Facebook is full of poop, again, another "duh" moment, but its nice to see evidence.

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
126


Frances Haugen, a data scientist who worked at Facebook as a product manager on the Civic Integrity team, said the social media platform has lied to the public about resolving hate and violence to increase traffic and engagement—and in turn, profit.

Among the allegations she leveled at Facebook was that the company bears responsibility for the Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol riot, because it reversed some of its safeguards against misinformation after the 2020 election.

“Facebook has realized that if they change the algorithm to be safer, people will spend less time on the site, they’ll click on less ads, they’ll make less money,” Haugen told 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley.
Information most of us assumed already.
I dont think the problem is that all forms of the media uses hate to increase profits, I think the real problem is that most of us know this, and won't or can't do anything about it.
 

Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
1,514
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Information most of us assumed already.
I dont think the problem is that all forms of the media uses hate to increase profits, I think the real problem is that most of us know this, and won't or can't do anything about it.
what can we do about it?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
14,545
126
what can we do about it?
I honestly dont know.
I have been thinking about this stuff most of my life and it seems to me Americas number one problem is apathy.
Our number two problem is anger, which leads directly to a host of other issues.

Number one and number two together make for a bad combination. A whole country full of people who will never do shit mixed with people who will do almost anything.
On another thread here I saw there was a 30 year old who tried to kill someone important, and it wasnt that he wanted them dead, its that he wanted to bring attention to something that was stupid, but he took seriously.
We got lots of problems with no good solutions and that seriously bothers me.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,713
16,947
136
The company is up there with the tobacco industry or TEL makers in knowing exactly the scale of harm they are causing for profit but deciding to do it anyway. The worst thing is the difference between running the company responsibly or not is just between being extremely profitable and obscenely profitable. They could still make a fortune without destroying the people and societies their platform interacts with, they've simply decided that's not important.

Deleted FB a few years ago and I do not miss it at all.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,066
14,160
146
^^ agreed with above. And remember kids, when FB wants your state issue ID to verify your account, tell them to fuck off....worked for me to verify before deleting my account.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,142
1,160
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what can we do about it?
Stop using it. I did this mainly for my own stress levels, but the fact that I'm not contributing on the platforms (which I consider a combination of nuclear weapons and crack when it comes to society's health) is a nice bonus.

What's interesting is that when I deleted all my "friends" and disabled my account, I started noticing how often I was reaching for my phone to check in. This is not a healthy thing according to some studies I have read; it's a sign of anxiety. It's the same as checking your work email every five minutes on your day off when you are not on call or standby for anything.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,686
6,123
136
what can we do about it?
Stop allowing companies to buy all competition for one.

Eliminate 230 protection the second you "promote" something shared.

Eliminate split share classes that allow the founder to have all the voting power and all the benefits of selling off the majority of the shares.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,026
1,401
136
She is claiming that Facebooks algorithm is to blame but doesn't it just put items in your feed that are similar to what you have already been reading? Anyway, I found Facebooks response at the end of the story amusing.

Here is the full interview if anyone is interested in watching it.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
6,371
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Fakebook -- Just don't do it.



Be nice if that slogan were to spread far and wide, but hopefully Nike wouldn't get all wound up.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,142
1,160
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I haven't brought myself to watch it, but there's a long documentary on FB with interviews from former engineers. Basically their job was to make the thing addictive, and the engineers said they'd even fall for the algorithms despite having coded them! We are nothing but glorified plains apes after all. FB and it's alternate reality bubble to go along with similar "news" and personal youtube feeds, that's all feeding our animal need for safety and comfort. Why bother seeking facts when they have the nasty habit of blowing up beliefs...just find some that fit your beliefs. There's lot of reality for sale out there.

No different from the old snake oil salesmen in their horse-drawn wagons, except now the salesmen can spread their "wares" almost instantly across the internet from their basement studio.

In another way it's similar to all the flavor scientists being paid to find ways to get us hooked on shit food. We are simply not equipped physically or mentally to withstand it, not easily. The only way to win is not to play.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
13,020
4,668
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After seeing facebook pages of acquaintances of mine turn into conservative political misinformation spreaders supporting Trump including all the usual BS about covid, the constant lying and those memes picturing Trump's head on most every superhero in existence I figured it was time to bail when I replied with facts and truths that debunked their Brietbart talking points and were met with more lies and jaw dropping bullshit.

How odd it was that every one of those conspiracy choked pages belonged to deeply religious people of whom I thought couldn't be swayed from their "path of righteousness". lol
 

Leeea

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2020
1,514
1,899
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Stay off Fakebook.
Been doing that for 10 years, achieved nothing at all so far.

That's a bingo
Why would facebook care one iota about its users?

Its customers love it! Customers being the companies buying ads on facebook.

Stop using it. I did this mainly for my own stress levels, but the fact that I'm not contributing on the platforms (which I consider a combination of nuclear weapons and crack when it comes to society's health) is a nice bonus.

What's interesting is that when I deleted all my "friends" and disabled my account, I started noticing how often I was reaching for my phone to check in. This is not a healthy thing according to some studies I have read; it's a sign of anxiety. It's the same as checking your work email every five minutes on your day off when you are not on call or standby for anything.
Everything you are describing is exactly why Facebook's customers love Facebook. The health of Facebook's users is of no concern to Facebook's customers. Facebook's customers only care about how effective their advertising dollar is. Everything you describe makes those advertising dollars go farther.

Facebook's customers love it, and Facebook has a strong financial motivation to enslave/addict/abuse its users as much as it legally can. In our society Money Makes Right, and until we remove Facebook's financial motivation, it will never care what you, I, or any other user says or does.


Even if 1/2 of Facebook's users quit today, it would make no difference. The profit to be made off of abusing the remaining users exceeds the profit of being humane towards any users.

Stop allowing companies to buy all competition for one.

Eliminate 230 protection the second you "promote" something shared.

Eliminate split share classes that allow the founder to have all the voting power and all the benefits of selling off the majority of the shares.
I love all of these ideas. But I doubt they would have any effect on Facebook. Facebook has a strong financial motivation to abuse its customers, and sadly none of the above addresses that.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
5,705
6,026
136
Facebook is not the "chief cause" of polarization and hate. But Facebook is one of the "chief facilitators" of polarization and hate.

I deleted my Facebook years ago. My wife keeps hers active for the marketplace and that's it. My oldest daughter just deleted hers recently. My youngest still has hers, but the wife and I have educated our children on the dangers of social media extensively. It should be one of the main parts of parenting 101 in the 21st century
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,880
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Nah, use Facebook, but block all the ads and intentionally don't use it like they want (you can basically block the News Feed for instance). Upload shitloads of worthless videos (seriously, just record walls and other random shit). Cost Facebook money while providing them no outlet to make any off of you. Post nonsensical shit that deliberately fucks up any tracking and other shit that they sell so that it actively poisons efforts to utilize that for marketing and other crap.

If you really want to fuck things up, seek out the Russian honey pot groups and others that are looking to exploit people, then mimick them but better to outdo them, then out their sorry asses and the moronic right wingers getting duped by them. If you feel guilty, donate all the money you make from it (and you can make money from it) to charitable causes.

Oh, and something every guy should do, create a fake young woman's profile and see the types of messages you get. Doesn't even need to be a "hot" one and you don't even need to go out of your way to entice it either. I guarantee it'll be eye opening in ways you can't even begin to imagine. I can almost guarantee you'll catch someone you know sending incredibly fucked up messages that will make you realize you don't know jack shit about anyone. Basically every woman I've talked to has shown me the almost weekly (some get multiple ones daily) messages that will change how you see the world.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,686
6,123
136
I love all of these ideas. But I doubt they would have any effect on Facebook. Facebook has a strong financial motivation to abuse its customers, and sadly none of the above addresses that.
They all would. Instagram became toxic after FB bought them, and now there is no real alternative.

If companies were held liable for what they promoted, there'd either be no promotion or they'd be much more careful about promoting bullshit to get engagement. There have been studies that have shown the path algorithm have taken to radicalize people, via promotion.

I used to watch "first amendment audits" and then YT started pushing Q shit and other conspiracy BS on me.

The last one, Z owns all the voting rights at FB, so he doesn't have to listen to any one, and you see it every time they actually get a sane person on their board they leave within months.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,326
11,218
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After seeing facebook pages of acquaintances of mine turn into conservative political misinformation spreaders supporting Trump including all the usual BS about covid, the constant lying and those memes picturing Trump's head on most every superhero in existence I figured it was time to bail when I replied with facts and truths that debunked their Brietbart talking points and were met with more lies and jaw dropping bullshit.

How odd it was that every one of those conspiracy choked pages belonged to deeply religious people of whom I thought couldn't be swayed from their "path of righteousness". lol
The religious righties are the worst. Well, so are the confederate flag waving racists. Well so are the stop the steal fascist lunatics.

Oh hell, the vast majority of the right wing base are shit people.
 
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Jul 9, 2009
10,479
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I have never joined or had anything at all to do with Facebook. I avoid MS, Google, Apple etc. all i can with no or misinformation. They still use what i can't stop, but i do my best not to enable them.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
64,227
18,234
136
The only reasons I have a fb account at all is to follow three nerd groups and to find out when musicians are touring. Musicians are terrible about updating their own websites so fb has become the default place to track them. I don't even have my fb homepage (feed? whatever they call it) bookmarked but go straight into one of the nerd groups so all this steering I read about doesn't factor for me. Ad blocked, of course.
 

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