Faith-Based Economics

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Faith-Based Economics

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The US economy has ceased to create jobs in tradable goods and services. The disastrous September payroll jobs data are a repeat of the monthly trend that has held for the nearly four years of the Bush administration.

Of September's 96,000 new jobs, 73% are accounted for by two categories: government jobs and temporary help! There were only 59,000 private sector jobs created in September, and 33,000 of those--56%--are temps!

Manufacturing lost another 18,000 jobs. More Americans are employed in accommodations and food services than as production workers.

It is easy to blame the Bush administration, but the real blame lies with outsourcing and offshore production. By locating production for US markets offshore, US firms can substitute much cheaper foreign labor for US labor to make the goods and services sold to Americans. The high speed Internet makes it possible for US firms to hire foreigners residing abroad, where living costs are low, to do knowledge-based jobs formerly performed by US university graduates.

The US is losing the ability to manufacture a range of advanced technology products and is now dependent on imports of advanced technology goods from China and Japan. Entire high tech occupations are beginning to disappear in America, with computer engineering enrollments in topflight schools such as M.I.T., Georgia Tech, and UC, Berkeley shrinking by 45%.

Last week economist Joseph Stiglitz reported that median US income has fallen by over $1,500 in real terms over the past three and one-half years.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, "free market," "free-trade" economists continue to give assurances that Americans are prospering from outsourcing.

This delusion is equivalent to the Bush administration's delusion that the US is winning in Iraq.

US multinational firms, whose top executives and shareholders benefit from outsourcing, hire think-tanks to produce "studies" that conclude Americans benefit from the loss of jobs and careers to foreigners.


All the while the American labor force is being redirected into domestic nontradable services, an influx that depresses wages in domestic services. At the same time, illegal aliens are flooding into US construction jobs. Local governments and hospitals, claiming "shortages," import foreign teachers and nurses who will work for less.

It is not clear how many of the jobs created in September went to Americans.

Faced with hard facts, economists take refuge in deceitful nonsense equivalent to the Bush administration's claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks.

As high-tech US jobs move offshore, economists chant a lemming-like chorus: the answer is more high-tech education.

Bill Gates responds to shrinking job opportunities for American engineers by beating the drums for more engineering majors.

Other economists claim that we need more tax cuts to help US firms acquire more capital with which to make US workers more productive and, thus, more competitive. This is a pointless exercise when the capital (and technology) is being used to employ foreigners in place of Americans.

Other economists claim that outsourcing can only be a small problem, because 90% of US output produced offshore is sold in foreign markets. This claim overlooks the inherited foreign investment America built up during its half century dominance of world trade and manufacturing. These foreign investments by US firms were made in order to sell in foreign markets, not as offshore platforms to serve domestic US markets.

Outsourcing and offshore production are new phenomena. They have not been around long enough to comprise a large share of US production abroad. But they have been around long enough to erode American employment and wages in tradable goods and services.

When a US multinational ceases to produce in Ohio for its domestic markets, and moves the production abroad, the Ohio jobs disappear. Wages fall or stagnate in similar lines of work that still remain the the US.

When Intel, Microsoft and all the rest hire Asian software engineers, the US engineers are out of work. US careers are sent abroad and given to foreigners, and with them go the incomes that comprise America's ladders of upward mobility.

American students are becoming aware of the facts, but economists hold firmly to their fantasy that other new and even better jobs are taking the place of those that have been outsourced. There is no evidence whatsoever in behalf of this claim.


Economics has ceased to be an empirical science and has become a religious faith.

-------------

Paul Craig Roberts is John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He is a former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal and a former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Classical economics has been flawed from the start. Infinite growth can not occur in a finite universe.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Classical economics has been flawed from the start. Infinite growth can not occur in a finite universe.

Yet there is no proof that the universe finite, so your argument is flawed as well. ;)
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Hard fact: My company, an automobile parts manufacturing company, has 8 factories in Mexico and 8 in the US. We are building 2 in Mexico to take the place of 5 of the US. Many other auto manufacturers are doing the same, hence we have to also to compete (or so they say).

Will all jobs go to Mexico (or China, or whever)? No.

Will the outflux of decent paying jobs hurt the American people? I think so

Will prices be reduced to reflect the cheaper labor? No

Will profits rise? Maybe...depends on whether the remaining people working in the higher paying jobs or the ones that moved to lower paying service jobs.

Will companies take their extra money from outsourcing and create new, higher paying jobs? Probably not...as even the technical jobs are easier to outsource...especially with increases in communication technology (i.e. Internet, etc).

Am I glad to have a job (at least for the time being...as my bosses boss is in China looking for "skilled trade" workers (tool shops) to try to outsource our work to China at a labor rate of $0.90 to $1.50 per day): Yes, I'm glad. I can only hope that everyone else has too.

 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: conjur
That link doesn't point to that article.
Oops fixed the link.
Thanks...but:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
Government...........| 21,548| p21,606| 21,572| p21,604| p21,641| p37
37,000 increase in Gov't jobs.

I don't see where the temporary worker numbers came from.

From your page:

" Employment in professional and technical services grew by 24,000 in Septem-
ber. Since August 2003, this industry has added 205,000 jobs. Temporary help
services employment was up by 33,000 in September, following 2 months of smaller
increases.
Employment in management of companies and enterprises fell by 11,000
over the month, following a smaller decline in August."
 

Yolner

Banned
Jul 4, 2004
486
0
0
So all the college kids now are paying 40k+ for college educations to work at burger king because all the jobs now belong to fvcking china and fvcking india.

Thank you mr. president for selling us out to the fvcking greedy a$$ corporations.
 

AFB

Lifer
Jan 10, 2004
10,718
3
0
Originally posted by: Yolner
So all the college kids now are paying 40k+ for college educations to work at burger king because all the jobs now belong to fvcking china and fvcking india.

Thank you mr. president for selling us out to the fvcking greedy a$$ corporations.

It's not his fault, but he hasn't helped.
 

AntiEverything

Senior member
Aug 5, 2004
939
0
0
If we keep all the jobs here in the US instead of redistributing them around the globe, aren't we being greedy capitalist pigs?

Or do liberals only prefer distributionist policy within the US? I thought we were supposed to be good global citizens?
 

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
2,335
0
0
So all the college kids now are paying 40k+ for college educations to work at burger king because all the jobs now belong to fvcking china and fvcking india.

exactly it all comes down to greed, and the republicans cater to this crowd, while gaining support by dillusioning uneducated masses
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: AntiEverything
If we keep all the jobs here in the US instead of redistributing them around the globe, aren't we being greedy capitalist pigs?

Or do liberals only prefer distributionist policy within the US? I thought we were supposed to be good global citizens?

Are you volunteering to give up your job for someone in Mexico or India?

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,789
6,349
126
It's not enough to be Profitable anymore, you need to be as Profitable as Mathematically possible. Whether it's Shareholders Greed or the constant drive for lower priced Goods(Walmart and others) it doesn't really matter, both are equally destructive to the Middle Class. The Middle Class can't live off of Dividends from Shares and they can't work for the Wages necessary to produce cheap(ever cheapening) Goods. Unless something New(unique High Tech gadget that only can be made in the US and everyone the World over Needs/Wants) comes along soon, the Middle Class will shrink into obscurity.

It is possible that all this is being planned/implemented on purpose by someone/some Organization because there is something New in the wings, let's hope so.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
How can you blame the companies? My dads company makes lighting and in order to compete we had to open a shop in china or he would have been bankrupt, period. Americans workers can not compete with $100 a month per worker even working at minimum wage (about $1200 with payroll taxes)..we even tried illegals for awile but they cost too much! We also have a shop in England because the Bush administration made tritium manufaucture illegal for our size company due to terror concerns. Basically it's a failure at the policy level probably driven by huge multinationals. Only way to compete is lower minimum wage to $100 (well the shipping crates cost $2500 so factor that in) or tarriffs.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
It's not enough to be Profitable anymore, you need to be as Profitable as Mathematically possible. Whether it's Shareholders Greed or the constant drive for lower priced Goods(Walmart and others) it doesn't really matter, both are equally destructive to the Middle Class. The Middle Class can't live off of Dividends from Shares and they can't work for the Wages necessary to produce cheap(ever cheapening) Goods. Unless something New(unique High Tech gadget that only can be made in the US and everyone the World over Needs/Wants) comes along soon, the Middle Class will shrink into obscurity.

It is possible that all this is being planned/implemented on purpose by someone/some Organization because there is something New in the wings, let's hope so.
Here's the rub . . . if you look at three of the most pressing future needs: 1) nonfossil fuel based energy sources, 2) engine technology that isn't totally dependent on the fossil fuel ICE, and 3) means of controlling point source pollution (factories/powerplants) . . . America has the talent and financial resources to dominate. Yet look where we invest our money . . . "clean coal", hydrogen cars (based on fossil fuel produced hydrogen), and lobbying efforts to prohibit regulations requiring improved pollution control and more efficient automobiles.

While there's no guarantee that fusion will work . . . it's abundantly clear that it will not be working in America unless we steal the designs.

It seems downright ridiculous that a country that pays its farmers NOT to grow crops, highly subsidizes them when they do, and is filled to the brim with McDonalds . . . isn't investing a near mint into biodiesel production and engine technology.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Three questions:

In the big picture, wouldn't it be better to compete with foreign companies by outsourcing and maintaining a profit that could be infused into our economy? Or is it better to not compete and let your business go under?

How is the Author able to draw a conclusion that economics= belief in God?
:confused:
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Seems "faith based" economists forgot about accountants. I know the basics. More money going out than coming in (trade imbalance) is a "Bad Thing" aka RED makes you (America) poorer the other guy (China) richer. That's how they can finance our debt load and buy all our companies...they have to spend this "imbalance" somehow how about taking over america?
 

lordtyranus

Banned
Aug 23, 2004
1,324
0
0
Originally posted by: Yolner
So all the college kids now are paying 40k+ for college educations to work at burger king because all the jobs now belong to fvcking china and fvcking india.

Thank you mr. president for selling us out to the fvcking greedy a$$ corporations.
Call the Waaaaaaaaaaaaahmbulance.
 

AntiEverything

Senior member
Aug 5, 2004
939
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: AntiEverything
If we keep all the jobs here in the US instead of redistributing them around the globe, aren't we being greedy capitalist pigs?

Or do liberals only prefer distributionist policy within the US? I thought we were supposed to be good global citizens?

Are you volunteering to give up your job for someone in Mexico or India?

Answer my question, try not dodge.

On one hand, you lefties keep saying we're supposed to be good world citizens, give our money to the poor, etc. On the other hand, you throw a tantrum when a job is shipped to another country, and something is taken from an American and given to a poor person in another country.

Just seems a bit hypocritical to me.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Dude you are so clueless. When Indonesian kids are paid pennies per 14hr day to make Nikes that sell for $100+ . . . that's what "some" lefties complain about.

It's abundantly clear to everyone except morons that corporate America has decided the goal is to make a buck at all costs. Owners and upper management can make mad bank by moving design, development, and production to almost any country on the globe. It is absolutely true that this movement of capital provides good employment to many people that might otherwise live a far harsher life. In the meantime . . . unskilled, semi-skilled, and now highly educated American workers are feeling the pinch.

Corporations are exacting more and more concessions from government at every level. Everything from direct subsidies to tax breaks. Once you factor in the declining tax rates for capital gains and dividends it's abundantly clear that a small group is chillin' like a villain while the majority are out in the cold.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
The almighty dollar is all that counts. If anything else counts, you are either naive or foolish or both. I think sandorski said it best, it's not about being profitable, it's about being as profitable as mathematically possible. Anything that gets in the way, like American jobs and welbeing is just collateral damage. Maybe you guys shouldn't have been business majors ;) Science is where the real money is at /sarcasm