Falsely cited for not wearing seatbelt...

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conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,566
899
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you think a DA prosecutes traffic citations?

Really, from my experience I don't even understand how some traffic court judges get to their positions. In college I was ticketed for supposedly parking in a no parking zone along with half dozen or so other cars. A no parking sign was erected in the lot the next day. So I go to the city and get an official 'To whom it may concern' note stating the date the sign was erected and showed up in court on the scheduled date to appear. A slam dunk you would think. Not so fast my friend. After reading the note the court tried to claim that there used to be a sign there (maybe I had removed it - LOL). So the judge is sitting there trying to think of someway to make me pay something. Honestly I could not believe that this dumb ignoramus was a judge. The funny thing is that it was obvious to everyone else sitting in the courtroom that I had done nothing wrong. Of course it was dismissed, but going before traffic court judges is risky business.
 

x-alki

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,353
1
81
If you want rough imagine being me. I have a essential tremor (or something similar, never spent much time trying to find out). Basically my arms and legs sometimes shake especially if I'm stressed, rushing, trying to do something that requires fine motor control, etc.

I've gotten used to it to the point that I can don't even notice. However all police officers notice this when they pull me over and I'm finding my registration or getting out my license. This usually leads to be asked to get out of the car and then to searches, sobriety tests, etc.

This has taken me to being very standoffish about traffic stops. I force them to bring in drug dogs to get probable cause, I don't answer anything I'm not required to answer, etc. Once I realized they were never going to trust me, I decided I was never going to make their job easy.

So, instead of finding out whats wrong with you and possibly treating it you will put up with the bull shit from the cops?
 
Mar 11, 2004
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If you want rough imagine being me. I have a essential tremor (or something similar, never spent much time trying to find out). Basically my arms and legs sometimes shake especially if I'm stressed, rushing, trying to do something that requires fine motor control, etc.

You really should, no, need, to get that checked out. I'm surprised that your license has not been revoked over that even.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
You really should, no, need, to get that checked out. I'm surprised that your license has not been revoked over that even.

I have had it checked out. Blood work, cat scans, etc. All that as a child. It is benign. The exact cause however is undermined.

When the doctor says "If it's not effecting your life I wouldn't recommend putting tons of money into tests" I listen to them. There is medication to cover up the symptoms, but I'm not going to live with yearly costs of medicine and side effects just so my hands don't shake when I'm trying to thread a needle.

My father has tremors. My grandmother has tremors, her grandfather had tremors. It's obviously genetic, and hasn't killed any of them pre-maturely. I can't imagine anyone taking away my license because I look nervous.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,747
579
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Traffic court is specifically structured such that if you are innocent the act of defending yourself will merely cause further financial and time damage to you.

The prudent course of action is to pay the fine because of this. Although it is hardly satisfying, the entire thing is easier to swallow if you cast off your idealism and realize its just another pile of ridiculous horse shit that you have to wade through while living.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
If you want rough imagine being me. I have a essential tremor (or something similar, never spent much time trying to find out). Basically my arms and legs sometimes shake especially if I'm stressed, rushing, trying to do something that requires fine motor control, etc.

I've gotten used to it to the point that I can don't even notice. However all police officers notice this when they pull me over and I'm finding my registration or getting out my license. This usually leads to be asked to get out of the car and then to searches, sobriety tests, etc.

This has taken me to being very standoffish about traffic stops. I force them to bring in drug dogs to get probable cause, I don't answer anything I'm not required to answer, etc. Once I realized they were never going to trust me, I decided I was never going to make their job easy.
By doing this aren't you just making your own life more difficult? Oh well if it worth it to you to piss off the cop then by all mean go for it. It would not be my choice.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Wisdom for the OP,
Learn to change the things you can, to accept the things you can't change and try to have the wisdom to know the difference.

In other words, choose your battles, is it worth it for you and others. What will it accomplish? Others have had realy good suggestions for you in here. Consider your options.

In this case, you seam to be sorely missing in the "know the difference" department.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
Although it is hardly satisfying, the entire thing is easier to swallow if you cast off your idealism and realize its just another pile of ridiculous horse shit that you have to wade through while living.
Yeah. I usually think of it as a road tax.
Also, I speed 95% of the time, so when I do get a ticket, I figure I deserve it.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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I have had it checked out. Blood work, cat scans, etc. All that as a child. It is benign. The exact cause however is undermined.

When the doctor says "If it's not effecting your life I wouldn't recommend putting tons of money into tests" I listen to them. There is medication to cover up the symptoms, but I'm not going to live with yearly costs of medicine and side effects just so my hands don't shake when I'm trying to thread a needle.

My father has tremors. My grandmother has tremors, her grandfather had tremors. It's obviously genetic, and hasn't killed any of them pre-maturely. I can't imagine anyone taking away my license because I look nervous.

Sorry, but saying it affects your motor skills, which is what operating a vehicle is, should be a big concern. If its bad enough that police would go to those lengths to check you and your vehicle for drugs or alcohol, why are they letting you drive? At the minimum, I would think they wouldn't let you get back behind the wheel after pulling you over.

It is affecting your life, so I don't even know what you could be thinking by not getting it checked out more thoroughly.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Wisdom for the OP,
Learn to change the things you can, to accept the things you can't change and try to have the wisdom to know the difference.

In other words, choose your battles, is it worth it for you and others. What will it accomplish? Others have had realy good suggestions for you in here. Consider your options.

In this case, you seam to be sorely missing in the "know the difference" department.

He's an "idealist" and cannot see the difference between trivial and important battles. Self-aggrandizing is his defining characteristic.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,933
3,227
146
By doing this aren't you just making your own life more difficult? Oh well if it worth it to you to piss off the cop then by all mean go for it. It would not be my choice.

Maybe the cop is corrupt though and just gives everyone fake tickets because he is too lazy to bother actually finding people breaking the law? Someone has to stand up to pricks like that. I'm not saying this will accomplish anything, but just letting people get away with extorting the system doesn't seem so great.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Sorry, but saying it affects your motor skills, which is what operating a vehicle is, should be a big concern. If its bad enough that police would go to those lengths to check you and your vehicle for drugs or alcohol, why are they letting you drive? At the minimum, I would think they wouldn't let you get back behind the wheel after pulling you over.

It is affecting your life, so I don't even know what you could be thinking by not getting it checked out more thoroughly.

You don't seem to understand what a tremor is. I look nervous. I can still draw straight lines, fight, play video games, drive, type, play guitar, thread needles, etc.

It's not like I'm flopping around. I'm willing to bet I can draw a straighter line then you can and probably drive better too. I was the teacher's pet in high school for technical drawing. I would free hand 3 point perspective all the time.

Cop walks up, sees my hands shaking like I'm nervous while I try to pull my drivers license out.

Him: Why are you so nervous boy?
Me: I have tremor, my hands do this.
Him: Oh right, so you sure there is nothing in the car I need to know about?
Me: No sir
Him: Then why are you so nervous?
Me: Again..blah
Him: Step out of the car. Look son, I'm not buying your story. If you tell me what you are hiding I can help you. When I find it and you didn't tell me, I'm not going to be able to help you.
Me: Sigh.......

Or in bjj class. I grab someone.

Them: your kinda shaky, you want to take a break.
Me: Nope I'm fine
Them: ok, well, just tell me if you need to stop.

To quote the internet "Essential tremor is a type of involuntary shaking movement in which
no cause can be identified. Involuntary means you shake without
trying to do so. The tremor is usually most obvious in the hands.... Essential tremor is the most common type of tremor. In general, tremors occur when there is a problem with the nerves supplying certain muscles. However, everyone has some essential tremor but the movements are usually so small that they can't be seen."

Mine is just enough that it is sometimes seen. Police are looking for those 'tells' to find kids worried about the pot in their dash, or the beers they had.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Sorry, but saying it affects your motor skills, which is what operating a vehicle is, should be a big concern. If its bad enough that police would go to those lengths to check you and your vehicle for drugs or alcohol, why are they letting you drive? At the minimum, I would think they wouldn't let you get back behind the wheel after pulling you over.

It is affecting your life, so I don't even know what you could be thinking by not getting it checked out more thoroughly.

ignorance. i hope you enjoy it..
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,261
5,709
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You don't seem to understand what a tremor is. I look nervous. I can still draw straight lines, fight, play video games, drive, type, thread needles, etc.

It's not like I'm flopping around.

Cop walks up, sees my hands shaking like I'm nervous while I try to pull my drivers license out.

Him: Why are you so nervous boy?
Me: I have tremor, my hands do this.
Him: Oh right, so you sure there is nothing in the car I need to know about?
Me: No sir
Him: Then why are you so nervous?
Me: Again..blah
Him: Step out of the car. Look son, I'm not buying your story. If you tell me what you are hiding I can help you. When I find it and you didn't tell me, I'm not going to be able to help you.
Me: Sigh.......

Or in bjj class. I grab someone.

Them: your kinda shaky, you want to take a break.
Me: Nope I'm fine
Them: ok, well, just tell me if you need to stop.

To quote the internet "Essential tremor is a type of involuntary shaking movement in which
no cause can be identified. Involuntary means you shake without
trying to do so. The tremor is usually most obvious in the hands.... Essential tremor is the most common type of tremor. In general, tremors occur when there is a problem with the nerves supplying certain muscles. However, everyone has some essential tremor but the movements are usually so small that they can't be seen."

Mine is just enough that it is sometimes seen. Police are looking for those 'tells' to find kids worried about the pot in their dash, or the beers they had.

I apologize, but the way you described it (basically said it gave police cause to think you were under the influence of something), well call me crazy but that sound pretty bad, and when you say you lose motor skills, that sounds pretty bad too.

ignorance. i hope you enjoy it..

Check what he originally posted and then tell me if I was wrong for thinking it was something he maybe should not be operating a motor vehicle because of. To me it sounded like it was bad enough to be mistaken for being under the influence of something.
 
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sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
By doing this aren't you just making your own life more difficult? Oh well if it worth it to you to piss off the cop then by all mean go for it. It would not be my choice.

It is more difficult for me, but I get the satisfaction of protecting my rights. If they want to search my car, they are going to need probable cause or a warrant. This is why I lock and shut my car door when I get out of the car.

I'm polite, I answer questions I'm legally responsible to answer (show proof of ID and insurance and ask if I'm being detained and if I can leave).

It's not like I get pulled over all the time and it's not like each time I'm treated like that. As I get older, I find myself not only more responsible (and thus not pulled over for doing stupid shit) and I also find I get treated better by the police.

Instead of a rusted out beater with a 17 year old punk with long hair, they find a nice car with a well kept, balding, 30 year old. Honestly this has not been a problem in at least 5 years. In fact, I think my last speeding ticket was probably 5 years ago. Last two times I got pulled over I was given verbal warnings and sent on my way without so much as a second glance.

I know from talking to my family (who have gone though dozens of tests) that I have a genetic disorder. I have done blood work, cat scans, etc. I'm healthy, I just shake a bit. I'm not taking medicine that will ruin my quality of life just so I don't shake. All the doctor's I've ever had agree with me. I know from watching my family and personal experience that the tremors get less as I get older (my dad doesn't shake anymore except for under high stress) and will come back a bit after I'm about 70. When I was a teen you could see my hands shake when I was writing or holding my hands out. Now you can only see it if I'm doing something that requires a lot of strength or fine motor control. The trick here is fine motor control, something like soldering very small components on a tiny board or threading a tiny needle. Even then it's not enough to effect the work. Just enough to make people think I'm really nervous. It also increases if I drink a lot of caffeine.

I guess my point is that police are there to find people to arrest and ticket. Any excuse to them is a good excuse. It's not about protecting the public, it's not even about if you are guilty, it is about if there is enough evidence to get a guilty verdict. I once had an experience where I was working at a computer shop. I bought computer parts from one of the guys who worked in the shop (he built a new computer, I bought his old cpu/ram/video card). He brought the items into work and I bought them. A month later he got arrested for stealing from the company. Being a young and dumb kid, I called the police and told them I had these parts and was worried maybe they were stolen. I was then charged with possession of stolen property, forced to take a lie detector or be arrested and charged with felony possession of stolen property, and because I was young and didn't know any better I was forced into taking a plea bargain and doing community service. (We know you didn't know they were stolen, but in this state having stolen property, even if you don't know is still a crime...take the plea or we are going to arrest you and lock you up.)

Knowing what I know now, not only would I have not called the police, I also would have gotten a lawyer if approached by them and under no circumstances would I have ever talked to them or answered any of their questions.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
I apologize, but the way you described it (basically said it gave police cause to think you were under the influence of something), well call me crazy but that sound pretty bad, and when you say you lose motor skills, that sounds pretty bad too.



Check what he originally posted and then tell me if I was wrong for thinking it was something he maybe should not be operating a motor vehicle because of. To me it sounded like it was bad enough to be mistaken for being under the influence of something.

I said fine motor control, I'd consider driving a gross motor control similar to walking compared to drawing a painting with your foot.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Maybe the cop is corrupt though and just gives everyone fake tickets because he is too lazy to bother actually finding people breaking the law? Someone has to stand up to pricks like that. I'm not saying this will accomplish anything, but just letting people get away with extorting the system doesn't seem so great.

I was not replying to the OP in what you quoted me.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
It is more difficult for me, but I get the satisfaction of protecting my rights. If they want to search my car, they are going to need probable cause or a warrant. This is why I lock and shut my car door when I get out of the car.

I'm polite, I answer questions I'm legally responsible to answer (show proof of ID and insurance and ask if I'm being detained and if I can leave).

It's not like I get pulled over all the time and it's not like each time I'm treated like that. As I get older, I find myself not only more responsible (and thus not pulled over for doing stupid shit) and I also find I get treated better by the police.

Instead of a rusted out beater with a 17 year old punk with long hair, they find a nice car with a well kept, balding, 30 year old. Honestly this has not been a problem in at least 5 years. In fact, I think my last speeding ticket was probably 5 years ago. Last two times I got pulled over I was given verbal warnings and sent on my way without so much as a second glance.

I know from talking to my family (who have gone though dozens of tests) that I have a genetic disorder. I have done blood work, cat scans, etc. I'm healthy, I just shake a bit. I'm not taking medicine that will ruin my quality of life just so I don't shake. All the doctor's I've ever had agree with me. I know from watching my family and personal experience that the tremors get less as I get older (my dad doesn't shake anymore except for under high stress) and will come back a bit after I'm about 70. When I was a teen you could see my hands shake when I was writing or holding my hands out. Now you can only see it if I'm doing something that requires a lot of strength or fine motor control. The trick here is fine motor control, something like soldering very small components on a tiny board or threading a tiny needle. Even then it's not enough to effect the work. Just enough to make people think I'm really nervous. It also increases if I drink a lot of caffeine.

I guess my point is that police are there to find people to arrest and ticket. Any excuse to them is a good excuse. It's not about protecting the public, it's not even about if you are guilty, it is about if there is enough evidence to get a guilty verdict. I once had an experience where I was working at a computer shop. I bought computer parts from one of the guys who worked in the shop (he built a new computer, I bought his old cpu/ram/video card). He brought the items into work and I bought them. A month later he got arrested for stealing from the company. Being a young and dumb kid, I called the police and told them I had these parts and was worried maybe they were stolen. I was then charged with possession of stolen property, forced to take a lie detector or be arrested and charged with felony possession of stolen property, and because I was young and didn't know any better I was forced into taking a plea bargain and doing community service. (We know you didn't know they were stolen, but in this state having stolen property, even if you don't know is still a crime...take the plea or we are going to arrest you and lock you up.)

Knowing what I know now, not only would I have not called the police, I also would have gotten a lawyer if approached by them and under no circumstances would I have ever talked to them or answered any of their questions.

Nice post and I agree with you about the police looking for evidence to convict you. They are not there to help you, they are there to do a job and that implies arresting people. I would never volunteer ANY information to the police.
 
May 16, 2000
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That seems more than being an idealist, that's more of a mental disorder. Its like you not only hold an ideal, you go out of your way to force it. That or you put yourself in a lot of crappy situations for no good reason and then cling to your idealism instead of accepting fault.

I don't seek the stuff out, just seems to find me. Sitting in class doodling on my notebook and the teacher (an EXTREME religious whacko) tosses me for anti-christian behavior (for drawing pentagrams...in a public high school mind you). Another teacher (another religio-nut) kicks me out for taking the lords name in vain when I say 'jesus christ' after badly stubbing my toe walking through the class.

In the military there was a HUGE rally for gay rights and the repeal of DADT, which of course we were forbidden from attending, but obviously I was going to anyway because it was the right thing to do. I was ordered to prepare a letter to the family of a dead sailor, but it contained outright lies, so I refused.

My ex accusing me of molestation multiple times, even after being investigated and dismissed, as a favor tactic in ongoing precedings. My ex, crushing my daughter in a blind fit of lunacy, charging me with assault for saving our daughter.

A job ordering me to NOT report incorrectly stored waste materials and safety violations. A job, ordering me to order my officers to remove their safety equipment so as not to upset the crazy combatants. A job, purposefully failing to disclose communicable hazards because they didn't see security officers as qualified to receive medical information.

It's all stuff like that.
 
May 16, 2000
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Agreed.

An idealist is naive. They use the pure form of an idea because they haven't yet learned to integrate all the facts.

OP, on the other hand, seems to know he's retarded; but has deep-seated emotional issues that don't allow him to bend to authority. He wraps his avoidance behavior as "idealism" to put a pretty face on it to protect his ego.


Idealism has NOTHING to do with naivety. You're completely ignorant. Read some psych, read some history. Idealism is a personality trait just like any other. It co-exists with total awareness, and even mastery of the facts and probable outcomes. It's just that the principles are more important than the difficulties to us.

According to you, a person who takes a bullet for someone else, or rushes into a dangerous situation, is nothing but naive. That's crap. It's all about having principles and adhering to them, regardless of the dangers or outcomes.
 
May 16, 2000
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I'm kind of hoping he loses actually. It would be funny to see this huge egomaniac get knocked down a notch. :D

Except that it won't knock me down at all. I expect to lose the suit, and figure the ticket is a coin flip. It's never about 'winning', only idiots and egocentrics care about something as stupid as winning and losing. It's all about doing what's right, and as long as I do that I'll be proud of myself.
 
May 16, 2000
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Since nobody else pointed this out... if the cop doesn't show up to court, charges get dropped. And the cop isn't going to show up for something silly like this.

Just saw this. Actually in WA officers aren't required to show up for traffic citations. Their reports are entered as equivalent to their presence. Though you can subpoena them if you'd like.