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Family shattered by Israeli rocket attack

ConantheBarbarian

Senior member
Nov 8, 2000
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Linky

Barely two weeks after the American roadmap for peace was signed with a flourish at Aqaba, some 18 Israelis and almost 50 Palestinians have been killed.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,736
670
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Hey, if the populace is going to shelter and support Hamas they need to accept the consequences.

If they continue to help Hamas kill Israeli children, they might lose a few more of their own.
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
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Attitudes like that are what cause situations like this!

1) The situation in the Middle east is very very dellicate and caused by some very rash desision making by the US and other Allies after teh Second World War.

2) After having a situation like this (but not a bad) in the UK (in Northen Ireland) we know that you have to deal with situations like this very delicatly and giving money to 1 side to boulster their Military capabilities is not treating the situation delicatly!.

3) Get a life if you think taking any human life is ok then you seriously have to reconsider your morals. YOU DO NOT KILL PEOPLE IN RETALIATION! FULL STOP NO ARGUMENTS! IT IS SIMPLY WRONG!

4) As I have seen many times if you did some research on the situation you would understand it much better and therefore understand why this situation arrose in the first place!
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Since neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are above killing civilians and collective punishment, I am not particularly interested in either of them complaining about their civilians being killed. When they get tired of killing each other, they'll work something out. If not, well too bad for them.
 

TheShiz

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,846
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there are plenty of palestinians and israelis that want peace, imagine if such a battle was going on between some of the people here. If you don't care about innocents on both sides then I don't care for your opinion.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Originally posted by: Lynx516
Attitudes like that are what cause situations like this!

1) The situation in the Middle east is very very dellicate and caused by some very rash desision making by the US and other Allies after teh Second World War.

2) After having a situation like this (but not a bad) in the UK (in Northen Ireland) we know that you have to deal with situations like this very delicatly and giving money to 1 side to boulster their Military capabilities is not treating the situation delicatly!.

3) Get a life if you think taking any human life is ok then you seriously have to reconsider your morals. YOU DO NOT KILL PEOPLE IN RETALIATION! FULL STOP NO ARGUMENTS! IT IS SIMPLY WRONG!

4) As I have seen many times if you did some research on the situation you would understand it much better and therefore understand why this situation arrose in the first place!
You need to do some more research based on your statement "very rash desision making by the US and other Allies after teh Second World War. "

May I suggest you start with the Balfour Declaration and the 1920 Jerusalem riots.

Why would the Jews want a homeland of their own?


Massacres of the Second World War
PARIS DEPORTATIONS
(July 16-17, 1942)
A total of 12,884 non French Jews, (3,031 men, 5,802 women and 4,051 children) were rounded up in Paris for deportation to the death camps in Poland. For a whole week, 6,900 of them including the 4,051 children, were confined in the huge sports stadium, the Velodrome d'Hiver on the Boulevard de Grenelle. Without food and little water and only four toilets, the victims were in a deplorable state before being transferred to the camps at Drancy or Pithiviers on the outskirts of Paris. Here the Vichy French police separated the children from their parents. The parents were then transported to Auschwitz to be gassed. The children followed soon after. When the Red Army liberated Auschwitz on January 26, 1945, they found 2,819 inmates still alive but only thirty of the 6,900 non French Jews were alive. Sadly, none of the 4,051 children survived.

It is estimated that around 60,000 Jews from 37 countries perished in France under the German occupation. This includes 22,193 French Jews and 14,459 Polish Jews who had fled to France earlier. Prior to this, on June 11, 1941, three hundred Jewish boys, aged between fourteen and nineteen were arrested and sent to the Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria. Of the three hundred, none survived. On May 15, 1944, a fifteen cattle-truck train left Paris (Convoy-73) heading for Kovno in Lithuania. On board were 878 male Jews including 37 boys aged between thirteen and eighteen. On arrival at Kovno 400 were taken to the slave labour camp at Pravieniskes where many were executed by Lithuanian SS auxilliaries. The other 478 were taken to Reval in Estonia where sixty of the prisoners were shot in a nearby forest. A hundred more, judged too sick to work were murdered. The rest ended up in the Stutthof concentration camp where many died. After the war it was found that only twenty-three of the original 878 deportees had survived.

SLAUGTER AT LOMAZY

(August 19, 1942) In the town of Lomazy (Lomza) in eastern Poland, the Police Battalion 101 from Hamburg started the round up of all Jewish inhabitants. About 1,650 persons were arrested and marched to the playing field of the local school. Made to squat under a scorching sun and without anything to drink many fainted from the heat. A group of men were then selected and taken to a wooded area to dig a trench 30 yards wide and 50 yards long. While the trench was being dug, back in the playing fields the men of Battalion 101 were having a bit of ?fun?. An empty bottle was thrown into the crowd of squatting victims and whoever was hit was then dragged out in front of the crowd and shot. When the digging was finished, the executions began. After shedding their clothes the naked victims were forced to run a gauntlet of policemen wielding clubs and rifle butts before reaching the trench, bloodied and half dead. As the pit began to fill with water the victims were made to lie down in the water before receiving a bullet in the back of the head. The next victims had to lie on top of the corpses while their killers stood knee-deep in the bloodied water and fired the fatal shots. As the murderers (including many Ukrainian collaborators) got more and more drunk they were then relieved by another squad. Finally, when most of the 1,650 Jews were executed the remainder were spared to fill in the trench after which they too were shot. The town of Lomazy was now ?Jew-free?.

OUTRAGE AT IZIEU
(Central France, April 6, 1944)
The sleepy French village of Izieu lies overlooking the Rhone river between Lyon and Chambery in central France. A number of refugee Jewish children, most of them orphans, were being sheltered in a home in the hope that the Nazi Gestapo would not find them. Supervised by seven adults, they felt safe and secure. However, on the morning of April 6, 1944, as they settled down to breakfast, a car and two military trucks drove up in front of the home. The Gestapo, led by the regional head, Klaus Barbie, entered the home and forcibly removed the forty four children and their seven supervisors, throwing the crying and terrified children on to the trucks like sacks of potatoes. All were transported to the collection center at Drancy outside Paris where they were put on the first available train to 'points east'. One carer, Miron Zlatin, and two of the oldest children ended up in Tallin in Estonia where they were all shot. The others found themselves in the notorious concentration camp of Auschwitz. Of the forty-four children, aged between five and seventeen kidnapped from Izieu, not a single one survived the war. Of the supervisors there was one sole survivor, twenty-seven year old Lea Feldblum. It is a tragic fact that patriotic French citizens willingly helped the Gestapo in their search for these Jewish children. On July 3, 1987, Klaus Barbie was finally arrested, tried in a French court and sentenced to life imprisonment. He died of cancer in prison on September 25, 1991.
The former children's home in Izieu is now a memorial-museum, opened on April 4, 1994 by the then President of the French Republic, Francios Mitterrand.

and the list goes on and on.
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
272
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The rash desision I am refering to is the fact that they made a country where there was none before and believed that it wouldnt cause any trouble.

Also you do not refute my other points so do you agree with them?
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Lynx516
The rash desision I am refering to is the fact that they made a country where there was none before and believed that it wouldnt cause any trouble.

Also you do not refute my other points so do you agree with them?
You are correct, they made a country where there was none. The same offer was made to the Arabs to make a country known as Palestine.

The Arabs rejected that agreement and went on the war path.

Why do you call it a rash decision, aren't you ignoring over thiry years of history with that statement? Have you researched the Balfour declartion yet?

Please don't make the stupid assumption that simply because I do not address a point that I agree with it.

 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,736
670
126
2) After having a situation like this (but not a bad) in the UK (in Northen Ireland) we know that you have to deal with situations like this very delicatly and giving money to 1 side to boulster their Military capabilities is not treating the situation delicatly!.
I wouldn't call the Ireland peace process too successful until the paramilitaries disband -- right now they've just shifted to running the organized crime in the area.

3) Get a life if you think taking any human life is ok then you seriously have to reconsider your morals. YOU DO NOT KILL PEOPLE IN RETALIATION! FULL STOP NO ARGUMENTS! IT IS SIMPLY WRONG!
Blanket generalizations are simply wrong full stop no arguments. Some people do deserve to die, and the leaders of Hamas seem to be in that category by (as their most recent atrocity) staging terrorist attacks to derail the newest peace process attempt.

And the communities where the Hamas live and "work" (on killing people) support them, shelter them, provide aid and comfort. There are Palestinians who have marched in protest against Hamas, and then there are Palestinians who turn a blind eye or actively help. Until these communities expel Hamas they are partially guilty for the murders that Hamas commits in their name.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,978
3,758
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Please don't make the stupid assumption that simply because I do not address a point that I agree with it.
------------------------------------------------
Please don't make the stupid assumption that if he asks you if you agree he's making the assumption you don't. This is why we have question marks. We ask what we don't know.
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
272
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On the Balfour declaration it was imposed by force by the British against the will of the local populous. So I dont have any idea how this affects what I said. A desision to make a state in an area with only 10% of the population being Jewish and the vast majority being Muslim seems suicide.

The same offer was made to the Arabs to make a country known as Palestine.
no idea where you got this from. Palestine was ineexistance long before. This area had been controled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire since 1516 and in 1919 it had its own government which expressed its opposition to the Balfour Declaration.

Infact if you had done some research on the history of palestine you will find that the Jews fought the British to try and chuck them out of the area and as a result formed Israel and in April to May 1948 the Jews massacred Palistinians.

Get your facts right and make sure there are no skeletons before chucking research at me
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,978
3,758
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Oh no, now we gotta listen to all this rubbish about the Palestinian nationality all over again. Hold on to your trousers, Lynx, it shouldn't be long.

I was wondering how the average American would react if the government gave a Mexican family half of their house and yard in exchange for a new legal title to the rest of the property. Wouldn't that be cool.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
1
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Originally posted by: Lynx516
The rash desision I am refering to is the fact that they made a country where there was none before and believed that it wouldnt cause any trouble.

Also you do not refute my other points so do you agree with them?
The area was under British control, not Palestinian. The real choice to be made was to create two seperate countries, Israel and Palestine, or if the two groups could live toegther in one country. The Palestinans made it clear that they intended to rid the area of Jews once the British left. In fact, that is still their official position. This is what led to the creation of Israel.

That's how I see it.


 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
272
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Research dear boy research. Do some. like the fact that the jews massacred the palestinians as I have said before. The fact that the vast majority of the population was Musslim so the rash desision was to make a Jewish country when the vast majority of the area was Musslim.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,294
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The fact that there was a muslim majority, vowing to wipe out the minority or drive them into the sea, is a good reason to create a seperate state for the Jews, it's not an argument not to.

Both sides killed each other, they still do. what does that have to do with anything ?

Besides that, the fact is two countries were created. Which side is it that has as it's stated goal the elimination of the other side ?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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How does a country have the right to take away land *not within its' own borders---and then give it away to someone else


Why didn't the British send the Jews to Hong Kong? :)
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Originally posted by: Lynx516
Research dear boy research. Do some. like the fact that the jews massacred the palestinians as I have said before. The fact that the vast majority of the population was Musslim so the rash desision was to make a Jewish country when the vast majority of the area was Musslim.

Which "masacre" are you talking about?

There was never a country named Palestine or a people known as Palestinians before 1948,
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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Anyone in here who thinks the Israelis are totally innocent and the Pals are horrible dogs want to comment on this?

It is always refreshing, therefore, in such clouded times to recount some of the glaring chapters in the biography of Israeli terrorism. Here are but a few.

On 22 July 1946, under direct orders from the Haganah general command, former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin's Irgun Gang detonated 350 kg of explosives in the basement of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing about 90 British, Arab and Jewish innocent civilians, and completely destroying half the building (on the pretext that the hotel housed the British military command). On 4 January 1948, members of the Irgun, again under direct orders from the Haganah, blew up a truck loaded with explosives in the main market square of the Palestinian city of Jaffa, murdering and maiming scores of Palestinian men, women and children. Many of us have also seen the "Wanted Terrorist" mug-shot poster issued by the British government in mandated Palestine, depicting the picture of former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir whose Stern Gang assassinated the Swedish UN Peacekeeper, Count Bernadotte, on 17 September 1948 in reaction to a proposition he made to give control of Jerusalem to the Arabs.

Today we all know that the subsequent murderous collaboration of the Irgun and the Stern gangs was not limited only to Deir Yassin. By the admission of many venerable Israeli historians, the carefully coordinated massacres by these armed militias extended to tens of other Palestinian towns and villages, massacres in which Begin, Shamir and other prominent Israelis personally participated. These documented acts of genocide against unarmed innocent Palestinians were carried out not by suicide bombers but by mainstream Israeli politicians, some of whom are today members of the Israeli government and Kenesset, none of whom ever accepted to apologise for the killings which they do not deny they committed to further the Zionist cause. Their calculated objective at that time was to terrorise the remaining Palestinian inhabitants into fleeing Palestine so that the Zionists can have an ethnically cleansed "promised land" for its "chosen people" - which they achieved with notable success
http://www.globalcomment.com/articles/currentaffairs/zaid/z_n.htm
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
272
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Thank you for sharing my view that it isnt just the Palestinians who are in the wrong. More people than the Palestinans and the Isralis are to blame. All have commited attrocites. If I have sounded pro Palestinian at times it is because I have had to inorder to get my point accross due to the huge wall of pro Israeli feeling in this thread.
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
272
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0
Fundementalism is having a detramental impact on the world however realy the religious reasons for this conflict are just a thin veil to hid the real reason which is land. So often religion is used as an excuse for war when other things are the real motives
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
5,466
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If any of you think that Hamas is fighting for peace, Palestinian statehood, or some other such lofty goal, you need to put down the pipe.
 

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