EXPATS check in please!

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Hi, I'm in the negotiation stage for my company to move me to another country. What I'd like to know is what kind of packages you were compensated with, i.e. housing, relocating expenses, etc...

Management is kinda "noobish" about this whole deal, so I will have to come up with some firm figures if I was to be successful in negotiating. I looked around on the web, but came up short with any sites offering any standardized packages. If you can point me to a location where I can show them these industry standards, it would make me breath easier.

Any ideas? And any help is much appreciated.

Edit: Sorry, moving from SoCal to Singapore.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,152
39,352
136
You might want to post the country in question or at least region of the world, I'm sure answers will differ somewhat based on that.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Not outside the country, but having moved around plenty on anothers ticket:

Standard Relo packages usually cover what the IRS looks at.

2-3 days temp housing before move
Packing & shipping of furnishings
Transportation of vehicles (one per person and possibly up to 4)
30-60 days temp housing at new place (per diem or actual food/living/misc costs)
Costs can be as a family or per person (I have had both)
Transportation of self/family.
Purchasing/selling costs of house
Lease breaking and/or deposits
Utility deposits
Misc allowance for expenses at new place (I was given 2K once to cover registration / licenses, deposits, etc)

Expenses for 1 house hunting trip at new location prior to move


 

LS21

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
3,745
1
0
national move is:

all expenses day before, day of, and day after move (meals, temp lodging, etc) for self and family
all packing & shipping
week of stay (hotel) for house-hunting trip
break lease, and compensation up to 25k if current property sells below appraised value
all fees (realtor, mortgage, etc) related to selling / buying of property
1-month salary for "misc" expenses
spouse gets 1-month of job relocation service
child gets enrollment in school etc


for international move, children get subsidized private schooling in english-taught institutions
salary adjustment+ and multiplier depending on country
usually subsidized housing at about ~1/2 to 3/4rd of standard rent

few other things here and there
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Not outside the country, but having moved around plenty on anothers ticket:

Standard Relo packages usually cover what the IRS looks at.

2-3 days temp housing before move
Packing & shipping of furnishings May be taxed if Singapore has a VAT

Transportation of vehicles (one per person and possibly up to 4) May wanna put car in storage here, get company provided car if needed over there etc

30-60 days temp housing at new place (per diem or actual food/living/misc costs). For int'l moves there are companies in Singapore that specialize in finding expat housing. Often you take a pre-move trip and secure/approve housing. You don't wanna ship your possesions int'l and move into one temp place only to move again in couple months. You'll never get any work done.

Costs can be as a family or per person (I have had both) COLA salary increase based partly on family size

Transportation of self/family. Also annual trip to USA, their help on contingencies such as family death require yoiur return for funural etc.

Purchasing/selling costs of house Prolly don't wanna sell

Lease breaking and/or deposits
Utility deposits
Misc allowance for expenses at new place (I was given 2K once to cover registration / licenses, deposits, etc)

Expenses for 1 house hunting trip at new location prior to move

I used to work in this field (international relocaion).

Is your company large, and who is their CPA firm?

The CPA firm may have a divison specializing in int'l relocations. If so, you and your company should meet with them. They can tell you typical relo package for Singapore, and potential tax consequeces (more on this below).

How long are you planning to work in Singapore?

If it's for the typical 3 year assignment, prolly don't wanna sell your house here. Particularly if you're gonna return to your current area. Before getting into this further, let us know if you're gonna sell (despite my suggestion not to), and whether you'll rent in Singapore (best choice IMO unless you're gonna be there permantly).

Most keep their home. Be aware that homeowners insurance increases for a vacant home. Many keep some of their posessions in storage here, the company pays.

What is your family status? Do you have kids etc (private school may be necessary etc).

IMO, an important concept to establish from the begining is whether you expect to adopt a Singaporian lifestyle, or you want the company to help maintain the US lifestyle you have in CA.

Example, I've seen execs from Indiana sent to Paris. They expected the same lifestyle, a big house with a yard and a pool. That cost a ton of money in Paris where most people live in appts/townhouses. Should be given a COLA adjustment while in Singapore that allows to eat the same foods as here, or are you willing to go native?

Many of the reimbursements and /or expenses may not be tax deductible. So, some of the payments by the company on your behalf may need to be "grossed up". In other words, some of these payments may need to reported on your W2, and since you can't deduct the cost you'll have extra income taxed. They need to pay that in for you, plus that payment itself is taxable. You will also continue to be taxed in the USA while in Singapore. You may need professional tax help paid for by the company so you legally deal with the US and foreign taxes.

Int'l relos can be complicated and expensive. It's uaually no good for you or the employer if you're unhappy over there. Everything should be planned out and costs/taxes calculated before you commit so you know what to expect (and your expectations actually happen).

The CPA's can likely save you and the company much money by proper planning.

Fern
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Thanks everyone.

Our company is based here in SoCal, but we are international and the office in Singapore would be an expansion. I believe we work with D&T as our auditor, and I do have a pretty good idea of who is our CPA firm (one that owns by the company founder). That's out of the way, we're pretty much a relatively small company of less than 400 employees.

If I'm going, I plan to stay there no less than 2 years, possibly longer. I don't own anything here so I won't have to deal with the headache of selling or storing things. Renting will be my biggest problems as prices are astronomical on that tiny island, most if not all companies that service expats offer ridiculous pricing as well. I don't have kids, no dogs or cats, but I do have a domestic partner.

COLA is expected, whether or not I want to maintain the same lifestyle, and I'm trying to figure out what is the proper ratio (or industry standard for that matter). I have asked about taxes, and Amish (where did that guy go?) told me that he is currently doing taxes for expats, and I will probably try to get more from him. As I understand it, my tax obligations will be reduced when I'm away from the US, I'm also obligated to taxes in host country but they are deductibles for US.

It's kinda sad that I actually have to do most of the researching, and I think the company's motivation is the cheapest way to move me there. I'm just going for fair.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Thanks everyone.

Our company is based here in SoCal, but we are international and the office in Singapore would be an expansion. I believe we work with D&T as our auditor, and I do have a pretty good idea of who is our CPA firm (one that owns by the company founder). That's out of the way, we're pretty much a relatively small company of less than 400 employees.

D7T will surely have people specializing in this. I see that they have a Singapore office too. I suggest contacting them. The fee the company pays would likely be offset by savings reaped.

D&T likely even has research already performed for some other client on a Singapore assignment. They should be a ble to provide an already existing memo for not too much.

Otherwise, just pay for a one hour meeting.


If I'm going, I plan to stay there no less than 2 years, possibly longer. I don't own anything here so I won't have to deal with the headache of selling or storing things. Renting will be my biggest problems as prices are astronomical on that tiny island, most if not all companies that service expats offer ridiculous pricing as well. I don't have kids, no dogs or cats, but I do have a domestic partner.

I'd insist taht the company take out teh lease it's name and pay a good chunk of the rent if it's higher rent. Need to make sure it's structured right to avoid a pile of income taxes. You want the lease in their name in case you have to leave early and don't wanna be stuck the fee etc.

COLA is expected, whether or not I want to maintain the same lifestyle, and I'm trying to figure out what is the proper ratio (or industry standard for that matter). I have asked about taxes, and Amish (where did that guy go?) told me that he is currently doing taxes for expats, and I will probably try to get more from him. As I understand it, my tax obligations will be reduced when I'm away from the US, I'm also obligated to taxes in host country but they are deductibles for US.

You should be able to find COLA info with google. How much more expensive Singapore is to your current location is a good start in determing additional compensation.

Re: US income taxes, you should be able to qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. Many would prefer the Foreign Tax Credit over the deduction. Your comp level (amount of taxable income) determines which approach is better.

Again, be wary of taxes. E.g., if you need a COLA increase of $20K (just making this up) you'll need more than $20K cuz after taxes you may have only $16K.

Gotta watch your state tax as well. Depending on the state and your personal circumstances you may be subject to state income while in Singapore. And they may not offer the exclusion or credit/deduction for foreign taxes. I.e., a potenial high state income tax bill.

Some employers charge their emloyees a hypotheitical income tax and the employer remains contractually obligated for actual foreign, US and state taxes. Employees can avoid being bothered by all the complexity and risks and employers ensure good compliance for their employees. Plus, it's no good for anybody if tax problems develop.



It's kinda sad that I actually have to do most of the researching, and I think the company's motivation is the cheapest way to move me there. I'm just going for fair.

Again, I think they oughtta talk with the D&T firm to make sure that they are doing this the best (least expensive tax-wise) way. They also need to make sure that their payroll dept does things the right way. It's better to get it right from the start, instead of spending a bunch of money & time try to fix accounting mistakes.

Also, since your company will have a new (foreign office) that's gonna affect their own corporate tax returns (Singapore and US). Good planning is very helpful there too.

Don't forget medical coverage etc.

Social security is likely another issue to consider.

Fern
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Have you been to Singapore? Are you sure you want to move there?

The city is very clean and organized, but its so small that you can easily get bored

Food is amazing though.
 

mooglemania85

Diamond Member
May 3, 2007
3,324
0
0
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Have you been to Singapore? Are you sure you want to move there?

The city is very clean and organized, but its so small that you can easily get bored

Food is amazing though.

So are teh women!

Okay, maybe not.

Someone's catching the Fever!

But you got it all wrong.

Tentacle pron / Used Female Underroos --> Japan
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
Originally posted by: mooglemania85
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Have you been to Singapore? Are you sure you want to move there?

The city is very clean and organized, but its so small that you can easily get bored

Food is amazing though.

So are teh women!

Okay, maybe not.

Someone's catching the Fever!

I can assure you the women are also hot </shifty eyes>

Been there plenty of times, and love the place. It's like a very giant gated community with very easy access to the neighboring countries.

Boring is relative, you can be bored anywhere.

Edit: I actually like it a lot more than Japan, HK or Beijing.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Originally posted by: mooglemania85
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Have you been to Singapore? Are you sure you want to move there?

The city is very clean and organized, but its so small that you can easily get bored

Food is amazing though.

So are teh women!

Okay, maybe not.

Someone's catching the Fever!

I can assure you the women are also hot </shifty eyes>

Been there plenty of times, and love the place. It's like a very giant gated community with very easy access to the neighboring countries.

Boring is relative, you can be bored anywhere.

Edit: I actually like it a lot more than Japan, HK or Beijing.

So do you mind sharing what you will be doing? Is your company hiring? :p my home country is near Singapore...

 

mooglemania85

Diamond Member
May 3, 2007
3,324
0
0
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Originally posted by: mooglemania85
Originally posted by: z0mb13
Have you been to Singapore? Are you sure you want to move there?

The city is very clean and organized, but its so small that you can easily get bored

Food is amazing though.

So are teh women!

Okay, maybe not.

Someone's catching the Fever!

I can assure you the women are also hot </shifty eyes>

Been there plenty of times, and love the place. It's like a very giant gated community with very easy access to the neighboring countries.

Boring is relative, you can be bored anywhere.

Edit: I actually like it a lot more than Japan, HK or Beijing.

So do you mind sharing what you will be doing? Is your company hiring? :p my home country is near Singapore...

Chasing skirt. Drinking. Seeing if everyone always come in 3's...

 

LS21

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
3,745
1
0
Originally posted by: SSSnail


COLA is expected, whether or not I want to maintain the same lifestyle, and I'm trying to figure out what is the proper ratio (or industry standard for that matter). I have asked about taxes, and Amish (where did that guy go?) told me that he is currently doing taxes for expats, and I will probably try to get more from him. As I understand it, my tax obligations will be reduced when I'm away from the US, I'm also obligated to taxes in host country but they are deductibles for US.

i dont have the exact details on this. but we're a very international companies and ive met lots of international workers. in gist, its overwhelmingly beneficial to be an international mobile worker due to the benefits. again, dont know how taxes work in specific but its always to the workers favor. i think you will be better off in the end