FBI creating a police state and using 9/11 as an excuse to do so

I just read this article - http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-933202.html and it's got me pretty upset.

The FBI is exanding their power to monitor us and using 9/11 as the reason. That's good and all to catch terrorists but I will be damned if I am going to lose my rights as an American because of 9/11. That's exactly what the terrorists want!

I would rather die in an attack than have to give up the rights I had on 9/10. Sure what they propose may stop an attack, but what happens the next time they miss the clues and we get hit? Soon enough we will be living in cold war Russia.

I really got to find somewhere to protest this. It's totally getting out of hand.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dwell
I just read this article - http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-933202.html and it's got me pretty upset.

The FBI is exanding their power to monitor us and using 9/11 as the reason. That's good and all to catch terrorists but I will be damned if I am going to lose my rights as an American because of 9/11. That's exactly what the terrorists want!

I would rather die in an attack than have to give up the rights I had on 9/10. Sure what they propose may stop an attack, but what happens the next time they miss the clues and we get hit? Soon enough we will be living in cold war Russia.

I really got to find somewhere to protest this. It's totally getting out of hand.

Well, while it's not quite as bad as all that, YET... it does worry me some and I feel they've started on a dangrous trend.

BTW, there have been many threads already started on this topic. The search button is your friend

 

[gooneygoon]

I really got to find somewhere to protest this.

Here is a good start, so many people come to AT.

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, things should be tightened since they need to be in order to hopefully stop another attack.

Mixed in that I think I'd rather have more peace of mind not being killed by these morons and lose some freedoms.
Freedoms that may have always been too liberal to begin with.

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

 

BTW, there have been many threads already started on this topic. The search button is your friend

Sorry, searched for FBI and did not see anything.

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

Then the terrorists have won

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: gooneygoon

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

We were attacked in 1941 w/o warning and we didn't have the FBI wiretapping our phones. The WTC was bombed about 10 years ago and this didn't happen. What about Oklahoma City?

There have alsways and will always be terrorists attacks. There have been only a handful of attacks on the United States in the last 50 years without us losing or rights. There will probably not be more than a handful of attacks in the next 50 years, regardless of whether our rights are restricted or not.

Think of it this way - if wiretapping, natinoal ID cards, 4 hour waits at airports, Tracking your mail, certificates and papers for border crossings, and restrictions on visitors tothe United States could have stopped the Pearl Harbor attack (I know they wouldn't have, but that's not the point - assume they could have), would you have prefferred the atack on Pearl Harbor, or the attack on our liberties?

I'd say: To the victims of Pearl Harbor - rest in peace, you died to protect our way of life.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: gooneygoon

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

We were attacked in 1941 w/o warning and we didn't have the FBI wiretapping our phones. The WTC was bombed about 10 years ago and this didn't happen. What about Oklahoma City?

There have alsways and will always be terrorists attacks. There have been only a handful of attacks on the United States in the last 50 years without us losing or rights. There will probably not be more than a handful of attacks in the next 50 years, regardless of whether our rights are restricted or not.

Think of it this way - if wiretapping, natinoal ID cards, 4 hour waits at airports, Tracking your mail, certificates and papers for border crossings, and restrictions on visitors tothe United States could have stopped the Pearl Harbor attack (I know they wouldn't have, but that's not the point - assume they could have), would you have prefferred the atack on Pearl Harbor, or the attack on our liberties?

I'd say: To the victims of Pearl Harbor - rest in peace, you died to protect our way of life.

Give me an attack over my loss of liberties. Nobody ever claimed freedom was safe, only free. And I'd rather be free and in some danger, than oppressed and safe any day.

 

[gooneygoon]

I have witnessed plenty of comparisons of pearl harbor and the WTC.

The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military target, a declaration of war.

What terrorists do is cowardice.

 

[Viper GTS]

You as the public have to choose which is more important to you - your freedom or your safety.

With all the dumbasses tearing the government a new asshole over not stopping 9/11, you're going to get EXACTLY what you're asking for.

Take your pick, both have their costs.

Viper GTS

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: gooneygoon
I have witnessed plenty of comparisons of pearl harbor and the WTC.

The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military target, a declaration of war.

What terrorists do is cowardice.

Still, that has absolutely nothing to do with my point.

 

Originally posted by: dwell

BTW, there have been many threads already started on this topic. The search button is your friend

Sorry, searched for FBI and did not see anything.

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

Then the terrorists have won

Well, they have not won. If their goal was the change the US, then I suppose they have. But their goal was to make America live in fear and be opressed, which they have failed.

As for the FBI, this has happened many times before in history, and this is no different. Everytime we go to war with another nation, we tend to generalize those from that area. WWI it was the germans. Many germans in the country were shunned and could not find a job. Many had backround checks and profiles put upon them. Near the 1930's though, that was relaxed and things changed back to where they were.

WWII roles around and you have the same thing, only this time with the Japs. Profiling and generalizing are part of it. Security tightened across the board and Japs could not find jobs easily and were again, shunned from many places. And again, after 10-15 years, it was back to normal for most of society.

This time, it is no different. We are at war with terrorists, and a clear majority of them come from Middle Eastern Discent. Are we generalizing and scrutenizing every Arab? Yes, we should be, as they have represented the clearest danger. In 10-15 years, the war on terror will not have been won in terms of getting rid of it, but the US will change back to what it was and the cycle starts all over again.

 

[XZeroII]

Well, they have not won. If their goal was the change the US, then I suppose they have. But their goal was to make America live in fear and be opressed, which they have failed

Correction, they have won, not failed. The FBI is praying off of people's fears and that is why we are losing freedoms. If you want security and no freedom, goto China. That's what you are trying to turn us into. How many freedoms are you willing to sacrifice before it's too many? Would you object to having to ask the gov't for permission to goto the store for food? That will happen eventually the way things are going, because the gov't will know exactly where everyone is at all times. As I said, if you are ok with that, live in China. Don't screw us up here with your socialist ways.

 

[UltraQuiet]

The FBI is praying off of people's fears and that is why we are losing freedoms

What freedoms have you lost?

 

[JellyBaby]

If their goal was the change the US, then I suppose they have. But their goal was to make America live in fear and be opressed, which they have failed.

Their goal is to murder all non-Islamic peoples. Take a gander at what's going on today in Indonesia. Our only reponse can be to do the same to them.

From all I hear the biggest problems at the FBI involve focusing on the wrong areas, too much bureacracy and lack of interdepartmental communication. Umm, so why not fix that instead of reinstating "police state" powers, powers which were taken away from them decades before due to abuse? Answer: doing the later is easy while tackling the former is not.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
You as the public have to choose which is more important to you - your freedom or your safety.

With all the dumbasses tearing the government a new asshole over not stopping 9/11, you're going to get EXACTLY what you're asking for.

Take your pick, both have their costs.

Viper GTS

that is exactly what i was going to say. people complain the govt didn't do enough to stop the 9/11 attacks, now they complain that we are doing too much to stop another one.

both have costs like viper said.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
You as the public have to choose which is more important to you - your freedom or your safety.

With all the dumbasses tearing the government a new asshole over not stopping 9/11, you're going to get EXACTLY what you're asking for.

Take your pick, both have their costs.

Viper GTS

that is exactly what i was going to say. people complain the govt didn't do enough to stop the 9/11 attacks, now they complain that we are doing too much to stop another one.

both have costs like viper said.

People complaining about the government not doing enough to stop 9/11 are doing so for precisely the same reasons they complained about Pearl Harbor not being stopped. The information was there in little pieces spread among various parts of the government and just like Pearl Harbor ignored until it was too late. No civil liberties had to be curtailed to act on this information had the coordination been there.

 

People complaining about the government not doing enough to stop 9/11 are doing so for precisely the same reasons they complained about Pearl Harbor not being stopped. The information was there in little pieces spread among various parts of the government and just like Pearl Harbor ignored until it was too late. No civil liberties had to be curtailed to act on this information had the coordination been there.

I don't think even if the FBI had tons more power to spy there would be a 100% chance they could have stopped 9/11. The perpetrators were a very tight group. Even many of Osama's main men didn't know the details of the operation.

Giving the government the right to track our web surfing or intercept our email is only going to help investigate domestic cases. Like I said, it's one step closer to a police state and it has nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Giving the government the right to track our web surfing or intercept our email is only going to help investigate domestic cases

Has something happened where they are now allowed to do that? Give me a link please.

 

[FlashG]

"Give me liberty or give me death."

I chose to risk terrorist attack rather than be cowed into a false sense of security. No one (or group) can completely protect us from the bad intentions of hate groups.

I for one am willing to assume the risk with a MINIMUM of control of my freedom. Otherwise we truly will have lost.

 

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Has something happened where they are now allowed to do that? Give me a link please.

The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday will examine proposed Justice Department guidelines that would give federal investigators new license to mine publicly available databases and monitor Web use. The changes, which come after a major FBI shakeup last week, have sparked intense debate over the merits of expanding government surveillance powers as the country faces ongoing threats of terrorist attacks.

I don't know specifically about intercepting emails, but it seems to fall into the theme.

 

[HellRaiserandBeerDrinker]

Well d'oh

What do you expect with a dinosaur like Ashcroft at the helm?
Nakedness is not a crime

The facts are if the FBI and CIA were running the way they should be
Sept 11 would never have happened!
They had plenty of facts. It was never assimilated properly.

Someone needs to shake up all that bureaucracy
so it functions like it should.

More rules is NOT THE ANSWER!

 

[UltraQuiet]

I don't know specifically about intercepting emails, but it seems to fall into the theme.

That's exactly my point, you don't know. Muller and Ashcroft have outlined specifically what will and won't be allowed . However that doesn't stop you and all your ignorant buddies from posting BS in this thread and a hundred others. Try finding out what the truth is instead of just reading one news article, listening to one sound bite or reading the banner going across the bottom of your TV.

 

[tcsenter]

Wrong thread...hehe

 

That's exactly my point, you don't know. Muller and Ashcroft have outlined specifically what will and won't be allowed . However that doesn't stop you and all your ignorant buddies from posting BS in this thread and a hundred others. Try finding out what the truth is instead of just reading one news article, listening to one sound bite or reading the banner going across the bottom of your TV.

Even if they cannot intercept email, they do want to track internet surfing. Is that not enough for you? Do you want to live in a country where the government can spy on you? What's even worse is that they are using 9/11 as they excuse. Did all those people die so some fat fed can watch me surf pr0n sites?

 

[AaronP]

I say good. I don't want our main federal law enforcement agency to be a bunch of panzies because they're handicapped by a bunch of lame ass PC regulations and rules.

And stop crying like some damn commie beatnik son of a bltch. These changes will not affect the life of John Q. Citizen one damn bit. It will make it tougher for evil doers and terrorists though!

 

[Speedy3D!]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: gooneygoon

Life is not going to be the same. Ever. Get used to it.

We were attacked in 1941 w/o warning and we didn't have the FBI wiretapping our phones. The WTC was bombed about 10 years ago and this didn't happen. What about Oklahoma City?

There have alsways and will always be terrorists attacks. There have been only a handful of attacks on the United States in the last 50 years without us losing or rights. There will probably not be more than a handful of attacks in the next 50 years, regardless of whether our rights are restricted or not.

Think of it this way - if wiretapping, natinoal ID cards, 4 hour waits at airports, Tracking your mail, certificates and papers for border crossings, and restrictions on visitors tothe United States could have stopped the Pearl Harbor attack (I know they wouldn't have, but that's not the point - assume they could have), would you have prefferred the atack on Pearl Harbor, or the attack on our liberties?

I'd say: To the victims of Pearl Harbor - rest in peace, you died to protect our way of life.

Give me an attack over my loss of liberties. Nobody ever claimed freedom was safe, only free. And I'd rather be free and in some danger, than oppressed and safe any day.

Agreed.