"familiarity with SQL"

[Fayd]

when companies list things like this on their job requirements, what is it they're looking for?

this isnt for a technical position, it'd be for something like a business analyst, entry level management, (one i'm looking at now is titled "inventory analyst.")

AFAIK, SQL is a database query language..right? so are they actually looking for someone who can program database queries in SQL? or are they just looking for someone who has worked with applications that use sql?

i should mention i'm asking this because i'm curious what companies expect. i'm thinking about trying to learn certain applications and useful languages on my own to increase my marketability. (having a non-technical degree kind of sucks if it's your first degree...)

 

[Capt Caveman]

They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

 

[Chronoshock]

An analyst may be expected to work with data logged in a DB to generate reports, analyze trends, or identify points of interest. I can elaborate further if I knew what the company did.
A familiarity with SQL in this context would likely mean familiarity with SQL syntax and query logic to be able to perform analytics-related tasks. As an example, given a schema that logs user behavior (search keywords, links visited, time stamps) and links it with user orders, could you identify keywords that maximize order rate, ones with low conversion rate/high dropout, or ones that have the highest average order value?

This may be more technical than you are expected to do, you may be one step removed (analyzing reports generated by analytics using SQL queries), but a familiarity would help in this case as well.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Fayd
AFAIK, SQL is a database query language..right?

I don't really know how much experience they would require, but the fact that you'd ask that suggests that you certainly are not familiar enough with it.

It's difficult to say how much work you'd need to put in. I imagine some people would consider "familiarity" to mean you can write simple select statements involving maybe composite tables and simple joins, as well as update, delete and create statements. Others would consider "familiarity" to mean you know your shit about relational data, and you know enough SQL to be able to transfer your knowledge of relational algebra into a query.

I'm really guessing here.

Edit - I'm not trying to be an asshole when I say you're not familiar enough. We all start somewhere. It also depends heavily on what type of data you're working with. There's an enormously vast difference between, say, a MySQL Drupal database which likely only has simple FK relationships, and a financial or medical database which likely has hundreds or thousands of vitally important foreign key constraints and would require intimate knowledge of the DB infrastructure to perform most tasks.

 

[OutHouse]

select * from

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Fayd
AFAIK, SQL is a database query language..right?

I don't really know how much experience they would require, but the fact that you'd ask that suggests that you certainly are not familiar enough with it.

It's difficult to say how much work you'd need to put in. I imagine some people would consider "familiarity" to mean you can write simple select statements involving maybe composite tables and simple joins, as well as update, delete and create statements. Others would consider "familiarity" to mean you know your shit about relational data, and you know enough SQL to be able to transfer your knowledge of relational algebra into a query.

I'm really guessing here.

to me that is saying the person should be a fricken DBA

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Citrix
to me that is saying the person should be a fricken DBA

Not at all, everything I listed is the absolute minimum that any developer should know. If you're a developer who doesn't understand relational algebra and simple SQL stuff then I sure hope you're not working anywhere near any sort of data.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Citrix
to me that is saying the person should be a fricken DBA

Not at all, everything I listed is the absolute minimum that any developer should know. If you're a developer who doesn't understand relational algebra and simple SQL stuff then I sure hope you're not working anywhere near any sort of data.

eh maybe i guess im just used to people coming to us (sys admin) to data mine out of our db's and turn it into a published crystal report. I absolutely hate doing it and pawn it off as often as i can. we hired a report writer a few months ago to do this shit. just let me maintain my citrix farm and im a happy clam.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock
An analyst may be expected to work with data logged in a DB to generate reports, analyze trends, or identify points of interest. I can elaborate further if I knew what the company did.
A familiarity with SQL in this context would likely mean familiarity with SQL syntax and query logic to be able to perform analytics-related tasks. As an example, given a schema that logs user behavior (search keywords, links visited, time stamps) and links it with user orders, could you identify keywords that maximize order rate, ones with low conversion rate/high dropout, or ones that have the highest average order value?

This may be more technical than you are expected to do, you may be one step removed (analyzing reports generated by analytics using SQL queries), but a familiarity would help in this case as well.

for some reason, i have this mildly horrifying mental image of setting up a multivariate regression analysis.

thanks for the response. that seems like fairly simple stuff given what i already know about the syntax and familiarity with the operators. i'm sure it gets more advanced than that though. guess i should buy a book and start reading.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Fayd
AFAIK, SQL is a database query language..right?

I don't really know how much experience they would require, but the fact that you'd ask that suggests that you certainly are not familiar enough with it.

hah, i didnt ask if i was familiar enough with it to list on my resume/ respond to jobs that ask for it.

i'm asking what i have to do in order to fulfill that req. i welcome anybody who has experience in this matter to answer.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Citrix
to me that is saying the person should be a fricken DBA

Not at all, everything I listed is the absolute minimum that any developer should know. If you're a developer who doesn't understand relational algebra and simple SQL stuff then I sure hope you're not working anywhere near any sort of data.

eh maybe i guess im just used to people coming to us (sys admin) to data mine out of our db's and turn it into a published crystal report. I absolutely hate doing it and pawn it off as often as i can. we hired a report writer a few months ago to do this shit. just let me maintain my citrix farm and im a happy clam.

Where I work a huge number of people interact with our DBs -- DBAs, developers, QA, analytics, and release management. The DBAs primary tasks are (I think) maintaining the DB servers, interacting with DBs in the test and production environments, improving performance through creating indexes, providing code reviews for developer written stored procedures/scripts (finding efficient query plans), migrating tables or databases for performance or logical refactoring, and more.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Citrix
to me that is saying the person should be a fricken DBA

Not at all, everything I listed is the absolute minimum that any developer should know. If you're a developer who doesn't understand relational algebra and simple SQL stuff then I sure hope you're not working anywhere near any sort of data.

eh maybe i guess im just used to people coming to us (sys admin) to data mine out of our db's and turn it into a published crystal report. I absolutely hate doing it and pawn it off as often as i can. we hired a report writer a few months ago to do this shit. just let me maintain my citrix farm and im a happy clam.

Where I work a huge number of people interact with our DBs -- DBAs, developers, QA, analytics, and release management. The DBAs primary tasks are (I think) maintaining the DB servers, interacting with DBs in the test and production environments, improving performance through creating indexes, providing code reviews for developer written stored procedures/scripts (finding efficient query plans), migrating tables or databases for performance or logical refactoring, and more.

while i realize that i'm the one who came here asking for help, these things seem far outside the scope of the job descriptions. in fact, the job descriptions in and of themselves havent mentioned SQL much at all.

i guess what i'm asking most of all, is what i should do such that i can say i am familiar with SQL and not be lieing. (i'm a horrible liar anyway.)

where i'm at now:

i have a good understanding of programming syntax for C++. i know all the operators used, and what i've seen at the w3schools website, writing basic queries for SQL seems pretty simple. i'm sure there's more to it than that, which is why i'm asking here.

i have a basic understanding of access, in that i've taken a class on MS office (got some easy credits), and we took about 2 class sessions discussing access and how to build a database. this basically contained some bullshit, and it certainly wasnt advanced enough to say i know how to be productive in access.

if there's a good introduction book available, maybe someone here can give me a recommendation? or a good tutorial website?

 

[manlymatt83]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

It's probably SELECT's they'd be most likely to want you to do. UPDATE's, DELETE's, and INSERT's not so often....

Learn:

SELECT x FROM y WHERE..... well and you'd be ok.

Learn joins (inner, outer, left, right, syntax, etc.)

 

[mjrpes3]

Familiar means they don't expect you to be an expert. But you should know the basic syntax. You should know the difference between a left join and inner join. You should know how to pull aggregates using GROUP BY. You should know how subqueries work and how to effectively use them in both the SELECT and WHERE parts of a statement. unions, the importance of indexes, primary keys. sql is easy to learn with an intro book and a few hours time.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: mjrpes3
Familiar means they don't expect you to be an expert. But you should know the basic syntax. You should know the difference between a left join and inner join. You should know how to pull aggregates using GROUP BY. You should know how subqueries work and how to effectively use them in both the SELECT and WHERE parts of a statement. unions, the importance of indexes, primary keys. sql is easy to learn with an intro book and a few hours time.

I guess I'm not familiar with SQL, lol

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: manlymatt83

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

It's probably SELECT's they'd be most likely to want you to do. UPDATE's, DELETE's, and INSERT's not so often....

Learn:

SELECT x FROM y WHERE..... well and you'd be ok.

Learn joins (inner, outer, left, right, syntax, etc.)

This sounds about right. I am a web app developer and deal with those who need to report numbers to their mgmt all the time. Sometimes they would just send me their SQL to produce a web report directly... so they can just pull numbers off the site anytime. My job would be easier and quicker too because they know exactly what they want. If they're not getting what they want, they can tweak their own "code" without me having to do trial and error for them. Selects & joins would probably be the most advanced you'd have to be.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

LOL- that's a good indication that you're not qualified for the job

 

[richardycc]

just tell them you know NULL is not spaces.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

That probably would be a good enough start to get the job.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
They are looking for someone that can write queries against the database(s) for data extraction, reporting, etc...

the kind of thing that "SQL for dummies" would teach you? or more advanced than that?

That probably would be a good enough start to get the job.

she he scribble notes in the sidebar and carry his copy in with him?

 

[clamum]

Sounds like they want someone familiar in the language who can do select, insert, update, and delete queries. Nothing about the description suggests advanced knowledge to me so I think if you read through a "For Dummies" book you'd be fine. Otherwise, email them and ask them to clarify the requirement.

Edit: Yeah, even reading through a book like I mentioned above seems like it would be more than you'd need. Learn select queries (with left/right/inner joins), basic inserts, updates, deletes and you'd be fine. Stuff you could learn in a few hours or so.

 

[Kntx]

If you know the difference between an inner and outer join you should be good to go.

 

[Legendary]

I'm a DBA of a Business Analysis database - if you're looking at the analyst job it's likely you'll be working with prewritten pieces of code or frameworks of code that you will have to modify mildly to get what you want. The odds of you writing full analytical queries are pretty low. There are whole departments devoted to assisting actual analysts.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: mjrpes3
Familiar means they don't expect you to be an expert. But you should know the basic syntax. You should know the difference between a left join and inner join. You should know how to pull aggregates using GROUP BY. You should know how subqueries work and how to effectively use them in both the SELECT and WHERE parts of a statement. unions, the importance of indexes, primary keys. sql is easy to learn with an intro book and a few hours time.

SQL Server Books Online is a pretty handy resource too, and you can install it right along with SSMS