Falklands War part 2?

[CallMeJoe]

Ultimately , a new nation did inherit them , rendering the two
former colonial power illegitimate...

So Argentina can inherit legitimate claim to the islands from one colonial power, but the current residents of those islands can not inherit their claim from the other?

 

[Abwx]

Argentina's claim comes from Spain's claim. Why do you think Spain's claim was more legitimate than the UK's? Because it came first? There's no point overanalyzing these historical colonial claims.

The only thing that really relevant today is that the UK's been in possession for over a hundred years and more importantly that the people there want to be British.

What you say is ridiculous as this would amount to legitimize
anything providing the offender create facts on the ground..

Such purpotedly created facts are the responsability of the offender,
and he can in no way use them as an excuse to perpetuate his crime...

If i understand well , i can steal your car and it will be mine provided
it stay my "property" enough time to allow the theft being legal...

 

[Abwx]

So Argentina can inherit legitimate claim to the islands from one colonial power, but the current residents of those islands can not inherit their claim from the other?

England knew that Argentina was claiming the islands ,
yet she brought peoples to create facts on the grounds
and hence she thought that it would render the seizing irreversible.

Argentina would be stupid to consider such things as legitimate,
as these people were brought intentionnaly by the UK , it s the
problem of the UK not of Argentina.

 

[RabidMongoose]

England knew that Argentina was claiming the islands ,
yet she brought peoples to create facts on the grounds
and hence she thought that it would render the seizing irreversible.

Argentina would be stupid to consider such things as legitimate,
as these people were brought intentionnaly by the UK , it s the
problem of the UK not of Argentina.

I think that it's an issue that Argentina will have to deal with. For example, the citizens currently residing in the Malvinas could be granted dual Argentinian/British citizenship when control of the Malvinas is transferred to Argentina.

But, yes, you do bring a good point up. It would be similar to Argentina landing forces on a random uninhabited British island, putting people there, and then saying that it should be left to a referendum of the people on the island as to whether they want to be Argentinian or British.

Ultimately, the British activity doesn't end up in legitimizing their actions just because time has passed while Argentina has been actively against the British actions.

You bring up excellent points. Thank you.

 

[Infohawk]

Ultimately , a new nation did inherit them , rendering the two
former colonial power illegitimate.

Do you think the creation of Israel means its claims are automatically valid?

The only reason people think countries like the US had more claims to land in North America than the British is that the Americans lived there. Did Canadians not have a valid claim to their lands until they formally became a new country? You have to look at who lives in a location and what they want. Here, they want to remain British. Deal with it.

What you say is ridiculous as this would amount to legitimize
anything providing the offender create facts on the ground..

No it doesn't.

It s just funny to see how die hard extremist the UK is when
claiming a land that has nothing to do with the UK.

How are they extremists? How often do countries give up its territory without a fight? (The UK is one of the few countries that would have honored its departure from Hong Kong.)

As usual , you miss all the meanings ,infohawx....
With only a few safe neurones you would have guessed
that i was comparing History to Picasso....

Do you know what intellectually dishonest means? Your analogy was clearly that the Nazis didn't understand Picasso the way KMFJD didn't understand you. You are suggesting your posts have some actual merit like Picasso's work did. Nice try. Nice twist on Godwin's Law.

 

[Wreckem]

The US will side with the UK if Argentina tries to use force to take the Falklands. Anyone who believes otherwise is completely delusional.

 

[CallMeJoe]

England knew that Argentina was claiming the islands ,
yet she brought peoples to create facts on the grounds
and hence she thought that it would render the seizing irreversible.

Argentina would be stupid to consider such things as legitimate,
as these people were brought intentionnaly by the UK , it s the
problem of the UK not of Argentina.

You're still confusing me... you seem to assert that European colonial claims to the islands were all illegitimate, but that Argentina could legitimately claim the islands because they inherited that claim from Spain, an illegitimate European colonial power, and that this illegitimate inherited claim was somehow legitimate enough that Britain should immediately have ceded to it even though Britain had a claim legitimate enough that the earliest Argentine settlers asked British permission to move to the islands and requested British protection if they stayed.

 

[BladeVenom]

The islands were property of Argentina.

The islands were originally uninhibited, and were claimed by France, Spain, and Britain before Argentina was even a country.

 

[RabidMongoose]

The US will side with the UK if Argentina tries to use force to take the Falklands. Anyone who believes otherwise is completely delusional.

The only people who are talking about the use of force are the pro-UK posters in this thread with genocide fetishes where they have talked about the UK launching all sorts of attacks on Argentina.

Argentina is not advocating the slightest amount of force or military action. It is a very peaceful country.

 

[CanOWorms]

I think a dual sovereignty role may be what's needed.

The Malvinas have a sparse population; the islands are mostly uninhabited. Why not let Argentina have the uninhabited portions of the islands? They can build new cities, infrastructure, and industries. Right now, the islands are mostly neglected because they are so far away from the UK and they are politically sensitive with Latin America supporting Argentina and the UK's militarization of the South Atlantic causing issues. Argentina, being the closest country and having a lot of pride over having the Malvinas returned, would likely develop the islands to their full potential. This has benefits to the most amount of people. The earth has limited resources, and this seems like an efficient way to use those resources. Argentina can also have all of the natural resource rights around the islands.

I'm sure more solutions can come out if the parties have bilateral talks on sovereignty.

Ultimately, this is something that needs to be addressed by the world community, and should have been addressed following or during WW2, where the British Empire should have been fully dismantled. However, it was ignored, and now we're dealing with it today, and will deal with it in the future in regards to the Malvinas and other territories. On one end, we can dismantle the entire Empire as well as the UK itself. The other would be to preserve the state of the Empire. The result will lie in the middle.

 

[monovillage]

I like the solution of the Falklands taking the lower half of Argentina since it's so sparsely populated. The U.K.could sure use the natural resources.

 

[CanOWorms]

I like the solution of the Falklands taking the lower half of Argentina since it's so sparsely populated. The U.K.could sure use the natural resources.

Many can sure advocate that. I advocate the settlement of refugees from Africa in Europe due to the low birth rates of European nations and that the world can't afford to let all of that infrastructure go to waste, particularly because it was made because the wealth was extracted from overseas. However, population is only one of the factors that I consider, and of those that I listed. Do you think it should be the only one? India and China would own the world!

 

[monovillage]

Many can sure advocate that. I advocate the settlement of refugees from Africa in Europe due to the low birth rates of European nations and that the world can't afford to let all of that infrastructure go to waste, particularly because it was made because the wealth was extracted from overseas. However, population is only one of the factors that I consider, and of those that I listed. Do you think it should be the only one? India and China would own the world!

Makes a hell of a lot more sense then your stupid Argentina and Falklands argument.... wait, you've never provided one.

 

[WelshBloke]

I've been busy at work so haven't kept up with this thread.

Has anybody posted explaining where Spain's claim (that the Argentinian one is built on) comes from?

I'll check back through the thread as I'm sure Rabid has had time to post the claims he accepts by now.

 

[pcgeek11]

it s the
problem of the UK not of Argentina.

No. It is Argentina's problem because UK is in Possession and there isn't a fucking thing Argentina can do about it except rattle and huff.

 

[WelshBloke]

Argentina is not advocating the slightest amount of force or military action. It is a very peaceful country.

Apart from last time they got worked up about this and invaded.

 

[Veliko]

I've been busy at work so haven't kept up with this thread.

Has anybody posted explaining where Spain's claim (that the Argentinian one is built on) comes from?

I'll check back through the thread as I'm sure Rabid has had time to post the claims he accepts by now.

The only thing he has done is avoid questions and repeat himself.

He says that British colonialism is bad but won't answer why he thinks Argentinian colonialism is a positive thing.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Apart from last time they got worked up about this and invaded.

That was 30 years ago under a military junta. If we want to go by history, then clearly the UK is the more likely aggressor at this point. Argentina is very peaceful and has no desire for violence. I don't think that the same can be said of the UK at this time, which went into Iraq illegally with the US.

 

[WelshBloke]

That was 30 years ago under a military junta. If we want to go by history, then clearly the UK is the more likely aggressor at this point. Argentina is very peaceful and has no desire for violence. I don't think that the same can be said of the UK at this time, which went into Iraq illegally with the US.

So why are they complaining about a British warship being in British water?

I mean if they aren't going to plan any military actions what difference does it make to them?

 

[RabidMongoose]

I've been busy at work so haven't kept up with this thread.

Has anybody posted explaining where Spain's claim (that the Argentinian one is built on) comes from?

I'll check back through the thread as I'm sure Rabid has had time to post the claims he accepts by now.

Argentina's claims come from more than just Spain. Argentina has many claims to the Malvinas, as I've already linked to.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So why are they complaining about a British warship being in British water?

I mean if they aren't going to plan any military actions what difference does it make to them?

Because the British are militarizing the area, essentially threatening the peaceful Argentinians.

The only people who are doing anything militaristic are the British and the pro-UK posters who have been talking about committing genocide upon Argentina.

Argentina has been pretty open about peaceful discussion. Moreover, Argentina is a very peaceful country.

 

[WelshBloke]

Argentina's claims come from more than just Spain. Argentina has many claims to the Malvinas, as I've already linked to.

So post the ones you think are valid then.

If all it take is a post to Wiki for both sides then you could have just posted once in this thread.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So post the ones you think are valid then.

If all it take is a post to Wiki for both sides then you could have just posted once in this thread.

I've already stated that I believe that all of Argentina's claims are valid and more specific, I believe that the aggregate of Argentina's claims are legitimate. Do you have any specific questions?

 

[Abwx]

Do you know what intellectually dishonest means? Your analogy was clearly that the Nazis didn't understand Picasso the way KMFJD didn't understand you. You are suggesting your posts have some actual merit like Picasso's work did. Nice try. Nice twist on Godwin's Law.

Intellectual dishonesty is to deny people s sayings and replacing
them by a what suit your twisted point , wich is indeed your usual
rethoric at P&N...

I clearly stated that the guy was ignorant of past history wich
he said about it that it was shit , hence the comparison with
nazis that were ignorant of contemporary art.

 

[WelshBloke]

I've already stated that I believe that all of Argentina's claims are valid and more specific, I believe that the aggregate of Argentina's claims are legitimate. Do you have any specific questions?

OK then why do you think the Pope had the authority to grant all of South America to Spain or Portugal? Even the parts of it that had not been discovered.