Is this now an ATi fansite or a tech site? I understand the mods have every right to their personal experiences and viewpoints- but clearly defining a bias while threatening moderative actions? This would be text book definition of how NOT to moderate unless you are trying to become an ATi fan site.
Extreme levels of bias AT moderator policy now?
- Thread starter BenSkywalker
- Start date
Is this now an ATi fansite or a tech site? I understand the mods have every right to their personal experiences and viewpoints- but clearly defining a bias while threatening moderative actions? This would be text book definition of how NOT to moderate unless you are trying to become an ATi fan site.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Ben, I'll chime in on this as I don't follow video cards at all (I'm not a gamer.) (edit: in other words, I'm neither an ATI nor an NVidia fan)
It's the official thread on the 4000 series of cards. I took a glance at the thread and what I saw was a thread that was becoming derailed by a discussion of driver issues from the past which may or may not apply to the 4000 series of cards.
Enlighten me, a video card noob, on what NVidia Vista drivers have to do with an ATI 4000 series of video cards?
The one thing that I *am* aware of is that there are fan boys on both sides of the aisle in that forum. However, before your anti-ATI drivers post, there were quite a few posts whining about NVidia's lack of support for games older than 6 months. The only bias I can see is yours: ignoring that the moderator was also referring to the discussion of NVidia driver issues while thinking that it only applied to your criticism of ATI driver issues.
It's the official thread on the 4000 series of cards. I took a glance at the thread and what I saw was a thread that was becoming derailed by a discussion of driver issues from the past which may or may not apply to the 4000 series of cards.
Enlighten me, a video card noob, on what NVidia Vista drivers have to do with an ATI 4000 series of video cards?
The one thing that I *am* aware of is that there are fan boys on both sides of the aisle in that forum. However, before your anti-ATI drivers post, there were quite a few posts whining about NVidia's lack of support for games older than 6 months. The only bias I can see is yours: ignoring that the moderator was also referring to the discussion of NVidia driver issues while thinking that it only applied to your criticism of ATI driver issues.
Ask the moderator that started the discussion.
He flames nV and threatens to take action if the conversation continues. I can see that this is the type of behaviour endorsed here now, guess it's time to find a new site. Your mods start the conversation- anyone says anything cross about ATi and they threaten to lay the heavy hand with them getting the last slam in on nV of course. You know what, I am biased and don't like to keep my mouth shut which is precisely why I would make a terrible moderator, sadly I guess that is the way this site wants to run.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Look, I couldn't care less if either video card manufacturer fell off the side of the earth. I don't have a video card in my computer, don't need one, don't want one (I use the on board graphics on the motherboard.) I'm as neutral as they come on the video card topic.
BOTH sides were flamed about drivers - nVidia AND ATI before the moderator said anything. Again, I see absolutely no reason for you to believe that the moderators comments were in response to you and nVidia fan boys alone, rather than to the general "keep the discussion on topic." You're right - if you can't realize that the moderators job is to keep the discussion on topic, you wouldn't make a good moderator.
Now, I'm not also ignoring that it was someone here who is a moderator was involved in getting the topic derailed. As moderators, we're allowed to post just like regular members. Note though, the moderator who actually moderated the thread was NOT the moderator who was posting video card issues. And, you should also note that after he posted the comment you posted in the OP of this thread, it was lopri the forum member (not the moderator - we don't moderate threads we are involved in) who apologized for derailing the thread.
In other words, it was the ATI fan who first realized that n7 was talking about them, and apologized for derailing the thread at the same time that you started complaining that nVidia fans were being biased against. In other words, the thread was moderated to keep ATi fans from complaining about nVidia drivers and you interpretted it as a bias toward ATi? Not only that, but the ATi fan apologized, and you chose a different path - complain??
Furthermore, you're over-reacting if you think
Allow me to use a P&N analogy to your logic:
"This thread is an official thread about Obama's coolness"
"Obama is a cool guy."
Obamafan: "Hilary sucks."
Obamafan2: "Hilary sucks."
Obama fan3: "Hilary sucks."
Hilary fan: "Obama sucks."
Moderator: "Yes, I'm well aware that Hilary sucks. Stop talking about the suckage, you're derailing the topic. This is a thread about Obama"
Obamafan: "Sorrrrryyy."
Hilary fan: Wahhh! You're biased!
BOTH sides were flamed about drivers - nVidia AND ATI before the moderator said anything. Again, I see absolutely no reason for you to believe that the moderators comments were in response to you and nVidia fan boys alone, rather than to the general "keep the discussion on topic." You're right - if you can't realize that the moderators job is to keep the discussion on topic, you wouldn't make a good moderator.
Now, I'm not also ignoring that it was someone here who is a moderator was involved in getting the topic derailed. As moderators, we're allowed to post just like regular members. Note though, the moderator who actually moderated the thread was NOT the moderator who was posting video card issues. And, you should also note that after he posted the comment you posted in the OP of this thread, it was lopri the forum member (not the moderator - we don't moderate threads we are involved in) who apologized for derailing the thread.
In other words, it was the ATI fan who first realized that n7 was talking about them, and apologized for derailing the thread at the same time that you started complaining that nVidia fans were being biased against. In other words, the thread was moderated to keep ATi fans from complaining about nVidia drivers and you interpretted it as a bias toward ATi? Not only that, but the ATi fan apologized, and you chose a different path - complain??
Furthermore, you're over-reacting if you think
is a moderator threatening to "lay a heavy hand."I don't want to have to start cleaning posts out of here to keep this thread on topic, so i'm thanking all you guys in advance for keeping that in mind for future posts in this thread
Allow me to use a P&N analogy to your logic:
"This thread is an official thread about Obama's coolness"
"Obama is a cool guy."
Obamafan: "Hilary sucks."
Obamafan2: "Hilary sucks."
Obama fan3: "Hilary sucks."
Hilary fan: "Obama sucks."
Moderator: "Yes, I'm well aware that Hilary sucks. Stop talking about the suckage, you're derailing the topic. This is a thread about Obama"
Obamafan: "Sorrrrryyy."
Hilary fan: Wahhh! You're biased!
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
Hi Ben,
I've read quite a bit of the thread, not the whole thing. But lopri and brianW1995 both admit to have started the off topic complaints about nV drivers, and I see their posts where they did that.
It doesn't seem to me that n7 is at all flamming nV drivers, rather looks to me like he's trying to stop that off topic line of discussion and get the thread back on track.
Maybe you can re-read his post again? I'm at a loss to see how you draw the conclusion you do.
Fern
Edit: These are the posts started by lopri and bryanW1995 getting OT on nV drivers:
As was mentioned, this was a thread about ATi. A moderator steps in, asserts his own viewpoint then decides noone else can rebut his comments as he is a moderator. THAT is the issue.
You are correct. Two moderators stepped in to flame nV's drivers in a thread about ATi- and then say it isn't allowed. It is very difficult for me to comprehend how that can not be viewed as a rather severe conflict of interest. The issue is not their stance, nor that they decided to voice it being a moderator. Wouldn't even been that bad that they decided to do it while thread crapping, they did it while thread crapping and in the same post telling people it isn't allowed. If you were to enter into a discussion about SLRs and post 'Though I am all too aware of the deficiencies of the Canon offering atm- this is a thread about Sony's SLRs so if anyone says anything else about it I will need to clean out posts'- would you not expect to have that questioned? They thread crapped and threatened to moderate for the very actions they themselves were partaking in.
I'm not a fan of either company, I am biased is what I said(I've been running ATi in my main rigs most of the last 5 or so years). I made a comment about ATi as it was a thread about ATi. This had nothing to do with assuming his comments were directed towards me in any way- that has nothing at all to do with it. It has to do with a mod thread crapping and telling everyone they better not do what I just did. I think pretty much the only thing in the driver issue I mentioned about nV was-
This isn't about his post being directed towards anyone at all- this is about a moderator stating his personal slander and then telling people they are not allowed to refute it. I honestly don't know why I am bothering trying to explain this, if you can not see the issue on its' face for what it is I doubt anything I can say is going to facilitate any enlightenment.
I just find it hillarious that first we get accused of being biased towards nVidia for letting Rollo come back, and now we are biased towards ATI. Sigh, people will find fault in everything given enough time...
Your moderators actions reflect on you, your members' don't.
So are you stating that by AT policy moderators are allowed to thread crap, post their biased perspective and threaten moderative action if anyone refutes them? That is precisely what happened here.
Are you then claiming that the moderators did not in fact thread crap? Is that what you are saying?
Or are you saying that the moderator did not post slanted comments in the very post which he instructed others not to comment on it anymore?
Which of those things did not happen?
I'll address it here.
there are deficiencies in both NV and ATI drivers. I am all too aware of the shot comings of both camps.
n7's comment does not show bias and it does shut down the conversation on NV drivers derailing a thread on AMD's upcoming series of cards (in which AMD drivers could still be relevantly discussed without derailing the thread). Not saying that he is aware of ATI driver shortcomings does not state that there are no ATI driver shortcomings.
You may have perceived it as biased because you are looking at it with your own bias. We all do that some times.
The bottom line is that you can voice your opinion on a subject. But we expect people not to derail threads. If you want to talk about NVIDIA driver problems or ATI driver problems, go start another thread about it. Link back to the AMD thread and mention you want to continue the discussion from where it left off. We aren't quelling people's voices we are trying to keep things organized.
Additionally, it helps to calm people down when you let them know that you understand why they want to bitch about something somewhere even when it is not an appropriate thread to do so. n7 letting people know that he understands that some people have frustrations with NVIDIA drivers is a good community management -- it shows he cares about what the members have to say even when they can't say it where they are saying it. It's a much more difficult job to balance on this side of it than members think -- you try and calm people down and really moderate (rather than police) and sometimes it gets thrown back in our faces. It's easier to lay down the law and walk away, but we are trying very hard to show the members that we care much more than that.
If you have any further complaints, please feel free to let me know. I hope I have addressed your concerns satisfactorily.
there are deficiencies in both NV and ATI drivers. I am all too aware of the shot comings of both camps.
n7's comment does not show bias and it does shut down the conversation on NV drivers derailing a thread on AMD's upcoming series of cards (in which AMD drivers could still be relevantly discussed without derailing the thread). Not saying that he is aware of ATI driver shortcomings does not state that there are no ATI driver shortcomings.
You may have perceived it as biased because you are looking at it with your own bias. We all do that some times.
The bottom line is that you can voice your opinion on a subject. But we expect people not to derail threads. If you want to talk about NVIDIA driver problems or ATI driver problems, go start another thread about it. Link back to the AMD thread and mention you want to continue the discussion from where it left off. We aren't quelling people's voices we are trying to keep things organized.
Additionally, it helps to calm people down when you let them know that you understand why they want to bitch about something somewhere even when it is not an appropriate thread to do so. n7 letting people know that he understands that some people have frustrations with NVIDIA drivers is a good community management -- it shows he cares about what the members have to say even when they can't say it where they are saying it. It's a much more difficult job to balance on this side of it than members think -- you try and calm people down and really moderate (rather than police) and sometimes it gets thrown back in our faces. It's easier to lay down the law and walk away, but we are trying very hard to show the members that we care much more than that.
If you have any further complaints, please feel free to let me know. I hope I have addressed your concerns satisfactorily.
i think its a bit much as well.. ive had slams posted against me and then when i try to respond they got removed.. then when i asked mod why he told me its against the rules to refer to this forum as communist china and not to pm mods.. i thought it was funny at least but it happens alot im sure.. just gotta live with it or move on.
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
In all due respect skywalker. I been reading anand tech and its forums for years. Yes I have been a bad boy. And there has been some great threads. Heated or otherwise.
But the moderating here at ATF has improved dramaticly. Do I trust these mods to be 100% unbias in a tech forum not on yourlife. Nor do I exspect them to be gods. This is just a tech discussion forum thats all man. I love tech with a passion because it gives me a bit of hope for future generation. But it only goes so far this love?hate I have for tech.
So no way do I exspect these people to be perfectly little fence walkers in somethng so meaningless as a tech forum . Gee I hope I have Made at least 1 friend. Thats what its about Luke . Trust the force luke learn to control it. We come here for many differant reasons to chat about something we all share a passion for . Its that simple skywalker.
Now would I trust these guys to Umpire a ball game without bias you bet your ass I do.
The ATI 4000 series thread should be left to that discussion . It wasn't a discussion on the NV 200series. WE have NO official record if either cards performance. It just foolish to go in a purposely upset the thread . When you have zero facts about whos got what.
I understand NV has the lead . So ASSuming is going on. Well C2D was no joke. Whos to say AMD/ATI can't pull off the same thing. One thing I do know about AMD they can multicore pretty dam good.
I proved that point today by shoving DX10.1 down the throats of the NV fanbois today Yet I stayed on topic which is the 200series and does it support Dx10.1. Was what I did wrong yep. But it proved my point. Until we can compare the cards lets not hagle. After we know thats a bit differant. Remember the R600 Man I ate crow on that baby . How many got burned on the K10 hype. That sucks man . No the mods are right on this.
Now if someone were saying things that are to far over the performance push than I would exspect rebutal. But thats not the case here at all.
But the moderating here at ATF has improved dramaticly. Do I trust these mods to be 100% unbias in a tech forum not on yourlife. Nor do I exspect them to be gods. This is just a tech discussion forum thats all man. I love tech with a passion because it gives me a bit of hope for future generation. But it only goes so far this love?hate I have for tech.
So no way do I exspect these people to be perfectly little fence walkers in somethng so meaningless as a tech forum . Gee I hope I have Made at least 1 friend. Thats what its about Luke . Trust the force luke learn to control it. We come here for many differant reasons to chat about something we all share a passion for . Its that simple skywalker.
Now would I trust these guys to Umpire a ball game without bias you bet your ass I do.
The ATI 4000 series thread should be left to that discussion . It wasn't a discussion on the NV 200series. WE have NO official record if either cards performance. It just foolish to go in a purposely upset the thread . When you have zero facts about whos got what.
I understand NV has the lead . So ASSuming is going on. Well C2D was no joke. Whos to say AMD/ATI can't pull off the same thing. One thing I do know about AMD they can multicore pretty dam good.
I proved that point today by shoving DX10.1 down the throats of the NV fanbois today Yet I stayed on topic which is the 200series and does it support Dx10.1. Was what I did wrong yep. But it proved my point. Until we can compare the cards lets not hagle. After we know thats a bit differant. Remember the R600 Man I ate crow on that baby . How many got burned on the K10 hype. That sucks man . No the mods are right on this.
Now if someone were saying things that are to far over the performance push than I would exspect rebutal. But thats not the case here at all.
wow nemesis 1 if i didnt think better id say you are former mod your trust for them and grammar give it away! im not English so cant really talk alot about it, but most of your post makes NO SENSE! it did make for some good laughs tho thanks
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