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Expensive Process of elimination. Is NeTBEUI just fickle? UPDATE --FINALLY GOT IT WORKING !

F

Fuzzymath

Member
I probably spent about $150 just to make sure I didn't have a hardware, cable or driver problem. This is also partly due to my ignorance of networking.

I couldn't get my desktop and laptop to connect using a crossover cable. I read a lot of documentation on peer-to-peer networking and I'm pretty sure I have all the settings right to make NeTBEUI work.

I went out and bought a hub and new patch cables. That didn't make any difference.

I went out and bought a new 3Com OfficeConnect 10/100 LAN PC Card w/XJACK. The other PC Card was a hand me down and I wasn't sure if the downloaded drivers were the right ones for the card. I also wanted to eliminate the dongle adapter. All this made no difference.

I don't know if the problem is that I also have the Dial-Up in Network properties along with NeTBEUI or what. I need Dial-Up to access our server when I'm working in the field.

Oh well, at least I KNOW I don't have a Hardware, cable or driver problem. Now I've narrowed it down to protocol configurations and my ignorance thereof.

Does NeTBEUI give anyone else the run around or is it just operator error?

TCP/IP here I come.
 
The easiest way to test is to try to use TCP/IP in it's most basic form. Install the protocol on the two boxes. Use the following settings

PC1: IP address is 192.167.1.10
PC2: IP address is 192.168.1.11

Subnet mask for both should be 255.255.255.0

On PC1 try to "ping 192.168.1.11" at the DOS prompt. If it works, you have a working network.

Do the reverse on PC2.

If neither works, try to ping your own IP address from each PC. If one works and one doesn't, monkey with the one that doesn't.

However.. If you can't get NETBeui to work, chances are something else is wrong. A few hints:

Make sure that you get link lights on the hub with both NIC's.
Make sure that in the "identification" tab of the network control panel both are in the same workgroup.
Make sure you have installed file/printer sharing in the network control panel and that you actualy share something (right-click on something in network neighborhood and choose Share)

Give this stuff a shot and let us know how it works.

- G
 
Actually, there is nothing you can configure in netbeui. Just try to. The properties icon in the configuration area is greyed out when you select netbeui. Netbeui is the protocol everybody tries first when nothing else will work simply because if it doesn't work then the problem isn't a protocol problem. Have you installed Client for Microsoft Networks?

Also want to second Garion's suggestion of checking your link lights. Make sure both are lit up or you most likely have a bad crossover cable.
 


<< PC1: IP address is 192.167.1.10
PC2: IP address is 192.168.1.11 >>



Garion,

Did you mean 168 in the first one?

Russ, NCNE

 
What does NETBEUI do? Am I right in saying it lets you set up a network without TCP/IP? (eg: you set NETBEUI up on both computers and they magically see each other in network neighborhood 😀)
 
NetBEUI is a transport protocol, as is TCP/IP. The major difference is that NetBEUI is used only within a single physical segment, while TCP/IP is routable to other subnets.

Yes, you can setup a network without using TCP/IP, but then you would have a little trouble connecting to the web.

TCP/IP is also more flexible and, barring a specific need for NetBEUI, is probably a better choice.

Russ, NCNE
 
Ok, it looks like I have an IRQ sharing problem on my desktop.

I tried to run the DOS Diagnostic utility and got a message like this:
!!! ERROR !!! Interrupt Resource Conflict
Possible hardware incompatability.

I've been moving the NIC to different slots but so far no change.

The DOS Diagnostic utility ran fine on my laptop.

I've got TCP/IP set with 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 and subnet 255.255.255.0

I still have the same problem as I did with NeTBEUI. On the computer that is set to master browser I can see both computers in Net Neighborhood. In DOS I can type net view and see both but can only ping the local one.

The other computer only shows it's self in Net Neighborhood.

Here are my IRQ settings (for now anyway).

0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
2 Programmable interrupt controller
3 Communications Port (COM2)
4 Communications Port (COM1)
5 VIA AC'97 Audio Controller (WDM)
5 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 ECP Printer Port (LPT1)
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 Lucent Win Modem
9 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
9 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
9 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
10 Win9x-ME Promise FastTrak100 (tm) Lite/Simple Controller
10 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
11 3Com OfficeConnect NIC (3CSOHO100-TX)
11 ASUS AGP-V7700 Pure/Deluxe v6.31c
11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller

No matter which PCI slot I stick the NIC in It will share IRQs with something. Any ideas on which IRQ to force on the NIC in the BIOS?

You can click on My Rig to see my the rest of my hardware.
 
Ignore the DOS utility. DOS does not use the IRQ miniport driver (Windows does). The Miniport does all the magic of redirecting the IRQs....it just isn't a part of DOS.

IRQ sharing (in Windows)is normal and wunnerful, otherwise you couldn't have so much stuff running in your system.

FWIW

Scott
 
Scottmac -- 3Com seems to think it's an important troubleshooting utility.

It runs on my Dell Latitude CPx P3 650 Mhz Laptop and it should run on my desktop.

Regardless of the IRQ issue it should run if the NIC is compatible with my Asus A7V133 mobo. I'm looking into that now.

EDIT>>> Forgot to respond to Garion and igiveup. Thanks for responding. Yea I've got everything set and installed the way you guys suggested.
 
OK, whatever. Have you gone to viahardware.com or viatech.com and brought down/installed the latest drivers for the chipset (which includes an updated IRQ Miniport driver)?

I'd find it really hard to believe that you're the first guy that ever put that 3COM card in an ASUS K7133. If they weren't pretty well compatible you'd be reading lots about it on the mobo forum here and any of the other boards.

Good Luck.

Scott
 
That's a good idea.

It's looking like you were right about the IRQ issue. I don't understand why the DOS Diagnostic wouldn't run but that's a minor problem ccompared to the networking ordeal.

I also find it strange that I'm apparently the only one that's had this kind of problem. I've tried about 100 different things to make this work.

Both computers show up in Network Neighborhood (on the one I set as master browser). In DOS I can ping the local computer but not the remote one. The lights blink on the hub on both ports. I've got shared drives, printers, folders and files on both computers. I just can't seem to make them connect.

I've got a D-Link NIC in a boxed up Sony I may did out and try later.

I'm headed to viahardware.com

Thanks





 


<< I don't understand why the DOS Diagnostic wouldn't run >>



Because DOS is not capable of sharing IRQ's thus, a DOS based utility will always tell you that there is a problem if two devices are sharing the same resources.

The updated IRQ router may do the trick.

ScottMac,

While, generally speaking, you're are on target in saying that resource conflicts aren't a problem in Win98, it does sometimes happen. I've built hundreds of systems with the OS happily sharing everything in sight, no problem.

Every now and then, though, I'll run in to exactly the wrong combination of components and the sharing will crap out for some unexplained reason. And, this is almost always because of a network card, and in particular, happens with VIA chipsets.

Rare, but it does happen.

Russ, NCNE
 
As the proud owner of a number of Via chipset-driven systems (with Radeon cards, Win2K), I absolutely agree.

FWIW

Scott
 
Well, I've put off learning networking way too long (never had an interest) and now it's catch up time. This is a heck of a way to start out.

Russ -- Thanks, I was about to ask why the DOS tool works on the laptop. Then I checked the IRQs in System Information and saw the NIC had it's own IRQ. Now I feel a little better knowing I don't have another separate problem.

I downloaded the 4 in 1 drivers (4.28 Final), 686B Bug Fix and the IRQ Routing Drivers. It doesn't look like it helped. I still haven't had a chance to start fresh and work with it.

I was thinking of pulling out the NIC and modem and removing all protocols from Network Properties and just putting in the NIC and installing Client for Microsoft Networks, File and Printer Sharing and NeTBEUI. If that doesn't work I'll do the same thing but put in the D-Link NIC instead.

Any thoughts?
 
Just some thoughts...

A. You say that you can see the other computer is Network Neighborhood..so some networking is functioning. Can you expand on that? ie, can you Net View the other computer? From laptop &amp; desktop?

B. You can't ping from one box to the other: so TCP/IP is NOT working.

If A is working ok, do you need TCP/IP? It sounds as if the browsing is taking place across Nbt, which is operating completely independantly from the non-functioning TCP/IP. I would lean towards some misconfiguration of TCP/IP, rather than a hardware problem.


--Woodie
 
Woodie -- Whichever (is that a word?) computer I enable the Browse Master option (in File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks) will show both computers in Network Neighborhood. When I double click on the remote computer it searches for it then I get a message that says:

\\LAPTOP is not accessible.
The computer or sharename could not be found. Make sure you typed it correctly, and try again.

If I type net view at a DOS prompt it shows both computers names. If I type NET VIEW \\LAPTOP I get a message that says Error 53: The computer name specified cannot be located ......

If I type NET VIEW \\DESKTOP it will show all of the shared folders in the desktop.

The same thing happens on the other computer if I enable Browser Master on it.

It does basically the same thing with TCP/IP. When I ping 192.168.0.1 (remote computer) it receives nothing back.





 
Well, somehow browse functionality is working, but then the transport layer can't find the target. Hmmmm. Perhaps the browser service is cacheing the other device entry? Not sure.

In any case, networking, under any protocol, is not working. I think your idea of removing all the network components, and then just installing the MS client &amp; NETBEUI parts is the right way to go. Make sure that under the computer name part, you give each one a unique name, but an IDENTICAL workgroup name. On the machine w/ DUN, make sure that nbt is bound to the NIC and not the DUN adapter. Also make sure that nbt over TCP/IP is NOT enabled (see Gibson Research for detailed instructions.

--Woodie
 
I'm thinking you have some &quot;misalignment&quot; in your configuration on either/both machines. Te &quot;Here I am&quot; traffic from the computers is broadcast, every computer see it, every computer has to evaluate it to some level.

It appears that your computers are getting the broadcasts (wire/hub/switch/NICs are working), but whatever misconfiguration you have is making one computer think the other computer is not on the same network.

Check your addresses and subnet masks again carefully. Verify that both computers are set to &quot;Workgroup&quot; and that the workgroup name is the same. Check the network properties screens and set them so that the same protocol(s) is/are selected, and that your primary protocol is listed first and is set as the default.

Maybe ask someone else to compare or read the values back to you....a second pair of eyes can be a good thing in cases like this.

Sorry to re-hash, but it's gotta be something basic.

Good Luck

Scott
 
This Saga is already lasting for 5 days.

IMHO trying to repair a system under this condition, when multiple components are involved, does not allow us to target and isolate the source of the problem.

What I would do at this point.

UnInstall all the Network Components.

Run a Reg. Cleaner Software.

Install the NIC drivers.

Install NetBEUI only.

Try if it is working at this stage.

If it does not work then it is some very basic Hardware or Windows problem.

If it is working on this level, keep installing components (TCP/IP, Internet etc.) one at the time.

Good Luck.
 
Thanks everyone for responding and thanks for your patients. I finally got a chance to get back to this networking challenge. I copied this thread to a Word Doc so I could refer to it off line.

I opened my Sony and pulled the D-Link NIC (DFE-538TX) out of it and downloaded the drivers. I'm going to try the recommendations on this thread before I try the D-Link.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottmac ---

&quot;Check your addresses and subnet masks again carefully. Verify that both computers are set to &quot;Workgroup&quot; and that the workgroup name is the same. Check the network properties screens and set them so that the same protocol(s) is/are selected, and that your primary protocol is listed first and is set as the default.&quot;

Both computers have the same workgroup name but I'm not sure how to &quot;set&quot; both computers to &quot;Workgroup&quot;.

Is there a different way to move your primary protocol to the top of the list besides removing the others and then reinstalling them? I don't remember if I even got that to work.

 
This is great. While I'm typing this I've got Network Neighborhood open on my desktop and my laptop and I can see all shared drives on each remote computer.

I tried removing EVERYTHING from network properties and just installing Client for Microsoft Networks, my 3COM adapter, NeTBEUI and File and Printer Sharing but it still wouldn't work.

I finally pulled the 3COM NIC and Installed the D-Link NIC and installed the above protocols and, SHAZAM, all networking functions suddenly started working perfectly.

I then installed dial up so I could use my modem and get on line. Everything works good.

I'll try out the crossover cable later when I get time to play around with it.

Thanks again

Mickey
 
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