- Jun 24, 2001
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I'm moving this post to the "General" topic so I can get more exposure & at least SOME input (I had no replies elsewhere). Please, let me know if you guys are interested! If not, I won't attempt this because I am only doing it for attention! (I'm so pathetic, but it's the truth! 
) Either it just wasn't in the right forum topic before (Cases & Cooling) or no one there was interested so in either case, here goes:
I had a PSU fry several months back & never got around to throwing it away. For some reason, the idea came to me that I could use the housing from the crap PSU (Already removed) & throw in a couple motherboard monitored/controlled fans & make a "Fan Box" with an external PSU running through it... Now, I've never made a water-cooled system, but I figure that the extra space could be utilized for a pump/radiator instead, but I'll save that for a future project.
I asked PC Power & Cooling (They offer custom PSU jobs) "Are there any negative effects from running the PSU's cables the extra length required to reach from the outside (I estimate 3-5ft)?" I figured Electro-Magnetic Interferance (EMI) & extra resistance could be an issue so I mentioned it. Maybe they are trying to upsell me to a "more customized" job but they claim that the extra resistance from a cable 3-5 feet would drop the voltage by 5% & that they would have to customize the voltage outputs. I think they are exaggerating it somewhat (After all, they themselves sell 6" extentions, and all the molex splitters, fanleads, etc, can sometimes add up to a foot or two!), so I plan on asking a more technical electronics guy about this one before I spend the $130 they're asking!
Of course, with an external PSU, the SMALLEST high wattage PSU I can buy would be desirable so as to avoid inconvienient bulk. Micro ATX? FlexATX? Both are bulky & low wattage (Typically 180w or lower). The best I can find are the somewhat expensive 1u (~1.7" high) "Rackmount Server" style PSUs ($89 for a 250w from PCP&C!)
If the custom solution doesn't work out (I doubt it will) I will have to make my own extention cables from the old PSU's connectors (The motherboard connector has a black burn spot, so I don't really trust it) & the connector from the old motherboard that it took down with it (It was just too beautiful to throw away!). However, I plan on using those same connectors integrated on the outside of the fan box even if I can get the extended PSU so that the external PSU can connect externally also. This would make it a little more like a regular appliance's external AC adapter (A laptop comes to mind)!
I want to use as few power cables coming from the PSU box as possible, so is it OK to use only one 12v molex connector & split it w/ Y-cables once it's at the fan box? I had a small argument w/ my brother about this... A "Switching Power Supply" is able to provide the exact amount of power that is being drawn from it (ignoring the conversion efficiency rating of course). For example, a 300w PSU will only draw 200w from the outlet if that is all that is required to support the current power draw (Otherwise a 300w PSU really would cost more on the electric bill than a 250w PSU for a 200w system). So am I assuming correctly, that all 12v lines are from the same source & that I wouldn't be putting too much draw on one line? Or perhaps I'm right about that, but would putting that much power through 1 connector's extention cause the wire to overheat? Remember, longer wire = more resistance & Resistance is radiated off as heat (Which is why .13micron chips are cooler & less power consuming than .18micron). Of course, I would expect that same amount of total heat if the same power draw was running through 2 extentions in the same bundling of wires, but from what I know the real solution is thicker wires (Wires that are too thin for the power draw will overheat). So I guess I need to know if I need to get custom "thick wire" from PCP&C also...
Oh yeah, and here's one more idea to increase the extention wire count/thinkness (Worth it though I think): Have you ever wanted something in your PC that required a normal AC outlet? Most "modders" have thought of something. For example the little AC blacklights that were around before the molex style PC ones, or a built in UPS system (Which of course, wouldn't help in this setup!)! Well, whatever it is you want to add could be powered by an AC extention cable that's run to the fanbox with the other wires. Remember when PSUs had a weird inverted power jack on the back for the monitor to plug into? Well, that would require a larger 3-pronged grounded outlet but it's also possible with this mod. If the accessory doesn't require a grounded plug. then I could use one of the small laptop 2-port surge supressors & attach it to the external PSU's AC input somehow & run one of the small AC cords used for stereos & the like to the fanbox. Seems easy enough, but it brings up the EMI question again: Just how much interferance will a device inside your PC have with the other devices? This setup is definately not FCC regulated!
What about case grounding? Is a case grounded to the PSU through it's mounting screws? I mean, if you're supposed to touch the case to ground yourself, & your case uses plastic motherboard standoffs so it can't ground through the ATX connector, then that's the only place I can think of for it to ground. Well, the In-Win S508-IW P4 version chassis has a new "Grounding standoff" (It's in the P4 version only), so I guess newer systems do ground the case this way (or else it's used to ground the motherboard through the case!).
Well, tell me what you guys think! Has this been done before? It's alot simpler sounding than alot of what I know has been done! Would anyone like to attempt this before me so I could learn something? I don't feel comfortable without following someone's lead...
If I can't get the custom PCP&C 1u PSU then I will have to look for a cheaper model of course. Here are the logical options I've dug up so far:
Enermax 1u 250watt PSU
What is the difference between the 2 models? All I notice is that one shows no cables...
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products/eg-250s-v.htm
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products/eg-251pvb.htm
Sparkle 1u 250watt or higher PSU
P1G-6250P or P1G-6300P seems best on this front.
http://www.sparklepower.com/product2.htm#medical
Delta 1u 200watt PSU
Maybe there's a price advantage I dunno. They also offer the rare 200w Flex-ATX PSU
http://www.deltaww.com/products/powersupply/desktop.htm
PC Power & Cooling 200-300watt 1u PSU
This seems like the best option, and if the custom cabling thing is available, I hope to get it (Expensive though)...
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/index_hp_1u.htm
Seventeam
I dunno what they offer. The product page is down. But they do claim custom design is "welcome..."
http://www.seventeam.com/
Oh yeah, & none of this "custom manufactured PSU is not a real mod" reply crap. I'm looking for real input & besides: The real benefit is going to be the fan box & customizing the PSU would only be for neatness considering that I will be using my own home-made ATX connector extentions within the fanbox anyway if I even get the custom PSU (It seems too expensive!).
) Either it just wasn't in the right forum topic before (Cases & Cooling) or no one there was interested so in either case, here goes:I had a PSU fry several months back & never got around to throwing it away. For some reason, the idea came to me that I could use the housing from the crap PSU (Already removed) & throw in a couple motherboard monitored/controlled fans & make a "Fan Box" with an external PSU running through it... Now, I've never made a water-cooled system, but I figure that the extra space could be utilized for a pump/radiator instead, but I'll save that for a future project.
I asked PC Power & Cooling (They offer custom PSU jobs) "Are there any negative effects from running the PSU's cables the extra length required to reach from the outside (I estimate 3-5ft)?" I figured Electro-Magnetic Interferance (EMI) & extra resistance could be an issue so I mentioned it. Maybe they are trying to upsell me to a "more customized" job but they claim that the extra resistance from a cable 3-5 feet would drop the voltage by 5% & that they would have to customize the voltage outputs. I think they are exaggerating it somewhat (After all, they themselves sell 6" extentions, and all the molex splitters, fanleads, etc, can sometimes add up to a foot or two!), so I plan on asking a more technical electronics guy about this one before I spend the $130 they're asking!
Of course, with an external PSU, the SMALLEST high wattage PSU I can buy would be desirable so as to avoid inconvienient bulk. Micro ATX? FlexATX? Both are bulky & low wattage (Typically 180w or lower). The best I can find are the somewhat expensive 1u (~1.7" high) "Rackmount Server" style PSUs ($89 for a 250w from PCP&C!)
If the custom solution doesn't work out (I doubt it will) I will have to make my own extention cables from the old PSU's connectors (The motherboard connector has a black burn spot, so I don't really trust it) & the connector from the old motherboard that it took down with it (It was just too beautiful to throw away!). However, I plan on using those same connectors integrated on the outside of the fan box even if I can get the extended PSU so that the external PSU can connect externally also. This would make it a little more like a regular appliance's external AC adapter (A laptop comes to mind)!
I want to use as few power cables coming from the PSU box as possible, so is it OK to use only one 12v molex connector & split it w/ Y-cables once it's at the fan box? I had a small argument w/ my brother about this... A "Switching Power Supply" is able to provide the exact amount of power that is being drawn from it (ignoring the conversion efficiency rating of course). For example, a 300w PSU will only draw 200w from the outlet if that is all that is required to support the current power draw (Otherwise a 300w PSU really would cost more on the electric bill than a 250w PSU for a 200w system). So am I assuming correctly, that all 12v lines are from the same source & that I wouldn't be putting too much draw on one line? Or perhaps I'm right about that, but would putting that much power through 1 connector's extention cause the wire to overheat? Remember, longer wire = more resistance & Resistance is radiated off as heat (Which is why .13micron chips are cooler & less power consuming than .18micron). Of course, I would expect that same amount of total heat if the same power draw was running through 2 extentions in the same bundling of wires, but from what I know the real solution is thicker wires (Wires that are too thin for the power draw will overheat). So I guess I need to know if I need to get custom "thick wire" from PCP&C also...
Oh yeah, and here's one more idea to increase the extention wire count/thinkness (Worth it though I think): Have you ever wanted something in your PC that required a normal AC outlet? Most "modders" have thought of something. For example the little AC blacklights that were around before the molex style PC ones, or a built in UPS system (Which of course, wouldn't help in this setup!
)! Well, whatever it is you want to add could be powered by an AC extention cable that's run to the fanbox with the other wires. Remember when PSUs had a weird inverted power jack on the back for the monitor to plug into? Well, that would require a larger 3-pronged grounded outlet but it's also possible with this mod. If the accessory doesn't require a grounded plug. then I could use one of the small laptop 2-port surge supressors & attach it to the external PSU's AC input somehow & run one of the small AC cords used for stereos & the like to the fanbox. Seems easy enough, but it brings up the EMI question again: Just how much interferance will a device inside your PC have with the other devices? This setup is definately not FCC regulated! What about case grounding? Is a case grounded to the PSU through it's mounting screws? I mean, if you're supposed to touch the case to ground yourself, & your case uses plastic motherboard standoffs so it can't ground through the ATX connector, then that's the only place I can think of for it to ground. Well, the In-Win S508-IW P4 version chassis has a new "Grounding standoff" (It's in the P4 version only), so I guess newer systems do ground the case this way (or else it's used to ground the motherboard through the case!).
Well, tell me what you guys think! Has this been done before? It's alot simpler sounding than alot of what I know has been done! Would anyone like to attempt this before me so I could learn something? I don't feel comfortable without following someone's lead...
If I can't get the custom PCP&C 1u PSU then I will have to look for a cheaper model of course. Here are the logical options I've dug up so far:
Enermax 1u 250watt PSU
What is the difference between the 2 models? All I notice is that one shows no cables...
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products/eg-250s-v.htm
http://www.enermax.com.tw/products/eg-251pvb.htm
Sparkle 1u 250watt or higher PSU
P1G-6250P or P1G-6300P seems best on this front.
http://www.sparklepower.com/product2.htm#medical
Delta 1u 200watt PSU
Maybe there's a price advantage I dunno. They also offer the rare 200w Flex-ATX PSU
http://www.deltaww.com/products/powersupply/desktop.htm
PC Power & Cooling 200-300watt 1u PSU
This seems like the best option, and if the custom cabling thing is available, I hope to get it (Expensive though)...
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/highperformance/turbocools/index_hp_1u.htm
Seventeam
I dunno what they offer. The product page is down. But they do claim custom design is "welcome..."
http://www.seventeam.com/
Oh yeah, & none of this "custom manufactured PSU is not a real mod" reply crap. I'm looking for real input & besides: The real benefit is going to be the fan box & customizing the PSU would only be for neatness considering that I will be using my own home-made ATX connector extentions within the fanbox anyway if I even get the custom PSU (It seems too expensive!).
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