Fans, fans, fans

[hifisoftware]

I have a case where I can put up to seven 80mm fans. I guess this means that even low speed/quiet fans will push enough air to cool my case enough. After reading this forum I realized that panaflo fans are very popular, yet they do not seem to have an best specs. For instance:

Vantec Stealth
Airflow: 27 CFM
Power Consumption: 1.20W
Noise Output: 21dBA

Panaflo L1A 24CFM
Airflow: 24.0 CFM
Noise: 21.0 dBA
Power Consumption: 0.82 W

Vantec seems to push more air at the less noise. That is is specs are correct. Did any one did a comparison between fans within this noise range? I really do not want to trust specs, unless there is not other info around. I tried to search for some reviews comparing different fans, but could not find any.

What about CVS fans. http://www.svc.com/powcool80314.html Are they any good? Seem to have decent specs and dirt cheap.

Opinions about other good fans would be nice too (even if size is different)

 

[xbassman]

I can't speak about the Vantec fan specifically, but Definately don't believe what you read reguarding noise specs of DC fans.
Of the 7 or 8 brands of fan I have tried, Panaflo is the quietest, even when specs say they aren't.
NMB's are very quiet also, Dell uses them. I never had much luck finding NMB's in stock though.

Right now in my personal rig I have 6 case fans. 3 Panaflo H1A's and 3 L1A's. I have the H1A's and a U1A (on my heatsink) hooked up to a fan controller. When I run the higher speed fans down to 7v They are very quiet. Actually, the main reason I am even running the H1A's is I am overclocked using onboard graphics and my chipset needs a little help when running graphics intensive applications.

As to the fan you linked to SVC is pretty good about answering questions. Personally though, at the price they are offering L1A's I would wait for them to get more in stock and buy those.

 

[Davegod]

specs = lies

Consider how to measure the noise they make... How far away should the measurement tool be? Should it be in line of the airflow (much more noise) or off to the side? what tool to measure with? background noise? Now consider there is NO standard, and these measurements arent exactly being taken by a objective 3rd party auditor or something. BTW similar can go for the airflow measurements also - holding a fan up by itself in free air will work a lot better than one attatched to a PC case.. it's a bit like saying what the max mph of a car is, without telling you its weight, horsepower or wether it was going downhill etc.

On top of that, is it a OK deep airflow noise or a nasty high pitched whine from the bearings?

 

[hifisoftware]

That kinda sucks. This all makes it more subjective and harder to choose. I think I will get Panaflo then. What's the best place to get them? I usually get my stuff at newegg, but they do not carry panaflo. SVC seems to have good prices, maybe I should try them?

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: Davegod
Now consider there is NO standard, and these measurements arent exactly being taken by a objective 3rd party auditor or something.

There actually is a "standard". Fan noise specs are generally taken from a distance of 1M measured in an semi-anechoic chamber with a very low background noise level (obviously quieter fans need a lower background level). The actual level of background noise isn't that important as it can only raise the noise measurement for the fan. Applying the (A) filter to the decibel meter standardizes the DB level to mimic the actual hearing ranges of the human ear. Large manufacturers will state this up front and even have it detailed (like Panasonic does Panaflo's or Delta does).

Airflow measurements can also be compared easily by looking at the CFM-static pressure chart. CFM numbers are given at zero pressure (where they're at their highest). Throw it into a case with stamped out grilles that have only 5% of free space and the static pressure skyrockets and CFM plummets.

If you want to continue the car analogy, specs do need to be taken with a grain of salt. Just like cars will produce different HP numbers off the line (engine to engine variation, changes in production line, CARB, etc.), fans will have variation too. Looking at one number (either HP in cars or CFM in fans) doesn't tell you the entire story, but look at a plot (dyno chart for cars or P-Q chart in fans) and you can get a much clearer picture of the performance.

 

[xbassman]

Originally posted by: hifisoftware
That kinda sucks. This all makes it more subjective and harder to choose. I think I will get Panaflo then. What's the best place to get them? I usually get my stuff at newegg, but they do not carry panaflo. SVC seems to have good prices, maybe I should try them?

SVC is a reputable dealer....

Here's a couple more I have purchased from:
Digi-Key widest selection..hardest to navigate.
Casecooler.com

Make sure you get the proper 3 or 4 pin connectors for your application.
(Panaflo's come with bare leads)

 

[hifisoftware]

Thanks L00PY. Great info. I am looking at Panasonic fans http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/pdf/fba08a.pdf and it's clear that some fans do perform better awith high pressue then others. I will use my fans to pull/push air through stamped out grilles, so I definetly need to look at the graphs.
Accidentally this info also answers another question: Why not just get 120mm fan and use an 80->120mm adapter. 120mm fans have higher CFM. Now I understand that with adapter pressure will be higher and 120mm fan will probably not push more air then 80.

If nothing else this will help me make an educated deciition. Cool.

 

[0roo0roo]

better to cut out grills. fans are not blowers and cannot fight much obstruction at all

 

[wkwong]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
better to cut out grills. fans are not blowers and cannot fight much obstruction at all

yup! if you have "pre-cut" grills for your fans, cut them off with a dremel or jigsaw. there is a HUGE difference. also, dont go for those fancy fangrills, they block air. the classic "stove" design has very good airflow. when picking your grill, choose something that doesn't cover up the fan.

 

[jswjimmy]

wow seven 80mm fans. i thought i was the only one. actualy i have 8 fans but one is a 120mm.

 

[Gravity]

7 fans? Does it levitate?

Also, I'm voting for the panaflo's as the quietest fan. I have 10 in a box that I got on sale a few weeks back. They'll find a home soon.

 

[Neurofreeze]

I'm going to side with everyone else too. The Vantec Stealth is not as quiet as the Panaflo in person.

http://gizzo.8m.com/fans/index.html

There's a list of 80mm fans and their manufacturer's reported specs. Generally if the CFM-to-noise ratio seems unbelievable, then you'd best take it with a grain of salt. Many Papst fans on that page seem too good to be true, but a lot of them do live up (or reasonably close to) the specs, but then again, they're $20-40 each (ie. you want premium, you pay premium). Also, Papst fans are insanely hard to find in the US, especially the good ones, like the 8412NGML (19.0dB/26.5CFM).

Also, pay attention to RPM. If, for instance, an 80mm fan says it has 1700RPM and pushes out 27CFM while all the ~27CFM 80mm fans have ~2050RPM, then it's very likely that the 1700RPM fan won't live up to specs in real world useage. Ie. the PCP&C 80mm fan reports 20.0db/27.0CFM, but only 1700 RPM while the Vantec, Papst, Nidec, YS Tech, and Adda fans of similar CFM show 2050-2100CFM.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: wkwong

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
better to cut out grills. fans are not blowers and cannot fight much obstruction at all

yup! if you have "pre-cut" grills for your fans, cut them off with a dremel or jigsaw. there is a HUGE difference. also, dont go for those fancy fangrills, they block air. the classic "stove" design has very good airflow. when picking your grill, choose something that doesn't cover up the fan.

Why use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times.

 

[SneakyStuff]

VANTEC STEALTH IS TERRIBLE! Sorry, I have one, and it was so rediculously noisy, I just put it into my old, loud, system. Panaflos = teh roxorz

 

[xbassman]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Why use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times.

OMG! Last one that got me was a 92mm. I didn't think I would EVER stop bleeding!

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: wkwong

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
better to cut out grills. fans are not blowers and cannot fight much obstruction at all

yup! if you have "pre-cut" grills for your fans, cut them off with a dremel or jigsaw. there is a HUGE difference. also, dont go for those fancy fangrills, they block air. the classic "stove" design has very good airflow. when picking your grill, choose something that doesn't cover up the fan.

Why use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times.

heh, i did leave the fan holes bare on the back of the case. fans are cheap anyways...damage unlikely in my situation atleast. only crazy rpm fans like tornados really need em.

 

[SNoWyV82]

Yeah, I've got the Papst 8412NGML in my computer right now...very, very quiet fan, quieter than my Panaflos. I do remember paying about $20 for it though, but it was well worth it. I couldn't imagine using them as case fans though....wayyy too expensive.

 

[stonecold3169]

I have 2 of the vantec stealth 80mm in my case... I find this:

The specs are drivel. They push less air then several fans that I've tried with lower specs, and they aren't nessisarily loud, but it's that godaweful whiney annoying want to kill yourself noise. Don't dream of touching them

 

[Cerb]

Stealths are not as quiet as Panaflos, and push less air when up against resistance.
But seven, just in the case? I have three fans in my PC, and that's kind of annoying.

 

[hifisoftware]

Well, it can have seven. Case came with 3 fans and I also found Stealth at local retailer so I got one to see what it's like. My Stealth is the only intake fan (other ones are Enermax fans that came with case pushing air out). My Enermax power supply is also blowing out, so I definetly want to add few fans for the intake. I probably will get two Panaflo medium fans...

 

[jswjimmy]

Originally posted by: xbassman

Originally posted by: Nebor
Why use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times.

OMG! Last one that got me was a 92mm. I didn't think I would EVER stop bleeding!

wow, i stuck my finger in the 5500rpm fan on my volcano. that dam thing took all the skin off the tip of my finger.

 

[KillaKilla]

Originally posted by: NeborWhy use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times

Because friends are never as careful around your case as you are. I cut a grill off my first computer (with wirecutters, no less) and within 3 weeks a pen had been dropped, resulting in 3 blades flying troughout the case. Wiregrills are the best, don't affect airflow but still offer protection.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: KillaKilla

Originally posted by: NeborWhy use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times

Because friends are never as careful around your case as you are. I cut a grill off my first computer (with wirecutters, no less) and within 3 weeks a pen had been dropped, resulting in 3 blades flying troughout the case. Wiregrills are the best, don't affect airflow but still offer protection.

Freinds?
Man, I've cut myself several times, even caused blades to fly off!
Wire grills for me!

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: KillaKilla

Originally posted by: NeborWhy use grills at all? I mean, maybe you haven't learned your lesson, but it only took me about 6 times

Because friends are never as careful around your case as you are. I cut a grill off my first computer (with wirecutters, no less) and within 3 weeks a pen had been dropped, resulting in 3 blades flying troughout the case. Wiregrills are the best, don't affect airflow but still offer protection.

well yea, for the front/top a wire grill would be fine. but for rear ones, those can be left free. and on chieftec/antec/chenmings.. the front ones have double grills. plastic slats over metal grill. taking out the metal while leaving palstic works fine