment, and secondary signals, which are also mostly dependent on patient assessment. It's also typically accepted that pain "doesn't actually exist" as there is plenty of data that tests for pain, suggesting that the human brain can be tricked into pretending pain doesn't exist, and therefore no pain is experienced. (without drugs). (...back to the chronic Lyme's people: if pain and certain symptoms can be essentially disappeared with brain trickery, it can certainly be created with the same. And I don't think that makes it "not real." There are, of course, DSM-characterized disorders whereby patients seek illness(es) as a means of attention-seeking. ...I think Chronic Lyme's might be one of those, even though the "pain and symptoms" are real enough to them and they do experience it) See also: Chuck McGill in Better Call Saul, and the RL "electrostatic-sensitive people."

Anyway, this isn't a pain thing, but there are real physiological symptoms that these people are experiencing, but are also outside of standard testing protocols. There's really only a small number of VA and other federal network physicians that are, essentially legally bound to deny the validity of this, but enough private physicians are out there that have worked with these patients can confirm that this is happening, even though they don't know wtf is going on.

Also consider, and this is important, that the patient population for Havana Syndrome absolutely does not fit at all with the pretty much identical kind of patient population you see with Mergellans, electromagneticwhatevers, chronic Lymes, etc....these aren't "fringe" people with a history of the same kind of attention-seeking, anti-modern medicine, ~anti-social etc etc.

(Also consider that we've got another fast-growing comparable population with Long-Covid. This sort of denial is primarily insurance and political-based, however. I work within NHLBI and I get daily updates on research coming out of this over the last year. Long Covid is absolutely very real and very testable, which makes the kind of denial you see coming out of certain agencies absolutely appalling.)

Just wanted to reply on the pain thing. It really is subjective. I drove a forklift for 12 years, had severe back pain. Moved to another state, took a physically enduring job, and almost entirely eliminated my back pain. It only presents if I lay in bed for more than a day, typically over 12 hours or so, it does start hurting again and I MUST get up and start moving.

After leaving the forklift job, I started a job that put me into contact with ticks. I have markers for having had Human Ehrlichiosis, I do beleive I have been infected with Lyme as well. But no doctors will attempt to treat it, IDK how it's even treated. I just ended up with a 1800$ testing bill.

AFAIK I don't have the allergic reaction to red meat. Maybe don't eat enough to detect. I do have fatigue, aches, muscle cramps, joint pain, ect, that I treat with Aleeve and just getting my ass out of bed and working.

I've been bitten by ticks more than I can count. Got into a nest of the small ones under what looked like a nice house. My wife and I stopped counting after 100. For that day, being pulled off me. I get bit, it will itch for months. Leaves a scar, and will start itching again if I scratch the area too much, more that 6 months later.

Subjective I know, just wanted to comment on it.
 
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tcsenter

Lifer
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I think Chronic Lyme's might be one of those, even though the "pain and symptoms" are real enough to them and they do experience it) See also: Chuck McGill in Better Call Saul, and the RL "electrostatic-sensitive people."
Evidence continues to mount of a basis for at least some post-infection chronic maladies after tick-borne illness. e.g. drug resistant "persister cells" of Borrelia, antibiotic resistance of Borrelia in non-human primates, bacterial DNA (but not complete cells, unable to culture) that are present in some people after receiving supposedly-adequate 'gold standard' treatment and then retreatment, similar to West Nile RNA being detected in renal cells and urine of some people long after evidence of 'active' infection.

I think for the vast majority, their infection is in fact cleared the first or second time, but for some an alteration in immune system function persists. There are many precedents. e.g. Chronic West Nile (post-infection) 'syndrome' that can last for months or years. Chronic auto-immune like symptoms or sequelae following infection with C. jejuni, as well as Guillain-Barre Syndrome and reactive arthritis (both having a fatality rate) up to two years after infection.

There is much we should be really doubly sure about before throwing people who are suffering under the bus of 'malingerers' and 'mental cases'.
 
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zinfamous

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Evidence continues to mount of a basis for at least some post-infection chronic maladies after tick-borne illness. e.g. drug resistant "persister cells" of Borrelia, antibiotic resistance of Borrelia in non-human primates, bacterial DNA (but not complete cells, unable to culture) that are present in some people after receiving supposedly-adequate 'gold standard' treatment and then retreatment, similar to West Nile DNA being detected in renal cells and urine of some people long after evidence of 'active' infection.

I think for the vast majority, their infection is in fact cleared the first or second time, but for some an alteration in immune system function persists. There are many precedents. e.g. Chronic West Nile (post-infection) 'syndrome' that can last for months or years. Chronic auto-immune like symptoms or sequelae following infection with C. jejuni, as well as Guillain-Barre Syndrome and reactive arthritis (both having a fatality rate) up to two years after infection.

There is much we should be really doubly sure about before throwing people who are suffering under the bus of 'malingerers' and 'mental cases'.

neat, but I wouldn't be too concerned about old DNA being found. It doesn't really do any thing if there's no evidence of/ability for that DNA being active. Hell, our entire genome is like, 3% ancient viral DNA. :D

(I don't recall if it provides any kind of immunity, or just been hijacked for various promotor purposes or what have you....another thing that came about maybe only 25 years or so ago in the paradigm of Biology: that ~70% of whatever "Junk DNA"--a term no longer used--actually does a lot of work, even if it doesn't specifically code for functional proteins)
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
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I don't know why they didn't just ship the materials for their pagoda to Trump Hotel in DC (when it still existed). It would have only cost them a few follows on Trump's Twitter account at the time.

Just sayin.
Unlike you and the other useful idiots of the Democrats, Trump tried to get people to focus on China and not Russia, but the Democrats couldn't backup their narrative without constant poking of Russia. They got their wish to restart a conflict with Russia and allow their Chinese buddies to go back under the radar.
 
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GodisanAtheist

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Nov 16, 2006
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I think we've all lined up the dots on Trump, Russia, Witholding weapons aid from Ukraine, threatening to withdraw from NATO, slapping sanctions back on Iranian oil to make Europe more dependent on Russian oil... well, most of us have the dots lined up anyway...

China has and will be for the foreseeable future a serious competitor on the world stage, but it's definitely not the only one.

Trump only focused on them because he was not beholden to them in the same way. Hell, maybe he did it because a strong China is bad for Russia, I dunno.

Regardless, credit where credit is due, he did take some drastic but necessary measures against China's growing influence in the US.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Unlike you and the other useful idiots of the Democrats, Trump tried to get people to focus on China and not Russia, but the Democrats couldn't backup their narrative without constant poking of Russia. They got their wish to restart a conflict with Russia and allow their Chinese buddies to go back under the radar.

Remember when Trump publicly stroked Xi's cock when Xi threw a little parade for him?

It seems that you don't remember that. Yes, Trump said a lot of things about Gina and he wasn't always wrong about them, but in reality, he actually kneeled like a bitch and opened wide for whatever Xi wanted of the US. This is a fact of the world as it is. It's weird that you are unaware of this plain fact, isn't it?

Trump's criminal family also colluded multiple times with Russia to win the election in 2016, as admitted to by Trump's own family. This is sworn testimony and publicly tweeted statements. That actually happened. It's weird that you call it an "unproven narrative" when it is a documented and proven thing that actually happened.

Why do you believe things that actually happened in front of your face, when the people that did them tell you that they did them, didn't actually happen? Why are you this way?
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
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Remember when Trump publicly stroked Xi's cock when Xi threw a little parade for him?

It seems that you don't remember that. Yes, Trump said a lot of things about Gina and he wasn't always wrong about them, but in reality, he actually kneeled like a bitch and opened wide for whatever Xi wanted of the US. This is a fact of the world as it is. It's weird that you are unaware of this plain fact, isn't it?

Trump's criminal family also colluded multiple times with Russia to win the election in 2016, as admitted to by Trump's own family. This is sworn testimony and publicly tweeted statements. That actually happened. It's weird that you call it an "unproven narrative" when it is a documented and proven thing that actually happened.

Why do you believe things that actually happened in front of your face, when the people that did them tell you that they did them, didn't actually happen? Why are you this way?
Looks like someone is still reading the dossier and the Mueller report. What's next? I bet you are going to tell us again how evil those Covington kids are and how they attacked that poor Native American elder. C'mon man!
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Looks like someone is still reading the dossier and the Mueller report. What's next? I bet you are going to tell us again how evil those Covington kids are and how they attacked that poor Native American elder. C'mon man!

remember trumps shitty trade war that accomplished raising prices for all Americans and farmers that we had to bail out, again? I’m sure you don’t.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,583
29,206
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Looks like someone is still reading the dossier and the Mueller report. What's next? I bet you are going to tell us again how evil those Covington kids are and how they attacked that poor Native American elder. C'mon man!

Looks like you didn't read the Mueller Report. If you hate treasonous criminal scum, then you must really hate the Trump family!
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
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Looks like you didn't read the Mueller Report. If you hate treasonous criminal scum, then you must really hate the Trump family!
The report had no supporting evidence to support any claims. It was full of conjecture and unproven accusations. I remember when Mueller was testifying in front of the Senate and no idea of what was in his report and repeatedly would not support any claims of obstruction. We can cover this debunked conspiracy again.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,021
26,900
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The report had no supporting evidence to support any claims. It was full of conjecture and unproven accusations. I remember when Mueller was testifying in front of the Senate and no idea of what was in his report and repeatedly would not support any claims of obstruction. We can cover this debunked conspiracy again.
Back to lying, I see. Poor Brandon, wasting his life spewing lies no one believes anyway.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,219
14,905
136
I think we've all lined up the dots on Trump, Russia, Witholding weapons aid from Ukraine, threatening to withdraw from NATO, slapping sanctions back on Iranian oil to make Europe more dependent on Russian oil... well, most of us have the dots lined up anyway...

China has and will be for the foreseeable future a serious competitor on the world stage, but it's definitely not the only one.

Trump only focused on them because he was not beholden to them in the same way. Hell, maybe he did it because a strong China is bad for Russia, I dunno.

Regardless, credit where credit is due, he did take some drastic but necessary measures against China's growing influence in the US.


Can you elaborate on this? What measures are you talking about?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,563
15,777
136
@brandonbull please go here and watch the short video it’s not too late man. I’ve fallen into the trap myself at times.