Faced with defeat, Trump now says Obama was too dumb for Harvard, Columbia

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etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
1
71
I think The Don has gone "full retard".

What's even more tragic is that at least some people (voters, presumably) are buying into it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
What ivory tower do you live in? Last time I checked the most popular selling newspaper in America is still the National Enquirer which sells more copies then all other newspapers combined. The public couldn't give a shit about "legitimate debate" and wouldn't know a logical fallacy from a hole in the ground.

National Enquirer's circulation is just over a million or so, but it is a weekly paper. In contrast the Wall St. Journal and USA today hover around 2 million daily. The Enquirer comes nowhere close to outselling all other newspapers combined, its sales are in fact dwarfed by other legitimate news outlets.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
What ivory tower do you live in? Last time I checked the most popular selling newspaper in America is still the National Enquirer which sells more copies then all other newspapers combined. The public couldn't give a shit about "legitimate debate" and wouldn't know a logical fallacy from a hole in the ground.

That's kinda the whole point: Trump can spout illogical bullshit all day long and the media will print it without fact-checking b/c it pushes papers, eyeballs, and clicks and the American populace will eat it up. If it's on the news it must be true! N/m that it's 100% bullshit...
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,007
136
You have said some doozies in the past, but this takes the cake. You make GWB look like an intellectual Einstein.

Responding to that troll as if he is serious merely reflects back on how poorly you understand him.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Trump's implied allegation, that Obama is/was "too stupid" or "not a good enough student" and thus is a bad President and/or unfit for a second term is a pure straw man argument. The only place you can make an argument like that and have people believe you is in the media, where fact-checking and ethics have become woefully absent. In any legitimate debate or discussion Trump's implied allegations would be dismissed completely.

That's kinda the whole point: Trump can spout illogical bullshit all day long and the media will print it without fact-checking b/c it pushes papers, eyeballs, and clicks and the American populace will eat it up. If it's on the news it must be true! N/m that it's 100% bullshit...

For one thing, this is not a "pure straw man" argument. A straw man argument is something different.

For another, the media cannot "fact check". Obama has not released his academic records so there's nothing to fact check to.

I also think you miss the point of what Trump is doing. While Trump may be many things, he is not entirely stupid. He knows to use the media, and he knows how to exert pressure. And he knows that if left uncontested some people will believe the allegations. He knows that very well IMO. I also think he knows that the Obama team knows that too.

Obama himself boasted many times that he will transparent etc. He has not been, very few argue that. So, Obama left himself open and Trump is moving to take advantage of it. It has been noted many times that Obama, by being a relative unknown, let himself become a blank canvase that people could paint on it what they wanted. Trump is using same principal to his advantage. Obama's failing to release his academic records leaves us with a blank canvase and Trump is stepping up to paint it as he wishes. Trump is painting a negative image (AA student etc) and may force Obama to release those records (if he can) if Trump's (unflattering) picture gains traction.

If Trump manages to get Obama to release the academic records, that'll be the second time "The Donald" has forced/manipulated him to do so. That puts Trump in a strong position and Obama in a weak one. Is he showing us Obama is a weak player we don't want representing us in foreign affairs? Is Obama being outplayed/manipulated by others just as Trump is doing (or may do)?

I contend you're seeing the 'art of the deal' here, a demonstration of 'negotiating'.

It's long been held that when a lower player (Trump) can mange to force a higher player (Obama) to engage them, the lower player gains big. The higher player wants to ignore the lower player; Trump's beaten him once.

Fern
 
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wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
National Enquirer's circulation is just over a million or so, but it is a weekly paper. In contrast the Wall St. Journal and USA today hover around 2 million daily. The Enquirer comes nowhere close to outselling all other newspapers combined, its sales are in fact dwarfed by other legitimate news outlets.


Well, yeah, with competition like Fox News, reality tv, and the internet sales have slumped. Still, the basic idea that at least a third of Americans believe in things like ghosts, esp, and astrology still applies. These are not deep thinkers and recent surveys have show one quarter of Americans and 40% of republicans believe Obama was born in another country. Not exactly a show of great support for demanding proof much less understanding logical fallacies.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
That's kinda the whole point: Trump can spout illogical bullshit all day long and the media will print it without fact-checking b/c it pushes papers, eyeballs, and clicks and the American populace will eat it up. If it's on the news it must be true! N/m that it's 100% bullshit...


They don't care if it is on the news or merely a superstition or rumor. These people are not picky.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
If Trump manages to get Obama to release the academic records, that'll be the second time "The Donald" has forced him to do so.

I believe you are misinterpreting events.

Consider- Obama didn't produce the long form for quite some time. He was issued the same document that you would have gotten if you were from HI. It was most illuminating to watch the exchange between him and Stephanopoulos. His posture and language showed that he believed he had the clear advantage given the the two facts presented. Obama was not inclined to play along and if he was he was unable to produce something that he could counter with.

Consequently Trump set himself up for a sound spanking and now has to go to plan B. This also disqualifies him as suited for the Office since he's so easy to manipulate.

I've been doing some thinking about Mr. Trump and when I look at his accomplishments and demeanor I can't think of one redeeming human quality he possesses. In the ways I measure a man he is among the most impoverished in the public eye. He's a poor man.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
For one thing, this is not a "pure straw man" argument. A straw man argument is something different.

You're right it's not "pure" straw man, but it's mostly distortion and obfuscation.

Trump: Based on no evidence I submit that Obama could not have gotten into Columbia and Harvard and that he was, in fact, a sub-par student.

Obama: I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Trump: AHA! By not responding to my baseless suppositions you obviously have something to hide, which must mean that you were, in fact, an F- student who is too stupid to be President and also are the product of some vast Socialist conspiracy to get an unqualified puppet foreigner elected President

For another, the media cannot "fact check". Obama has not released his academic records so there's nothing to fact check to.

I said "fact-checking and ethics". If you can't fact-check and have zero proof of the accuracy of the report journalistic ethics dictate you not run the story.

I also think you miss the point of what Trump is doing. While Trump may be many things, he is not entirely stupid. He knows to use the media, and he knows how to exert pressure. And he knows that if left uncontested some people will believe the allegations. He knows that very well IMO. I also think he knows that the Obama team knows that too.

Obama himself boasted many times that he will transparent etc. He has not been, very few argue that. So, Obama left himself open and Trump is moving to take advantage of it. It has been noted many times that Obama, by being a relative unknown, let himself become a blank canvase that people could paint on it what they wanted. Trump is using same principal to his advantage. Obama's failing to release his academic records leaves us with a blank canvase and Trump is stepping up to paint it as he wishes. Trump is painting a negative image (AA student etc) and may force Obama to release those records (if he can) if Trump's (unflattering) picture gains traction.

If Trump manages to get Obama to release the academic records, that'll be the second time "The Donald" has forced/manipulated him to do so. That puts Trump in a strong position and Obama in a weak one. Is he showing us Obama is a weak player we don't want representing us in foreign affairs? Is Obama being outplayed/manipulated by others just as Trump is doing (or may do)?

I contend you're seeing the 'art of the deal' here, a demonstration of 'negotiating'.

It's long been held that when a lower player (Trump) can mange to force a higher player (Obama) to engage them, the lower player gains big. The higher player wants to ignore the lower player; Trump's beaten him once.

Fern

Oh, I know what Trump is trying to accomplish: he's pandering to the stupidity of Joe Six-Pack and using the corrupt media as his tool. He can sit back and throw shitbombs all day ("How do we know Obama isn't actually a hermaphrodite!?!), the ethically bankrupt media will run with it, and the partisan idiots will eat it up. It's the same thing people like Jesse Ventura tried to do after 9/11 (I tell you it was the .gov! The hole in the pentagon was too small, it was a missile man!). The only difference is that due to some deep-seated racial bias people are more likely to eat the crap that Trump is spooning to them.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
For one thing, this is not a "pure straw man" argument. A straw man argument is something different.

For another, the media cannot "fact check". Obama has not released his academic records so there's nothing to fact check to.

I also think you miss the point of what Trump is doing. While Trump may be many things, he is not entirely stupid. He knows to use the media, and he knows how to exert pressure. And he knows that if left uncontested some people will believe the allegations. He knows that very well IMO. I also think he knows that the Obama team knows that too.

Obama himself boasted many times that he will transparent etc. He has not been, very few argue that. So, Obama left himself open and Trump is moving to take advantage of it. It has been noted many times that Obama, by being a relative unknown, let himself become a blank canvase that people could paint on it what they wanted. Trump is using same principal to his advantage. Obama's failing to release his academic records leaves us with a blank canvase and Trump is stepping up to paint it as he wishes. Trump is painting a negative image (AA student etc) and may force Obama to release those records (if he can) if Trump's (unflattering) picture gains traction.

If Trump manages to get Obama to release the academic records, that'll be the second time "The Donald" has forced/manipulated him to do so. That puts Trump in a strong position and Obama in a weak one. Is he showing us Obama is a weak player we don't want representing us in foreign affairs? Is Obama being outplayed/manipulated by others just as Trump is doing (or may do)?

I contend you're seeing the 'art of the deal' here, a demonstration of 'negotiating'.

It's long been held that when a lower player (Trump) can mange to force a higher player (Obama) to engage them, the lower player gains big. The higher player wants to ignore the lower player; Trump's beaten him once.

I mostly agree and think Obama was stupid to release the birth cert. Sets a bad precedent. When crazy people make noise and you appease them, they just get crazy about something else and you encourage similar behavior. It's akin to the moral hazard of negotiating with terrorists.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,363
8,675
136
I mostly agree and think Obama was stupid to release the birth cert. Sets a bad precedent. When crazy people make noise and you appease them, they just get crazy about something else and you encourage similar behavior. It's akin to the moral hazard of negotiating with terrorists.
No, you're showing your stupidity. The White House didn't throw down the Trump card until 45% of republicans believed Obama wasn't born on US soil. Obama responded intelligently with his comments about the side show barkers and the need to dismiss them, which was a torpedo in Trump's side and the repubs who have been shooting at his knees. He had to eventually release the full document to allay any doubts and he did it right. Trump's saying Obama wasn't smart enough to get into Harvard can be seen as a racist attack, insinuating that affirmative action was what got Obama into Harvard. Trump has degenerated into a publicity hound. I guess it's been going on ever since he got into television. Too bad, at one time he was an extremely talented developer/entrepreneur. The truth of the matter is the 2012 presidency will be at its core a media circus, reason being the repubs have no shot at ousting Obama.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
No, you're showing your stupidity. The White House didn't throw down the Trump card until 45% of republicans believed Obama wasn't born on US soil. Obama responded intelligently with his comments about the side show barkers and the need to dismiss them, which was a torpedo in Trump's side and the repubs who have been shooting at his knees. He had to eventually release the full document to allay any doubts and he did it right. Trump's saying Obama wasn't smart enough to get into Harvard can be seen as a racist attack, insinuating that affirmative action was what got Obama into Harvard. Trump has degenerated into a publicity hound. I guess it's been going on ever since he got into television. Too bad, at one time he was an extremely talented developer/entrepreneur. The truth of the matter is the 2012 presidency will be at its core a media circus, reason being the repubs have no shot at ousting Obama.

I think we also all know Trump won't run. He doesn't want to release his actual financials because we'd see how full of shit he is. There's about as much chance of Trump running as there is of me spending this weekend with Scarlet Johannson.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
For one thing, this is not a "pure straw man" argument. A straw man argument is something different.

For another, the media cannot "fact check". Obama has not released his academic records so there's nothing to fact check to.

I also think you miss the point of what Trump is doing. While Trump may be many things, he is not entirely stupid. He knows to use the media, and he knows how to exert pressure. And he knows that if left uncontested some people will believe the allegations. He knows that very well IMO. I also think he knows that the Obama team knows that too.

Obama himself boasted many times that he will transparent etc. He has not been, very few argue that. So, Obama left himself open and Trump is moving to take advantage of it. It has been noted many times that Obama, by being a relative unknown, let himself become a blank canvase that people could paint on it what they wanted. Trump is using same principal to his advantage. Obama's failing to release his academic records leaves us with a blank canvase and Trump is stepping up to paint it as he wishes. Trump is painting a negative image (AA student etc) and may force Obama to release those records (if he can) if Trump's (unflattering) picture gains traction.

If Trump manages to get Obama to release the academic records, that'll be the second time "The Donald" has forced/manipulated him to do so. That puts Trump in a strong position and Obama in a weak one. Is he showing us Obama is a weak player we don't want representing us in foreign affairs? Is Obama being outplayed/manipulated by others just as Trump is doing (or may do)?

I contend you're seeing the 'art of the deal' here, a demonstration of 'negotiating'.

It's long been held that when a lower player (Trump) can mange to force a higher player (Obama) to engage them, the lower player gains big. The higher player wants to ignore the lower player; Trump's beaten him once.

Fern


An accusation ain't worth much if proven to be false. If Trump is wrong about Obama again, he continues to slide into the irrelevant category. You can win arguments about Obama the President, but you will lose attacking Obama the man. He is genuiely a good man and very likeable. He ain't Mother Theresa, but the man from a personal standpoint is going to be above most reproach. These attacks embolden Obama and makes him stronger, casting him in a more positive light. Trump is getting bad pr advice, this is a losing stragedy against someone like Obama. Charisma is far more powerful than Trump thinks.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
I mostly agree and think Obama was stupid to release the birth cert. Sets a bad precedent. When crazy people make noise and you appease them, they just get crazy about something else and you encourage similar behavior. It's akin to the moral hazard of negotiating with terrorists.


Must we declare war on everything in sight and compare every opponent to terrorists? Has America really become that dysfunctional that only radical extremes and rhetoric can now serve our purposes? I hope not and am glad to see Obama was willing to settle for a prolonged rope-a-dope with a group of people who obviously already unwilling to compromise.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
LOL! Here we go again.

All Bobo, the Post Turtle, need do is release his college records.

I'm not holding my breath.

This is fun.

LOL, who or what is "Bob the post turtle"?

Oh, and please post your original long form commercial pilots license for proof you are a pilot. And since you want college records, post your college transcripts as well.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Must we declare war on everything in sight and compare every opponent to terrorists?

Don't lose sight of the point because of the example. If you like, compare it to settling a discrimination claim when you are innocent. It provides incentive for others to sue on similar grounds. By showing you are willing to pay out to avoid a controversy it puts blood is in the water. MJ settled with his first accuser and it only prompted more. And no, I'm not saying Obama is a child molester.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
Don't lose sight of the point because of the example. If you like, compare it to settling a discrimination claim when you are innocent. It provides incentive for others to sue on similar grounds. By showing you are willing to pay out to avoid a controversy it puts blood is in the water. MJ settled with his first accuser and it only prompted more. And no, I'm not saying Obama is a child molester.


While I agree you want to encourage these yoyos as little as possible, this is not MJ settling out of court and it is not something Obama has done lightly. He has basically bitch slapped his opponents and pulled off a huge rope-a-dope victory at a time when he needs all the support he can get. In other words, he maximized his return on his sacrifice and only made the sacrifice when it was clear he had little choice.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
LOL, who or what is "Bob the post turtle"?

Oh, and please post your original long form commercial pilots license for proof you are a pilot. And since you want college records, post your college transcripts as well.

It's Bobo, the Post Turtle, not Bob. Get it right.

It too late now, I'm retired, but if you don't think your pilot is qualified, then don't get on the aircraft.

Oh, yes, this is who Bobo, the Post Turtle is:

Obamaturtle-1.jpg


Thank you for asking. I love posting this.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136

You know exactly what kind of dumbass put him up there, a redneck idiot who thinks it's fun to torture animals, But they usually vote republican, so I don't see how it fits. But, I'm neither redneck, nor republican. :D
 
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wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
You know exactly what kind of dumbass put him up there, a redneck idiot who thinks it's fun to torture animals, But they usually vote republican, so I don't see how it fits. But, I'm neither redneck, nor republican. :D


Its not even remotely a new joke.

images