Exxon makes record profit

[Dari]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Did you read the entire OP? My main point was McCain's infatuation of giving massive tax cuts to companies like Exxon, in the fact of their massive profits. At the very least they don't need more tax breaks.

Yes I read the OP, that's why I asked you "What would you consider an acceptable profit margin for a public corporation?". Surely you're aware that stating raw numbers is completely misleading. That's like me starting a thread saying "Bill Gates paid $1 bn in taxes while John Doe only paid $10k in taxes, Bill Gates is getting screwed!". Raw numbers like you present in the OP are meaningless.

You're also being misleading about the tax breaks, you know that the tax breaks are for all companies, not targeted at oil companies. Anyways, why don't you just answer the question?

Obviously I don't believe in a fucking limit. But I don't see a need to just give everybody a god-damn tax break when the American economy is so fucking off-balance.

People are living longer and demand better healthcare. We need to fix that right now. McCain's stupid health credit won't solve the problem and Bush's medicare bill made things worse. Worse, cutting taxes (especially for companies like Exxon) will fuck up the budget and make the deficit much worse.

Isn't the best time to cut taxes in a down economy? Wouldn't this be the best time to cut the taxes of ALL corporations, so maybe they won't be cutting as many people?

Anyways, I guess you've just proven that this whole thread is just one giant knee-jerk brought about by seeing big numbers, and not really thinking about the actual profit margin of the company in question.

The best time to cut is during a recession. But that is also the best time to increase government spending. The best time to increase taxes and decrease gov't spending is during an expansion but I never saw you advocating that. Hence, don't try to bullshit me with your thoughts on economics. Like I've said many times before, it is time we concentrate on healthcare. We need to re-balance the economy.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Dari
First of all large businesses don't hire armies of tax lawyers and accountants so that they can pay the nominal tax rate.

Second of all, small businesses aren't going anywhere.

Third, the vast majority of the American economy is service based. Those that could go to third-world sweatshops already have. Our main competitor for jobs may be mexico and canada. If the government can fix healthcare cost so that Americans aren't paying retail price for medicine and hospital costs, the long-term savings is simply incalculable.

A 3% increase in taxes won't break the bank for any company. This is especially true considering Bush lowered the tax rate 3% and a lot of companies still went overseas. Hence, they certainly don't need any new excuses.

Finally, companies will always past costs towards the customers but I rather pay more knowing my money is going towards the betterment of the entire society rather than live in a country that treats its people like they do in China.

I still don't think you get it yet. Let me offer some simple truth on a smaller scale.

How do states bring business big or small to their state?

Lower taxes and tax based incentives. Essentially making it less expensive over a competing state and this is year over year operational expense.

You're claiming the same is not true on a larger scale (country vs. country) given the HUGE corporate taxes the US imposes?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: spidey07

You're claiming the same is not true on a larger scale (country vs. country) given the HUGE corporate taxes the US imposes?

HUGE "rates"....2nd lowest "burden" in the industrialized world (per CNBC).

 

[alien42]

nm

 

[DrPizza]

Profit margin... :roll:

I'll simplify this so anyone can understand it. Put yourself in the roll of a paperboy. The newspaper costs $1, and you make 10% profit on it for delivering it.

Over the course of a couple months, the news company doubles the cost of the newspaper to $2. You sell just as many papers, you make zero extra investment, you have zero extra expenses other than the price of your materials doubling. But you get away with doubling your profit per paper, because someone will apologize for you saying "look at their profit margins."

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Dari
First of all large businesses don't hire armies of tax lawyers and accountants so that they can pay the nominal tax rate.

Second of all, small businesses aren't going anywhere.

Third, the vast majority of the American economy is service based. Those that could go to third-world sweatshops already have. Our main competitor for jobs may be mexico and canada. If the government can fix healthcare cost so that Americans aren't paying retail price for medicine and hospital costs, the long-term savings is simply incalculable.

A 3% increase in taxes won't break the bank for any company. This is especially true considering Bush lowered the tax rate 3% and a lot of companies still went overseas. Hence, they certainly don't need any new excuses.

Finally, companies will always past costs towards the customers but I rather pay more knowing my money is going towards the betterment of the entire society rather than live in a country that treats its people like they do in China.

I still don't think you get it yet. Let me offer some simple truth on a smaller scale.

How do states bring business big or small to their state?

Lower taxes and tax based incentives. Essentially making it less expensive over a competing state and this is year over year operational expense.

You're claiming the same is not true on a larger scale (country vs. country) given the HUGE corporate taxes the US imposes?

:laugh: Companies don't go country-shopping over taxes unless all other factors are (similarily) equal. You don't even understand what you're talking about.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Dari
First of all large businesses don't hire armies of tax lawyers and accountants so that they can pay the nominal tax rate.

Second of all, small businesses aren't going anywhere.

Third, the vast majority of the American economy is service based. Those that could go to third-world sweatshops already have. Our main competitor for jobs may be mexico and canada. If the government can fix healthcare cost so that Americans aren't paying retail price for medicine and hospital costs, the long-term savings is simply incalculable.

A 3% increase in taxes won't break the bank for any company. This is especially true considering Bush lowered the tax rate 3% and a lot of companies still went overseas. Hence, they certainly don't need any new excuses.

Finally, companies will always past costs towards the customers but I rather pay more knowing my money is going towards the betterment of the entire society rather than live in a country that treats its people like they do in China.

I still don't think you get it yet. Let me offer some simple truth on a smaller scale.

How do states bring business big or small to their state?

Lower taxes and tax based incentives. Essentially making it less expensive over a competing state and this is year over year operational expense.

You're claiming the same is not true on a larger scale (country vs. country) given the HUGE corporate taxes the US imposes?

:laugh: Companies don't go country-shopping over taxes unless all other factors are (similarily) equal. You don't even understand what you're talking about.

Are labor costs here equal to those in China or India? What about environmental restrictions and the associated costs? Will they get subsidies here in the US like they might in the EU or Japan?

With so many other factors already against the US why add another with an increased tax burden?

 

[Alistar7]

Dari, what will American businesses do when their taxes are increased? How will that affect their employees and those that purchase their goods/services?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Profit margin... :roll:

I'll simplify this so anyone can understand it. Put yourself in the roll of a paperboy. The newspaper costs $1, and you make 10% profit on it for delivering it.

Over the course of a couple months, the news company doubles the cost of the newspaper to $2. You sell just as many papers, you make zero extra investment, you have zero extra expenses other than the price of your materials doubling. But you get away with doubling your profit per paper, because someone will apologize for you saying "look at their profit margins."

Horrible analogy. It's more like The paperboy merges his operations with 9 other paperboys, then merges with 10 shoeshine boys, all with the same profit margin and increases his "profit" by 20x and the milk delivery boys complaining that the paperboy is making obscene profits.

Would you be happier if ExxonMobil broke back up into Exxon and Mobil and no longer be the largest corporation in the world?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

A reason to base your operations elsewhere, raise prices, cut jobs, benefits, etc....

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Dari, what will American businesses do when their taxes are increased? How will that affect their employees and those that purchase their goods/services?

What will they do? Pass it on to the consumer like they've always done. Look, a business's job is to look after short-term profit and long-term viability. Government should stop trying to micro-manage the economy, worrying about small recessions or expansions. Government's primary concern is to lay the foundation for a sound and stable society where everyone can prosper. The notion that we should cut taxes forever is seriously flawed. We need to fix out healthcare system. Most of the developed world has already taken care of it and they are doing well. We cannot be like China where a nation health service is non-existant and people save money so they can pay retail prices for healthcare and medicine. We cannot turn into that. Government needs to focus on the future.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Dari, what will American businesses do when their taxes are increased? How will that affect their employees and those that purchase their goods/services?

What will they do? Pass it on to the consumer like they've always done. Look, a business's job is to look after short-term profit and long-term viability. Government should stop trying to micro-manage the economy, worrying about small recessions or expansions. Government's primary concern is to lay the foundation for a sound and stable society where everyone can prosper. The notion that we should cut taxes forever is seriously flawed. We need to fix out healthcare system. Most of the developed world has already taken care of it and they are doing well. We cannot be like China where a nation health service is non-existant and people save money so they can pay retail prices for healthcare and medicine. We cannot turn into that. Government needs to focus on the future.

So Obama rasing taxes on business will INCREASE the burden on the middle class, is that part of the "relief" he is promising? Of course he also promised to accept public financing. How many times does he have to break his word before you ponder his integrity?

Who said we can cut taxes forever? Everyone realizes they are needed to finance the government. I object to the size, scope, & fiscal irresponsibility of our government. Why can't businesses AND citizens both get a marginal cut with funding created by the elimination of non-essential spending? Part of the problem is our debt load and our continued deficit spending, another trillion under Obama helps in what way?

The details of how he will implement, let alone pay for, his health care plan are skethcy at best and will not fix the problem. We will have a larger government with more regulation and oversight of the industry.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Dari, what will American businesses do when their taxes are increased? How will that affect their employees and those that purchase their goods/services?

What will they do? Pass it on to the consumer like they've always done. Look, a business's job is to look after short-term profit and long-term viability. Government should stop trying to micro-manage the economy, worrying about small recessions or expansions. Government's primary concern is to lay the foundation for a sound and stable society where everyone can prosper. The notion that we should cut taxes forever is seriously flawed. We need to fix out healthcare system. Most of the developed world has already taken care of it and they are doing well. We cannot be like China where a nation health service is non-existant and people save money so they can pay retail prices for healthcare and medicine. We cannot turn into that. Government needs to focus on the future.

So Obama rasing taxes on business will INCREASE the burden on the middle class, is that part of the "relief" he is promising? Of course he also promised to accept public financing. How many times does he have to break his word before you ponder his integrity?

Who said we can cut taxes forever? Everyone realizes they are needed to finance the government. I object to the size, scope, & fiscal irresponsibility of our government. Why can't businesses AND citizens both get a marginal cut with funding created by the elimination of non-essential spending? Part of the problem is our debt load and our continued deficit spending, another trillion under Obama helps in what way?

The details of how he will implement, let alone pay for, his health care plan are skethcy at best and will not fix the problem. We will have a larger government with more regulation and oversight of the industry.

Outside of technology-related products, what products have gone down in price? Truth is businesses will always increase price unless they have heavy competition.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Did you read the entire OP? My main point was McCain's infatuation of giving massive tax cuts to companies like Exxon, in the fact of their massive profits. At the very least they don't need more tax breaks.

Yes I read the OP, that's why I asked you "What would you consider an acceptable profit margin for a public corporation?". Surely you're aware that stating raw numbers is completely misleading. That's like me starting a thread saying "Bill Gates paid $1 bn in taxes while John Doe only paid $10k in taxes, Bill Gates is getting screwed!". Raw numbers like you present in the OP are meaningless.

You're also being misleading about the tax breaks, you know that the tax breaks are for all companies, not targeted at oil companies. Anyways, why don't you just answer the question?

Obviously I don't believe in a fucking limit. But I don't see a need to just give everybody a god-damn tax break when the American economy is so fucking off-balance.

People are living longer and demand better healthcare. We need to fix that right now. McCain's stupid health credit won't solve the problem and Bush's medicare bill made things worse. Worse, cutting taxes (especially for companies like Exxon) will fuck up the budget and make the deficit much worse.

What's off balance? Why should people get better healthcare today than was available 8 years ago?

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Did you read the entire OP? My main point was McCain's infatuation of giving massive tax cuts to companies like Exxon, in the fact of their massive profits. At the very least they don't need more tax breaks.

Yes I read the OP, that's why I asked you "What would you consider an acceptable profit margin for a public corporation?". Surely you're aware that stating raw numbers is completely misleading. That's like me starting a thread saying "Bill Gates paid $1 bn in taxes while John Doe only paid $10k in taxes, Bill Gates is getting screwed!". Raw numbers like you present in the OP are meaningless.

You're also being misleading about the tax breaks, you know that the tax breaks are for all companies, not targeted at oil companies. Anyways, why don't you just answer the question?

Obviously I don't believe in a fucking limit. But I don't see a need to just give everybody a god-damn tax break when the American economy is so fucking off-balance.

People are living longer and demand better healthcare. We need to fix that right now. McCain's stupid health credit won't solve the problem and Bush's medicare bill made things worse. Worse, cutting taxes (especially for companies like Exxon) will fuck up the budget and make the deficit much worse.

What's off balance? Why should people get better healthcare today than was available 8 years ago?

you don't believe in progress?

not to mention better and more efficient healthcare system + education = lower healthcare costs

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

You know....that tax that Sarah Palin placed on the oil companies in Alaska so that she and the state legislature could give back over $1,200 to every man, woman and child in Alaska. About a 40% tax.....

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

You know....that tax that Sarah Palin placed on the oil companies in Alaska so that she and the state legislature could give back over $1,200 to every man, woman and child in Alaska. About a 40% tax.....

it was increased to $3269 this year due to high fuel prices (which no longer exist) which equals $22,883 for the Palin family.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Did you read the entire OP? My main point was McCain's infatuation of giving massive tax cuts to companies like Exxon, in the fact of their massive profits. At the very least they don't need more tax breaks.

Yes I read the OP, that's why I asked you "What would you consider an acceptable profit margin for a public corporation?". Surely you're aware that stating raw numbers is completely misleading. That's like me starting a thread saying "Bill Gates paid $1 bn in taxes while John Doe only paid $10k in taxes, Bill Gates is getting screwed!". Raw numbers like you present in the OP are meaningless.

You're also being misleading about the tax breaks, you know that the tax breaks are for all companies, not targeted at oil companies. Anyways, why don't you just answer the question?

Obviously I don't believe in a fucking limit. But I don't see a need to just give everybody a god-damn tax break when the American economy is so fucking off-balance.

People are living longer and demand better healthcare. We need to fix that right now. McCain's stupid health credit won't solve the problem and Bush's medicare bill made things worse. Worse, cutting taxes (especially for companies like Exxon) will fuck up the budget and make the deficit much worse.

What's off balance? Why should people get better healthcare today than was available 8 years ago?

you don't believe in progress?

not to mention better and more efficient healthcare system + education = lower healthcare costs

When have healthcare costs ever gone down in any developing country?

You know, lefties always talk about tax rates in the 90s and how great it was....they never talk about 90s health care spending and health care policy.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: alien42

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Dari

Did you read the entire OP? My main point was McCain's infatuation of giving massive tax cuts to companies like Exxon, in the fact of their massive profits. At the very least they don't need more tax breaks.

Yes I read the OP, that's why I asked you "What would you consider an acceptable profit margin for a public corporation?". Surely you're aware that stating raw numbers is completely misleading. That's like me starting a thread saying "Bill Gates paid $1 bn in taxes while John Doe only paid $10k in taxes, Bill Gates is getting screwed!". Raw numbers like you present in the OP are meaningless.

You're also being misleading about the tax breaks, you know that the tax breaks are for all companies, not targeted at oil companies. Anyways, why don't you just answer the question?

Obviously I don't believe in a fucking limit. But I don't see a need to just give everybody a god-damn tax break when the American economy is so fucking off-balance.

People are living longer and demand better healthcare. We need to fix that right now. McCain's stupid health credit won't solve the problem and Bush's medicare bill made things worse. Worse, cutting taxes (especially for companies like Exxon) will fuck up the budget and make the deficit much worse.

What's off balance? Why should people get better healthcare today than was available 8 years ago?

you don't believe in progress?

not to mention better and more efficient healthcare system + education = lower healthcare costs

When have healthcare costs ever gone down in any developing country?

You know, lefties always talk about tax rates in the 90s and how great it was....they never talk about 90s health care spending and health care policy.

Economies of scale.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

You know....that tax that Sarah Palin placed on the oil companies in Alaska so that she and the state legislature could give back over $1,200 to every man, woman and child in Alaska. About a 40% tax.....

It's a bit different when the oil is produced in your backyard.....didn't Idiot Carter try something like that a while back?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: winnar111
When have healthcare costs ever gone down in any developing country?

You know, lefties always talk about tax rates in the 90s and how great it was....they never talk about 90s health care spending and health care policy.

Economies of scale.

What about it?

 

[Insomniator]

Why are health care and education considered progress?

If that is true and the goal is to have everyone have great health care and great education either they have to become free or OTHER people have to pay for it.

A rich person paying for some poor person's health care is progress how?

This isn't fantasy world...

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: JD50
OP, what was their profit margin and what is an acceptable profit margin to you?

How about one that is not tremendously based on speculation, preferably has nothing to do with corporate welfare, and is completely absent of any kind of influence on the suppressing of alternative technologies and sources of fuel/energy?

Why is that too much to ask?

They put billions INTO the US treasury. Where's the welfare?

Of course they paid record taxes, they made record profits...What of it?

This in no way means they deserve a tax break. They are reaping the benefits of being American alot more than the average Joe... They should pay more.

They are paying more......did you pay $30b in taxes last year?

WTF is a 'windfall' profits tax?

You know....that tax that Sarah Palin placed on the oil companies in Alaska so that she and the state legislature could give back over $1,200 to every man, woman and child in Alaska. About a 40% tax.....

It's a bit different when the oil is produced in your backyard.....didn't Idiot Carter try something like that a while back?

Texas pumps out more crude oil than Alaska, and there are plenty of other states that have oil, natural gas and coal. so what is the difference? to make it even worse, under Sarah Palin, the 'Alaska Permanent Fund' doubled this year due to high fuel prices, which no longer exist.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: winnar111
When have healthcare costs ever gone down in any developing country?

You know, lefties always talk about tax rates in the 90s and how great it was....they never talk about 90s health care spending and health care policy.

Economies of scale.

What about it?

Did you even listen to the debates? Obama clearly said that, with a huge base, the government can ask for lower prices. Ironically, your hero George Bush put it into law that Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs were not allowed to ask for lower prices. I can see that fucking law being taken down.