F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.... $300 billion down the drain

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: 1jzpowr
It's the JOINT Strike Fighter, is that $300 billion the cost that the US alone sank into it, or the total cost of the program shared by all members? I know the US is the largest financer, it just seems a bit high of a share for the US to pay when many countries are involved in it and would benifit from it.

That includes the actual cost of 2400 planes being manufactured. It isn't just development cost.

While the United States is the primary customer and financial backer, the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway and Denmark have agreed to contribute US$4.375 billion toward the development costs of the program.Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion (underwritten largely by the United States), while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion. The nine major partner nations plan to acquire over 3,100 F-35s through 2035, making the F-35 one of the most numerous jet fighters.
Participant nations:
Primary customer: USA Level 1 partner: UK Level 2 partner: The Netherlands and Italy Level 3 partner: Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway and Denmark Security Cooperative Participants (SCP): Israel and Singapore

There are three levels of international participation. The levels generally reflect the financial stake in the program, the amount of technology transfer and subcontracts open for bid by national companies, and the order in which countries can obtain production aircraft. The United Kingdom is the sole "Level 1" partner, contributing US$2.5 billion, about 10% of the development costs under the 1995 Memorandum of Understanding that brought the UK into the project. Level 2 partners are Italy, which is contributing US$1 billion; and the Netherlands, US$800 million. Level 3 partners are Canada, US$475 million; Turkey, US$195 million; Australia, US$144 million; Norway, US$122 million and Denmark, US$110 million. Israel and Singapore have joined as Security Cooperative Participants (SCP).

 

[1jzpowr]

Thanks for clarifying that, had no idea we were set to order so many of them. 2,400 F-35's through 2035 seems like overkill to me; with the F-22 and the current aircraft we have that are better than most other countries future aircraft (China, NK, and other future adversaries), no one would be able to compete with our airforce even if we only ordered 500. I know the price per aircraft goes up the fewer you buy, but 2,400?

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: 1jzpowr
Thanks for clarifying that, had no idea we were set to order so many of them. 2,400 F-35's through 2035 seems like overkill to me; with the F-22 and the current aircraft we have that are better than most other countries future aircraft (China, NK, and other future adversaries), no one would be able to compete with our airforce even if we only ordered 500. I know the price per aircraft goes up the fewer you buy, but 2,400?

F-35 Wiki

It will be replacing thousands of F-16s and F-18s and other aircraft

 

[tk149]

There are very strict regulations regarding the sharing of data with non-U.S. Persons (i.e. USML, CCL).

Wen Ho Lee was cleared of all charges and received an apology from the judge and $1.6 million from the feds in compensation.

 

[TruePaige]

OP is full of fail.

First off, the joint strike fighter project already has lots of countries that know most of the specifications of the plane. It's not a -huge- secret.

Secondly, the proprietary pieces of U.S. technology not released to any other countries are the source code to the weapons control systems, which were NOT breached.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: tk149
There are very strict regulations regarding the sharing of data with non-U.S. Persons (i.e. USML, CCL).

Wen Ho Lee was cleared of all charges and received an apology from the judge and $1.6 million from the feds in compensation.

B.S. Wen Ho Lee pled guilty to improper handling of restricted data. He received $1.6 million to settle a civil suit against the federal govt and media companies because they leaked his name before any charges were filed.

In my estimation this guy was guilty as hell, and should have been executed, but for the incompetent investigation and prosecution.

Text


The examination of Lee's computer determined that he had taken classified work documents, deleted the security classification headers, and then transferred these files from a system used for processing classified data onto another protected but unclassified network. After the FBI discovered Lee's transfer, they revoked his badge access and clearance, including his ability to access the data from the unclassified but secure network. Lee then requested from a colleague in another part of Los Alamos that he be allowed to use his computer, at which time he transferred the data to a third unclassified computer network. FBI analysts later examined the unclassified computer and noted that the files that Lee had transferred had been accessed from a computer at the Student Union of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) on over forty occasions. Because of the vast number of users who used the computers at the UCLA Student Union and the lack of logs of users, the FBI was unable to determine which entity gained access to the Los Alamos data.

 

[wwswimming]

there's program data that allows another country to make a JSF, and there's program data
that allows another country to interfere with the functioning of a JSF. (electronic counter-
measures, etc.)

i wonder what categories of data were stolen for which parts of the plane.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: rudder
Terabytes of data downloaded by unknown hackers.

So basically although this is a very maneuverable fighter... all electronic systems are worthless because now adversaries know how to defend against it.

Another reason why I am against H1B visas. I am sure somehwere in the design chain with all the defense contractors there could be the possibility of a breach. If it were me running the show and for that much money, I would have a completely physically isolated network anyway.

Thank you for showing your ignorant and blind fear of H1B visa. If you actually get out of your mom's basement, you'd know that all those defense contract require bunch of clearance that H1B would never qualify.

 

[palehorse]

Supply-chain security and Research Technology Protection (RTP) are two of the most important aspects of counter-intelligence -- especially in the "virtual" 21st century. This story doesn't surprise me in the least... after all, the rights and freedoms that make this country so great are the same rights and freedoms that make us so vulnerable.

 

[manowar821]

Sorry, I was just bored one night and decided to download some fun technical reading. I'll give it back.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: tk149
There are very strict regulations regarding the sharing of data with non-U.S. Persons (i.e. USML, CCL).

Wen Ho Lee was cleared of all charges and received an apology from the judge and $1.6 million from the feds in compensation.

B.S. Wen Ho Lee pled guilty to improper handling of restricted data. He received $1.6 million to settle a civil suit against the federal govt and media companies because they leaked his name before any charges were filed.

In my estimation this guy was guilty as hell, and should have been executed, but for the incompetent investigation and prosecution.

Text


The examination of Lee's computer determined that he had taken classified work documents, deleted the security classification headers, and then transferred these files from a system used for processing classified data onto another protected but unclassified network. After the FBI discovered Lee's transfer, they revoked his badge access and clearance, including his ability to access the data from the unclassified but secure network. Lee then requested from a colleague in another part of Los Alamos that he be allowed to use his computer, at which time he transferred the data to a third unclassified computer network. FBI analysts later examined the unclassified computer and noted that the files that Lee had transferred had been accessed from a computer at the Student Union of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) on over forty occasions. Because of the vast number of users who used the computers at the UCLA Student Union and the lack of logs of users, the FBI was unable to determine which entity gained access to the Los Alamos data.

Initially, government attorneys said Lee had stolen the "crown jewels" of U.S. nuclear weaponry science and intended to turn them over to a foreign power. But the government was eventually forced to acknowledge that the material was marked "restricted" rather than classified "top secret" and that "99 percent" of the material was already available to the public.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Good news

Not as bad as it was originally thought

Lockheed and DoD say no classified data was stolen