***F1 U.S Grand Prix*** Update: F1 summons Michelin teams for hearing

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Story

Statement by FIA:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams? lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances".

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally ? from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

Hmm, wonder what will happen...
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Sad episode for F1, for sure, but I want to see something done to prevent this in the future. For example, make it a rule that the 2nd set of tires cannot be identical to the 1st set, or something like that.
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Short version: Michelin couldn't certify that the tires they supplied their teams with (7 out of 10 teams) would make the race distance. In particular, the tires would not make it though Turn 13, which is the banked Turn One of IMS.
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
Spec tire. Leading to spec engines/computers. Leading to FIA mandated cars, which teams can rent on a per race basis.
 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
13,712
1
0
what is this "chicane" that they wanted on the track?

oh: "a movable barrier used in motor racing; sometimes place before a dangerous corner to reduce speed as cars pass in single file "

I wonder what this would have looked like...
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: RedRooster
Spec tire. Leading to spec engines/computers. Leading to FIA mandated cars, which teams can rent on a per race basis.

Hahhaha that would be very interesting...F-IROC?
 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,995
0
0
cliff notes?

seriously though what a friggin joke... i've been into F1 for as long as i remember, around 15 years now and i've NEVER seen anything this pathetic... not sure if michellin is totally to blame cause they put safety first but there was a lot everyone else could have done to prevent this fiasco

i heard they offered to race all cars and have all michelin cars not score any points, this way the other 6 guys wouldn't necessarily get free points and the crowd would still have had something to watch...
also, the 3 teams that did race could have very well forfeited and decided not to race in order to keep things fair.

what happened is inexcusable and totally stupid. argh. :|
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Bridgestone should jump all over this NOW.

Put out a commercial saying tires are the number 1 thing on your car for safety, evrything else needs them to work. Then show the letter from Michelin saying THEIR tires are unsafe and Bridgestone should go slower to help THEM, Michelin, out as their tires can't handle things like... turning. :p



 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,995
0
0
Originally posted by: acemcmac
what is this "chicane" that they wanted on the track?

during tests the night before michelin found out that the tyres wouldnt last for the entire race and were particularly hazardous for curve13 where ralf schumacher had a bad accident the day before. so they suggested building a chicane (2 consecutive not that wide turns, a zig-zaggy section if you will) to lower speeds coming into the curve to reduce the risk.

nobody liked the idea
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
Originally posted by: DingDingDao
Short version: Michelin couldn't certify that the tires they supplied their teams with (7 out of 10 teams) would make the race distance. In particular, the tires would not make it though Turn 13, which is the banked Turn One of IMS.

I'm surprised that Michelin a giant tire maker couldn't find another set of tires suitable for the race. But I guess withdrawing is better than having the cars lose traction in Turn 13 and fly off any which way.
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: franguinho
Originally posted by: acemcmac
what is this "chicane" that they wanted on the track?

during tests the night before michelin found out that the tyres wouldnt last for the entire race and were particularly hazardous for curve13 where ralf schumacher had a bad accident the day before. so they suggested building a chicane (2 consecutive not that wide turns, a zig-zaggy section if you will) to lower speeds coming into the curve to reduce the risk.

nobody liked the idea

Even if all 10 teams agreed on the chicane (which I doubt would happen), it would be extremely unfair to the Bridgestone teams.
 

JonnyStarks

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2003
1,682
0
0
The tires wouldn't last for the entire race? Don't they never last for the entire race, and that's why they change them during pitstops? I really don't understand this whole thing.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Okay, now compare this to NASCAR, where they managed to get more than 7 times the number of cars to race on sunday :)
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: DingDingDao
Short version: Michelin couldn't certify that the tires they supplied their teams with (7 out of 10 teams) would make the race distance. In particular, the tires would not make it though Turn 13, which is the banked Turn One of IMS.

I'm surprised that Michelin a giant tire maker couldn't find another set of tires suitable for the race. But I guess withdrawing is better than having the cars lose traction in Turn 13 and fly off any which way.

They did, and they asked FIA for permission to fly in replacement tires the night before the race. FIA denied their request, citing a rule which states that each team is only allowed two sets of tires per race weekend. Typically a team should have one tire that is high performance, and another that is less capable but more reliable. Michelin didn't do that--they supplied their teams with two identical sets of tires. I'm with the FIA on this one--you can't allow a team to violate a rule just because their car can't perform.
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
Funny how it was both Toyotas that crashed. No one else seemed to be having problems all weekend.
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
The tires wouldn't last for the entire race? Don't they never last for the entire race, and that's why they change them during pitstops? I really don't understand this whole thing.

No, there was a new rule instituted this year (stupid rule IMO) that each team had to use one set of tires for qualifying and race. No tire changes in the race, unless a tire fails (or is about to fail, as judged by a marshall), or change in weather (you can switch from dry to rain tires, but if you switch back, it has to be to the original set, not a new set of dry tires).
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Okay, now compare this to NASCAR, where they managed to get more than 14 times the number of cars to race on sunday :)

Thanks for the thread-crap :p

Carbureted 4-speed left-turn-only pieces of crap... :p
I kid, I kid.
 

Originally posted by: JonnyStarks
The tires wouldn't last for the entire race? Don't they never last for the entire race, and that's why they change them during pitstops? I really don't understand this whole thing.

from my limited understanding, it seems like they wouldnt even last a lap. Correct me if im wrong however.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: DingDingDao
Short version: Michelin couldn't certify that the tires they supplied their teams with (7 out of 10 teams) would make the race distance. In particular, the tires would not make it though Turn 13, which is the banked Turn One of IMS.

It was 14 out of 20 teams.
 

DingDingDao

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
3,044
0
71
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Originally posted by: DingDingDao
Short version: Michelin couldn't certify that the tires they supplied their teams with (7 out of 10 teams) would make the race distance. In particular, the tires would not make it though Turn 13, which is the banked Turn One of IMS.

It was 14 out of 20 teams.

No, it was 14 out of 20 cars, 7 out of 10 teams (each team fields two cars).

McLaren-Mercedes
Toyota
Renault
BAR Honda
RBR
Williams BMW
Sauber
 

DaFinn

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2002
4,725
0
0
1st. The sidewall of the michelin tires could not handle the pressure of curve 13. Ralf Schumacher had an accident because his tire blew...
2nd. Michelin teams test, and conclude that current set of tires will not last through the race because of curve 13.
3rd. Michelin says it could fly another set for all teams, but could not quarantee that either as it hadn't been tested. FIA says NO!!!
4th. Michelin requests that a chicane be placed in curve 13 to reduce speed, so their tires would make it. FIA says NO!!!
5th. Michelin asks teams using their tires to drive slower in curve 13. Teams say NO!!!

Teams could change tires during the race, but this is not allowed in the rules= there would be penalty. Also it would anyway put the Michelin teams in uneven position.

6th. Michelin tells the teams, that it cannot quarantee drivers safety and suggest they would not drive. All Michelin teams agree, and drive to the pit after warmup.

Theres been too much confusion around this, just thought to clear it up a bit... As to who is at fault I will not comment.
 

JonnyStarks

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2003
1,682
0
0
Originally posted by: DingDingDao


No, there was a new rule instituted this year (stupid rule IMO) that each team had to use one set of tires for qualifying and race. No tire changes in the race, unless a tire fails (or is about to fail, as judged by a marshall), or change in weather (you can switch from dry to rain tires, but if you switch back, it has to be to the original set, not a new set of dry tires).

Ohhh... sorry for the newbness, the only time I ever catch any kind of racing is when I watch Sportscentre.
Isn't it necessary to change tires during the race though? I mean isn't there a huge amount of wear on them from the heat and the high speeds? I would think that this would make all the races more dangerous...:confused:
 

fenrir

Senior member
Apr 6, 2001
341
30
91
Originally posted by: DaFinn
Theres been too much confusion around this, just thought to clear it up a bit... As to who is at fault I will not comment.

IMHO Michelin and the teams that pulled out are to blame. The tire is part of the car and if your chosen tire manufacturer fails to supply you with a suitable tire, then tough luck. The teams chose the tires they use. I wonder if Bridgestone was willing to supply all the teams with tires? ;)

Michelin are also a bunch of idiots. It is hard to believe they didn't supply a tested tire to those teams. Then they expected the FIA to make exceptions to the rules because they screwed up and their teams needed help.

If you have a poorly handling car, then you go through the corners slower. That is what the teams with Michelins should have done. It wouldn't have even been an issue if they had brought the second and more reliable tire they should have had. I completely agree with the FIA's decisions on how to handle it.

Matt