Excuses to get out of Murder

Dedpuhl

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
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There was a man that worked at my store that worked graveyards. He was riding his bike home from work and a drunk lady ran him over and drug him for over 130 feet. His neck, back, legs, and arms were broken and he died two weeks later(his family opted to take him off life support).
The problem I have is that this lady will probably get off easy for this crime. She hit him and left the scene. She turned herself in the next day. Even though she basically killed the man, she will most likely get some kind of probation and may a few years in prison b/c she was under the influence.
Is there any excuse for a murder? I believe in the philosophy of "an eye for an eye." She killed the man, so she should be put to death with no questions asked. Why does our society say "well she didnt know what she was doing, she was drunk, lets go easy on her"?
If a retarded citizen kills 3 people, but didn't know right from wrong...does that excuse the citizen from facing the punishments? This is used a lot in the case of children and teenagers. They use the "not knowing right from wrong" scapegoat to excuse the crime. This is total Bull$hit. If you do the crime, you do the time. I don't care how young or retarded you are. That is what is wrong with society in the US. If we would punish people instead of locking them up with a workout area and 3 hot meals a day, then we would live in a nicer world.


How do u feel about this? Should murder be excused based on drunkeness, retardation, and "knowing right from wrong"?
 

BigKev

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2000
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<< I believe in the philosophy of &quot;an eye for an eye. >>



Me too .. that's why I think they should bring back the death penalty.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
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Generally, if someone truly doesn't know 'right from wrong', they should be in a mental institution until it can be determined that they do know right from wrong. In the case of someone that is severely mentally retarded, how can you punish them for doing something they are incapable of understanding is wrong? Society should be protected by making sure the person is somewhere where he or she can not do any further harm.

In the case of someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol, I agree with you completely. You took the drugs, you knew what you were doing, and you did it anyway. You should therefore bear any consequences of your actions.

The 'temporary insanity' defense is rarely successful in trial, despite what you might be led to believe from watching TV. Most juries don't just buy into the insanity defense without some solid evidence to back it up.
 

DaBoneHead

Senior member
Sep 1, 2000
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Killing and murder are different. Lets face it, humans are fragile animals, and getting killed is a daily possibility.

By your argument, if there is a plane crash and someone dies, if the pilot survives, he could be put on trial and executed for murder, since he had a part in that persons death.

As far as the woman goes, she may or may not have known right away that she hit the person, but regardless it was unintentional, and therefore she could get Vehicular Manslaughter. Leaving the scene of an accident is a felony, I believe, so she could face sentencing on that. If she was drunk, then different all together.

I'm just trying to say that do-do occurrs. The woman wasn't a true criminal, in the fact that she was not conspiring to do harm to others. She will have to live with her conscience, as well as the lawyers of the surviving family members. Now that could be a fate worse than death!

Compassion is a virtue, especially in a situation where someone is unintentionally responsible.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
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Ghandi said An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

How can you think that a retarded person should be put to death for committing a crime that they don't understand the consequences and reprocussions of? What is the point of punishing a person like that? It doesn't do them any good. Putting a person like that to death for doing something they don't understand would be like coming home to find that your dog shitted all over the carpet, so you hit your dog. Your dog doesn't know that you're hitting him because of his &quot;accident&quot; on the carpet...and neither does this retarded person or small child.

I just don't understand the &quot;eye for an eye&quot; logic. Especially when applied so broadly like you are doing.
 

VisionsUCI

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
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something should happen, more than just probation. lock her up maybe? of course, it was valiant of her to turn herself in, knowing that some people do get away with hit and runs. personally, my car has been hit and run'ed before. then again, thats a little different than hitting a pedestrian.
 

Dedpuhl

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
10,371
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well. The lady didnt exactly turn herself in voluntarily. After she ran him over, she went home and went back to the scene of the crime in a different vehicle. When she saw that he was gone, she went to the police station and asked if there was an accident(or something to that effect). The police became suspicious of her and she eventually admitted to doing it.
 

Bakwetu

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
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&quot; I believe in the philosophy of &quot;an eye for an eye.&quot;&quot;
Well if you really do so your logic is clear. There are a few countries that have a lot of that philosophy in their legislation, Saudi Arabia fx.

So do you think we should cut off peoples hands because they steal as well? BTW warezing is stealing.;)
 

ChrichtonsGirl

Platinum Member
Aug 24, 2000
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Slightly unrelated to your question, but I have a similar story. Just a couple of miles from my house, a woman was killed when some asswipe plowed into her car at an intersection (she was going home after babysitting her grandkids). The guy that hit her just kept going, but fortunately, some people nearby saw it and took down his plate number. He had a history of drunk driving arrests and accidents, but by the time he was tracked down of course he didn't have any alcohol in his system (witnesses saw him completely plowed at a bar right before the accident).

He was a boil on the ass of humanity in all respects, beat up women, didn't pay child support, collected unemployment and disability while he sat on his worthless ass getting drunk all day long. The woman he killed was the mother of four, grandmother to seven, volunteered at church, worked her whole life at a regular job, had a husband who loved her and a community she cared about and was active in.

The POS D.A. plea-bargained this worthless excuse for a human being down to involuntary manslaughter and he got three years in jail for killing this woman, despite months of petition signing by the community begging him not to settle the case, to allow it to go to trial. (And the D.A. found himself voted out of office at the next election.)

In some cases, I would be willing to throw the switch on the vermin myself. At the very least, if you kill someone, you forfeit your right to be in society for a long, long time. Yes, there are instances of diminished capacity that are genuine, but I still think if you are capable of taking a life, you need to be separated from the rest of the world for a long time, regardless of your mental capabilities. Should mentally handicapped people be placed in the same prisons as the rest of the murderers? Probably not, but they must still be held responsible in some way, maybe not for their own sake, but so society starts placing greater value on human life and is more offended by the taking of it. Being pro-death penalty in certain cases is not necessarily a contradiction of that philosophy - I am always sad when someone is executed, not because I grieve the loss of the murderer, but because their death was necessary because of their actions and disregard for life.

I am consistently amazed at how numb we've become to people killing each other.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
Accidents do happen, and you can't harshly judge someone because of an accident, and you can't judge someone that's incapable of understanding the actions. However, if someone of able mind decides to get drunk and thus causes an accident to happen bringing harm to another, they should be held completely responsible for their actions, throw the book at them, put them in jail for as long as it takes to 'make the victim whole again'. In cases where the victim dies, the perp should be in prison for life.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
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I agree with tagej, if someone doesn't know right from wrong, punishment is futile. They probably won't even understand they are being punished, so what's the use? But if it's drugs/alcohol, you did it to yourself - face the consequences.

ChrichtonsGirl, shame on that DA. And I agree that there is an increased callousness regarding murder. In a way, I'd like to see more death penalty cases - not to revel in more people being put to death,
but in the hope it would be a deterrent to others and we'd have fewer murders overall.

On the lighter side, I am reminded of Steve Martin's line on how to beat the rap: &quot;I forgot....that murder was illegal&quot;. A little sarcasm on the ability of people to claim diminished capacity to get away with it.
 

BeHeMOTH

Senior member
Nov 9, 1999
547
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Well you say what you want if your driving a car drunk and kill someone it's murder, so if your flying a plane drunk what the difference? Depends on the plane and passangers. Some people are held liable for their actions, but I agree eye for a eye. This is another problem that won't go away.
 

Chef0083

Golden Member
Dec 9, 1999
1,184
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This is kind of unrealted to but I feel the need to share!

How is insanity a defense? I'm serious, if I person was insane, especially if they were temporarily insane, that makes the MORE dangerous in my eyes. I think if you use the insaity plea you should automaticaly be put in an institution for life and never let out. If you are insane then you need to be there, and if you were temporarily insane you should be there for the NEXT time you go insane.

Personally, I used to be a proponent of the Death Penalty. I have since changed my mind because I don't think ANYONE should take a human life EVER. People also try to use the bible as a reason for it,, but the Lord says &quot;Vengance is mine&quot;,,, so that counts that out in my opnion.

anyway, just neede to share.
D