Existence of the "historical Jesus" increasingly questioned by scholars

[Texashiker]

Really? Through out history religion has killed, oppressed and tortured people and you wonder why some would look to disprove it? That wasnt even very far outside the box to get to that one.

No, true followers of Christ do not do such things.

More like people used religion as an excuse to kill, rob and torture.

Any excuse is a good excuse, right?

 

[xBiffx]

Really? Through out history religion has killed, oppressed and tortured people and you wonder why some would look to disprove it? That wasnt even very far outside the box to get to that one.

Yes, I wonder why those who think something is fantasy looked to disprove it. Seems rather silly to me.

 

[Retro Rob]

Clearly, the people in the historical Jesus' time believed in magic and other superstitions and lacked the proper analytical and critical skills, along with knowledge, to properly vet his assertions.

No, magic etc condemned:

There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, 11 or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead.

Duet 18:10-13.

...of course, you'd probably spin that to mean something else, but ancient Israel was not to believe in those things, let alone Christians.

 

[soulcougher73]

Yes, I wonder why those who think something is fantasy looked to disprove it. Seems rather silly to me.

Well maybe when the people with the fantasies decide to stop dictating laws and rules upon people who dont share that fantasy, maybe then they will stop. Besides the aforementioned death and destuction they bring.

Sorry you cant see it. Im not sure how to spell it out more dumbed down.

 

[soulcougher73]

No, true followers of Christ do not do such things.

More like people used religion as an excuse to kill, rob and torture.

Any excuse is a good excuse, right?

Ahh the "true" Christians wouldnt do that schtick.

 

[Texashiker]

Well maybe when the people with the fantasies decide to stop dictating laws and rules upon people who dont share that fantasy, maybe then they will stop.

As I asked before, what would you replace love, charity and forgiveness with?

Ahh the "true" Christians wouldnt do that schtick.

If you follow the teachings of Christ, one does not harm others.

 

[SlowSpyder]

So many people want to say that some stories in the bible are metaphors. Some of the evil stuff god does in the old testament, the story of adam and eve, the story of god making the world in six days all come to mind. So with that in mind, who's not to say that the story of jesus wasn't a big metaphoric story to show you how to be 'saved' and express god's love?

I think you have either buy into what's in the bible completely and purposely ignore all the contrary evidence, that is, not think because you want reality to be what you want it to be. Or, you have acknowledge that some of it is wrong or not meant to take literal, but then it becomes anything you want it to be, your own personal christianity built on a framework of the bible but really based on very little and sort of made up and different person to person.

 

[kage69]

I will never understand why a man who taught only peace and love is hated so much.

If you want proof that Jesus existed, look no further than Josephus.

I will never understand your devotion to being wrong. Don't think I've seen many sentences posted here that can approach the above in pungency of bullshit.

Really, that is one hell of scathing comment on your own intelligence there. Unsurprisingly, you don't seem to be familiar with the concept of "proof" at all here, and that's on top of apparently being quite unaware of why Josephus isn't considered an authority on anything.


Another subject TH doesn't know shit about, I mean really, what are the odds?


The dogma and histrionics of mainstream christianity will continue to get holes torn through it - better stock up on the Boudreaux's guys.

 

[soulcougher73]

As I asked before, what would you replace love, charity and forgiveness with?




If you follow the teachings of Christ, one does not harm others.

Why would i replace those things? Im an athiest and i believe in all of those things.

 

[xBiffx]

Well maybe when the people with the fantasies decide to stop dictating laws and rules upon people who dont share that fantasy, maybe then they will stop. Besides the aforementioned death and destuction they bring.

Sorry you cant see it. Im not sure how to spell it out more dumbed down.

Sorry, your persecution complex isn't real either. No one is passing religious laws in this country, quite the contrary actually. I can't even begin to figure out how you could believe that.

 

[soulcougher73]

I will never understand your devotion to being wrong. Don't think I've seen many sentences posted here that can approach the above in pungency of bullshit.

Really, that is one hell of scathing comment on your own intelligence there. Unsurprisingly, you don't seem to be familiar with the concept of "proof" at all here, and that's on top of apparently being quite unaware of why Josephus isn't considered an authority on anything.


Another subject TH doesn't know shit about, I mean really, what are the odds?


The dogma and histrionics of mainstream christianity will continue to get holes torn through it - better stock up on the Boudreaux's guys.

But i still love TH as a human and forgive him for his ignorace. Thank you Jesus

 

[IronWing]

In the op you mentioned that you were of the opinion that the Jesus of Christianity did exist, I'm not being a prick I promise but I wonder if people who do believe in his existence have thought of what that actually would mean. This is a quote from CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity that I've always found very pointed:

In his famous book Mere Christianity, C.S. Lewis makes this statement, "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg--or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.

Lewis is using a debate technique that is fairly common in the proselytizing world. Set up the target to either accept the divinity of Jesus or to say something bad about Jesus who the target knows is admired by almost everybody in our culture. The demand to make this choice should be dismissed out of hand as cheap debate gimmickry.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I will never understand why a man who taught only peace and love is hated so much.

If you want proof that Jesus existed, look no further than Josephus.

Haters gonna hate.

Christ taught love, forgiveness and charity. If you destroy the man, you destroy his teachings.

Those who would do away with the teaching of Christ, what would those teachings be replaced with?

Lust? Hate? Greed?

The true evil here are the people who wish to destroy the teachings of Christ.

Because, jesus' good parts don't exist in a vaccum. If you want jesus, you need the bible. And the bible is a very violent book that warps the morals of millions.

I did some volunteer work for charity just last week for an anti-child abuse fundraiser and breakfast event. My own time, not getting paid, not required for anything. I do that kind of stuff once in a while. I'm an atheist. If you really need jesus to do some good for your fellow man, then I feel bad for you honestly.

I personally don't care for teachings that make people afraid and fearful of their own body and basic human desires, but glorifies violence. You're probably too far gone, too indoctrinated at this point. But, something to think about, what if some of what is taught from the bible was actually immoral because the source isn't as morally decent as you think?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

No, magic etc condemned:



Duet 18:10-13.

...of course, you'd probably spin that to mean something else, but ancient Israel was not to believe in those things, let alone Christians.

It is "magic" when people from other religions or sects preach it, but "miracles" when your own religion does it.

 

[fskimospy]

Don't you know, all those are faked, or were "later additions".

Notice this too, TH, that anyone mentioning Jesus was lying, or the documents are fabrications and exaggerations....this is normally how atheists hold on to their lies by poising the well before anyone objectively examines it.

I'm most certainly an atheist and I don't hate Jesus. People who have a problem with Christianity generally have a problem with the sorts of things Christians do that affect them.

 

[kage69]

How do modern christians reconcile their favorite story having multiple predecessors from Egypt, Mesopotamia and India bearing the same basic points?

How do modern christians square who they think of as their jesus with the existence of other similar figure, like Apollonius of Tyana?

Intellectual bankruptcy, sorry faith, is a fascinating thing!

 

[kage69]

But i still love TH as a human and forgive him for his ignorace. Thank you Jesus

As a proud secular humanist, I forgive ignorance too. It's the love of ignorance, the allergic reaction to knowledge, that I have a harder time understanding and accepting.

 

[Texashiker]

Another subject TH doesn't know shit about, I mean really, what are the odds?

Haters gonna hate.

No matter what proof is presented you would reject it. Even if we had video, pictures and eye witnesses, you would reject it.

You sir are full of hate.

Because, jesus' good parts don't exist in a vaccum. If you want jesus, you need the bible. And the bible is a very violent book that warps the morals of millions.

Yes they do and no you do not.

The old testament setup for the arrival of Christ.

Once Christ started teaching, his teachings abolished the old testament. The old testament is no longer relevant.

The first set of laws were given through Moses. The jews turned their back to those teachings. So GOD established a new set of laws through Christ. The new laws are meant for everyone and not just jews.

 

[Retro Rob]

It is "magic" when people from other religions or sects preach it, but "miracles" when your own religion does it.

I'm not the one who wrote the text. But anyway, no one's making you believe any of it.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm most certainly an atheist and I don't hate Jesus. People who have a problem with Christianity generally have a problem with the sorts of things Christians do that affect them.

I to have a problem with Christianity. Being one myself surely doesn't mean I'm blind to the issues prevalent in the religion.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

No matter what proof is presented you would reject it. Even if we had video, pictures and eye witnesses, you would reject it.

That sounds like Christians when scientific proof is presented to refute the accounts in the Bible.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm not the one who wrote the text. But anyway, no one's making you believe any of it.

Unlike many on AT, I don't have any problems with religious people. To me, dealing with your own mortality is very personal and I harbor no grudges against anyone for being religious, unless they want to force their belief system on others.

 

[doubledeluxe]

It's threads like this where you truly see the insanity and ridiculousness of organized religion.

Believe in god all you want. Have faith. But believing and worshiping a fairy take story us nothing less than mental illness.

Do you dumbasses still believe in Santa too?

 

[Texashiker]

That sounds like Christians when scientific proof is presented to refute the accounts in the Bible.

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to religion.

Jews are some of the most educated people in the world, but they are not hounded for believing in a fake GOD.

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/09/21/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world/3/

It is generally accepted that Moses existed, even though there is little proof for his existence.

Believe in god all you want. Have faith. But believing and worshiping a fairy take story us nothing less than mental illness.

Angry there might be a higher power? Upset that humans are not the highest power in the universe?

 

[Retro Rob]

Unlike many on AT, I don't have any problems with religious people. To me, dealing with your own mortality is very personal and I harbor no grudges against anyone for being religious, unless they want to force their belief system on others.

Mortality? I'm very comfortable with knowing death is the absence of life, and that it's really nothing more than permanent "sleep".

Hell is a myth (just a erroneous translation of the Hebrew word "sheol" and the Greek word "Hades" which means "abode of the dead"), so I'm not concerned about that.

My beliefs give me answers I've been looking for. Mortality has never entered the picture, quite honestly.