Fallujah falls to Al Qaeda

[chucky2]

islam is not eastern. Islam and Christianity started in the same region.

Correct, my mistake. Doesn't really change my views on erasing radical Islam from the world.

do you consider Christianity western or eastern? or did you mean you want to erase christianity as well?

Obviously western. And ideally that would disappear as well. However in an ideal world, we wouldn't need the overhanging sword of hell to have people treat other people properly. Until we can get societies doing that, non-radicalized religions aren't too much of a problem providing their followers don't go too far off the reservation.

Stern, let alone radical, Islam really needs to go bye bye...a few hundred years ago.

 

[Fern]

islam is not eastern. Islam and Christianity started in the same region.
-snip-

True, particularly given that you say "started".

However, the West rather quickly co-opted Christianity. Very early on Rome had Christian churches and become the seat of authority. Protestantism was a Western movement (Martin Luther and John Calvin; a German and Scotsman respectively).

The seat of authority for Islam has always been, and remains, in the East (e.g., Qom)

Fern

 

[kage69]

True, particularly given that you say "started".

However, the West rather quickly co-opted Christianity. Very early on Rome had Christian churches and become the seat of authority. Protestantism was a Western movement (Martin Luther and John Calvin; a German and Scotsman respectively).

The seat of authority for Islam has always been, and remains, in the East (e.g.,Mecca)

Fern

There you go.

 

[Fern]

There you go.

By the "seat" I mean religious authority. E.g., for Catholicism it's in Rome/Vatican where the Pope resides. For the Shia it's in Qom where the highest Shia scholars/authorities are.

Is Mecca the seat of Sunni authority? I.e., is that where are the high Sunni scholars are?

Fern

 

[kage69]

By the "seat" I mean religious authority. E.g., for Catholicism it's in Rome/Vatican where the Pope resides. For the Shia it's in Qom where the highest Shia scholars/authorities are.

Is Mecca the seat of Sunni authority? I.e., is that where are the high Sunni scholars are?

Fern

If you are only talking about Shi'a, then you should be specific. You stated Islam as a whole. But regardless, Mecca is the seat of muslim 'religious authority,' followed by Medina and Jerusalem. They are refereed to as the "3 Holy Cities" This is accepted by all muslims, regardless of sect.

If you were only speaking about Shi'a, I'm still not sure Qom is what you want. Number of scholars doesn't mean much compared to historical context, and in that regard I've always been told Najaf and Karbala were the important centers. Najaf gets a shit load of pilgrims, but nothing like what happens to Mecca for the haj.

You know when they pray facing the east, it's because they are facing the Kaaba - which is not located in Qoms.

 

[werepossum]

islam is not eastern. Islam and Christianity started in the same region.

do you consider Christianity western or eastern? or did you mean you want to erase christianity as well?

Started in the Middle East, yes, but Islam largely killed it off there. Now Christianity is an integral part of Western civilization in a way that Islam can never be.

Oh really?

First thing I'd be asking al-Maliki would be how he's going to be paying for this. Payment up front, no credit.

 

[Nebor]

Started in the Middle East, yes, but Islam largely killed it off there. Now Christianity is an integral part of Western civilization in a way that Islam can never be.


First thing I'd be asking al-Maliki would be how he's going to be paying for this. Payment up front, no credit.

Oil money. Iraq isn't poor like Afghanistan.

 

[Fern]

If you are only talking about Shi'a, then you should be specific. You stated Islam as a whole. But regardless, Mecca is the seat of muslim 'religious authority,' followed by Medina and Jerusalem. They are refereed to as the "3 Holy Cities" This is accepted by all muslims, regardless of sect.

If you were only speaking about Shi'a, I'm still not sure Qom is what you want. Number of scholars doesn't mean much compared to historical context, and in that regard I've always been told Najaf and Karbala were the important centers. Najaf gets a shit load of pilgrims, but nothing like what happens to Mecca for the haj.

You know when they pray facing the east, it's because they are facing the Kaaba - which is not located in Qoms.

You're referring to shrines and the like. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Christiandom, but the Pope ain't there, nor anyone else of authority.

I'm referring to individuals who have the supreme authority, similar to the Pope for Catholics. And I'm unaware of any in Mecca.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Oil money. Iraq isn't poor like Afghanistan.

Oh, I'm sure Iraq has no problem coming up with the money, but I suspect they'll have a big problem actually forking it over.

 

[kage69]

You're referring to shrines and the like. Jerusalem is the holiest city in Christiandom, but the Pope ain't there, nor anyone else of authority.

I'm referring to individuals who have the supreme authority, similar to the Pope for Catholics. And I'm unaware of any in Mecca.

Fern

Not a great example really, certainly not one non-catholics would agree with.
You are oversimplifying it granted, but now I understand you: you want to know why islam as a religion does not have a central hierarchy in a sense that christianity does.

The short answer is, it just doesn't. A much different cultural background and no Reformation makes it a bit of apples to oranges comparison, not to mention 'religious leadership' is an entirely different concept in islam. Any muslim who has completed study of the koran can lead others in prayer. If they choose to go the full priest/academic route, they can even issue their own fatwas! Unapproved reinterpretation and preaching was an entirely different ball of myrrh in Rome's eyes, just ask the Huguenots.

If you need to look at it that way, where academics speak for and represent all of their sectarian traditions, then for Sunni islam I guess whomever heads Al Azhar University in Cairo, so Al Tayyeb. He's been in the news a lot with the whole Morsi thing lately, you may have heard about him. Nice guy who leads the worlds second oldest still operating school. Classes have been going on there uninterrupted since 975 A.C.E! Still amazes me.

Anyway, for the Shi'a, the guy in charge is technically the missing Imam, Mr. 12. I would say the Ayatollah, but I've been corrected in the past on that he's not the highest ranking cleric, and that there is no real formal religious hierarchy within Shiite Islam and therefore no centralized location.

 

[CitizenKain]

This insanely violent forum member is still present advocating the most extreme terrorism and violence. Nebor's advocating killing meme remains consistent with his posting history:

If Nebor was ever in the military, I doubt he ever got past sitting in a stateside base for 4 years. Those kind always talk tough to try and make up for wasting a couple years of their life pretending to be a soldier.

 

[Nebor]

If Nebor was ever in the military, I doubt he ever got past sitting in a stateside base for 4 years. Those kind always talk tough to try and make up for wasting a couple years of their life pretending to be a soldier.

I've done two "long" tours in Afghanistan and several TARs (Theater Area Reconnaissance.) Here's a few pictures I already had sitting on photobucket, but I have a couple hundred others.

Toby the Dog. Part of a litter of 15, all of which survived to adulthood due to our efforts in inoculating them. Usually only a third of each litter survives to adulthood. This was in 2010, as is evident by the fact that we were still wearing ACUs.


Doing an HA drop of school supplies in Kabul in the summer of 2010.


The funniest morale patch I've ever seen. A squad of German Infantrymen were wearing them in the Camp Souter dining facility. Also 2010.


The Dara-I-Pech district of Kunar Province (location of Operation Red Wings, aka Lone Survivor) as seen from a UH60 in the spring of 2012.


A combined QRF of Afghan National Army, Afghan National Police, and Afghan Border Police that I mentored and went on missions with in 2012.


A combined planning session for Operation Shaugira in late 2012.


My home away from home, on the banks of the Kunar river in 2012.


Trying to learn how to fish, the Afghan way. It's fucking hard.


Down the barrel of a mk19 during a joint clearing operation in Bar Kunar.


The "esteemed" former governor of Kunar Province, Fazlullah Wahidi, during one of our weekly meetings.

 

[Nebor]

Only 10 pictures per post.


Wahidi's prized peacock.


Sharing Thanksgiving 2012 with the Afghans.



The hole that the RPG blew in the roof of my sleeping quarters.


The tail of the RPG.

 

[chucky2]

You're so FOS Nebor, anyone could have taken those pictures. Show us something real, something that proves you are who say you are...like a shitty arm tat. I bet you don't even drink Laphroaig...

 

[Nebor]

You're so FOS Nebor, anyone could have taken those pictures. Show us something real, something that proves you are who say you are...like a shitty arm tat. I bet you don't even drink Laphroaig...

I feel like this is a joke that I'm not aware of...

 

[chucky2]

I feel like this is a joke that I'm not aware of...

That's because only SAS Captains know the truth...

 

[Nebor]

That's because only SAS Captains know the truth...

"Who dares lies."

 

[chucky2]

Haha

 

[kage69]

Good pics Nebor.


I thought fishing Afghan style involved a couple grenades though. That's how you make that job really easy.