Exclusive: Obama authorizes secret U.S. support for Syrian rebels

[OCGuy]

No blood for oil!

Obama sure seems like a DINO to me.

 

[tweaker2]

Well, trying to paint Obama as a girly man for not invading Iran didn't work so good for the Repubs, so I guess painting him as war mongerer and international shit stirrer is the next best Repub talking point up to bat.

Aside from the few righties that express an reasonable and pragmatic attitude in this forum, the only consistent thing the Repubs have going in their all-out war on Obama is their "nearly" perfect record on opposing anything and everything that Obama proposes or is a proponent of.

 

[OCGuy]

Well, trying to paint Obama as a girly man for not invading Iran didn't work so good for the Repubs, so I guess painting him as war mongerer and international shit stirrer is the next best Repub talking point up to bat.

Aside from the few righties that express an reasonable and pragmatic attitude in this forum, the only consistent thing the Repubs have going in their all-out war on Obama is their "nearly" perfect record on opposing anything and everything that Obama proposes or is a proponent of.

So it is OK now for Obama to threaten Iran and get involved in numerous civil wars in the ME, yet if it was a (R) you would still be screaming warmonger, MIC, etc.

Your post is about how Republicans are now flip-flopping on agreeing with this approach for foreign policy.

Do you not see the irony in this?

 

[rayfieldclement]

When will the USA learn to MIND IT'S BUSINESS when it comes to other countries. We should not have gone to Iraq. Kuiwait was drilling into iraq's oil ffields from across borders when Iraq invaded.

 

[a777pilot]

The "exclusive" Reuters story is linked here:


http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-obama-authorizes-secret-u-support-syrian-rebels-215804682.html


Question: If the support is indeed "secret" ... how do we know about it?

LOL!

SOP for an amature....and that's what we have, an amateur as President.

 

[davmat787]

Well, trying to paint Obama as a girly man for not invading Iran didn't work so good for the Repubs, so I guess painting him as war mongerer and international shit stirrer is the next best Repub talking point up to bat.

Aside from the few righties that express an reasonable and pragmatic attitude in this forum, the only consistent thing the Repubs have going in their all-out war on Obama is their "nearly" perfect record on opposing anything and everything that Obama proposes or is a proponent of.

Please do not use the terms "righties" and "repubs" interchangeably, as they no longer are. Every day the Republican party seems to disappoint true conservatives more and in new ways.

I imagine quite a few true liberals feel the same way about the Democrats.

 

[kage69]

Where was a real threat to the Saddam regime?

Dissenters yes; active threat - none.

Even the Northern Kurds were a PITA; not a threat of losing his power.

Iran for one, and the groups it helps. Disgruntled inner circle, maybe tired of being beaten or having their finger nails ripped out for perceived slights. Family members just scared shitless of Saddam's penchant for horror, the occasional pruning of the family tree (see Kamel Hussein) and all that. Sons taking over from dads has happened before too (Oman and Qatar are the ones I'm familiar with, but I'm sure there have been more) and I don't mean in the "Someday lad...all this will be yours!" kinda way either.

Saddam had to worry about long term threats like exiled groups dedicated to his overthrow as well as the spontaneous, opportunistic threats like the good ol motorcade ambush (see Dujail in Earl's link). He had the same problem with a charismatic war hero that Stalin did too - both men were seen as threats and eliminated.

The Saddam faithful were a minority in Iraq. The need for super security via a large protection detail, doubles, and dozens of estates and palaces to constantly move between was not just a production of paranoia or ego.

 

[ky54]

I take it you don't know recent history. Bush created an artificial need for a ground war in Iraq. Obama is allegedly sending in aid to rebels in an active civil war.


There is no comparison.

I'm quite aware of recent history. Maybe you have forgotten about the convoys heading into Syria while the Democrats stalled the war for almost a year? I'm betting you think that was all just tourists. You can't see the forest because of those damned trees. Every single step Obama has taken is exactly the same as Bush and now when the wheels are turned you can't man up and admit it.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Absolutely, but if I have to read about one of those I'd prefer it to be the variety that doesn't involve American intel and assets being compromised.

It's tempting to try and frame it all in either black or white, but I can't help noticing a few glaring differences between a "leak" concerning non-direct involvement resisting a dictator who is slaughtering innocents en masse, and the outing of an operative over a political agenda that has a lasting chain reaction effect on other operatives, fronts, and contacts.

Regardless, it shouldn't really be news. Our informal assistance has been going on for awhile now, and we are hardly the only ones helping out. I don't think anyone is surprised. Assad's days are numbered, making sure the struggle is as bloody and long as possible via our inaction is no way to ingratiate ourselves with "the new boss." Let's let China, Russia and Iran fill the role of pariahs in Syria's Assad-free future.

AFAIK, the drama about wikileaks was way overblown, and all the outlandish claims were shown to be false.

Anyway, illegal is still illegal, but good to know most people only care if the government tells them to care. If the government leaks, it is OK....if it makes them look bad, well, look out, it's helping terrorism, hurting people's lives, etc, etc....and everyone is out for blood.

Great double standard.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Unlike Libya, we will honestly be able to say Obama is not fighting a war for oil in Syria. Of course, unlike Libya, he will not use US forces in Syria...and that is obviously because of the lack of oil.

So when are the hordes of people who wanted to hang Bush for fighting Mideast Wars going to cry for the death of Obama due to his mideast wars?

Oh great, who let the troll back in? It was so quiet with him gone again.

 

[kage69]

AFAIK, the drama about wikileaks was way overblown, and all the outlandish claims were shown to be false.

Anyway, illegal is still illegal, but good to know most people only care if the government tells them to care. If the government leaks, it is OK....if it makes them look bad, well, look out, it's helping terrorism, hurting people's lives, etc, etc....and everyone is out for blood.

Great double standard.

I was referring to Plamegate, not Wikileaks.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm quite aware of recent history. Maybe you have forgotten about the convoys heading into Syria while the Democrats stalled the war for almost a year? I'm betting you think that was all just tourists. You can't see the forest because of those damned trees. Every single step Obama has taken is exactly the same as Bush and now when the wheels are turned you can't man up and admit it.

Land invasion
Citing forged documents after they were determined forged.

Aluminum tubes that a jr analyst brought up cited as proof of an enrichment program AFTER Sandia said they were wildly out of spec for that purpose and correctly identified their use.

Mobile chemical weapons labs? No.

Citing our intel echoes as evidence that other nations have valid intel of their own.

I'm not an Obama supporter but I am qualified to be able to spot willful deception or what has to be the most egregious example of gross stupidity and incompetence in a hundred years. Black Op players are better.

 

[werepossum]

Land invasion
Citing forged documents after they were determined forged.

Aluminum tubes that a jr analyst brought up cited as proof of an enrichment program AFTER Sandia said they were wildly out of spec for that purpose and correctly identified their use.

Mobile chemical weapons labs? No.

Citing our intel echoes as evidence that other nations have valid intel of their own.

I'm not an Obama supporter but I am qualified to be able to spot willful deception or what has to be the most egregious example of gross stupidity and incompetence in a hundred years. Black Op players are better.

The forged documents were never used as justification for invasion - the Brits knew even before they were produced (after Bush's speech) that a French agent had forged those and they caught no one except the left wing media which intentionally or otherwise tried to impugn Bush with that story. The yellow cake uranium Bush referenced was that bought earlier by Iraq from Nigeria. That uranium was very real indeed. After we deposed Saddam, we engineered the sell of that uranium - over five hundred tons - by Iraq to Canada for use in their heavy water reactors. That uranium was also why the forged documents didn't fool even our notoriously gullible CIA - if you already have over 500 tons of yellow cake uranium, and enough centrifuges to enrich fractions of an ounce per year, why on Earth would you seek to purchase more?

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-07/us/iraq.uranium_1_yellowcake-uranium-cameco?_s=PM:US

The United States secretly shipped out of Iraq more than 500 tons of low-grade uranium dating back to the Saddam Hussein era, the Pentagon said Monday.

The U.S. military spent $70 million ensuring the safe transportation of 550 metric tons of the uranium from Iraq to Canada, said Pentagon spokesman Brian Whitman.

The shipment, which until recently was kept secret, involved a U.S. truck convoy, 37 cargo flights out of Baghdad to a transitional location, and then a transoceanic voyage on board a U.S.-government-owned ship designed to carry troops to a war zone, he said.

The "yellowcake" uranium transfer was requested by the Iraqi government at the encouragement of the U.S. government, Whitman said.

The United States approached Canadian company Cameco to bid for the material, according Cameco spokesman Lyle Krahn. He would not disclose the winning bid amount.

Krahn admitted that this was not a "routine transaction," but he said the agreement was approved by the Canadian government and was carefully monitored.

The undertaking, named "Operation McCall" by Pentagon officials, was in the planning stages for months and was completed Saturday after the material had been in transit for weeks, according to Whitman.

He said yellowcake uranium is a commonly traded commodity used for nuclear power generation. It is not enriched and cannot be used without first going through a complicated enrichment process, he said, but because of the unstable nature of Iraq, the United States and the Iraqi government decided it should be moved out of that country. Iraq has no nuclear power generating plants.

This isn't of course a WMD, although many dirty bombs could be built with it - probably as dangerous as a heavy metal as for its radioactivity. And while we now know that Iraq did not have anywhere near enough centrifuge capacity to make a bomb in any reasonable time frame, we might not have known that then.

EDIT: No one in the West knows what was in those convoys to Syria and the air lifts to Russia. Probably contraband, or part of his vast wealth. I think though we can safely assume that, on the eve of an invasion that if successful could only lead to his death, Saddam would not have been sending WMDs out of the country.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The forged documents were never used as justification for invasion - the Brits knew even before they were produced (after Bush's speech) that a French agent had forged those and they caught no one except the left wing media which intentionally or otherwise tried to impugn Bush with that story. The yellow cake uranium Bush referenced was that bought earlier by Iraq from Nigeria. That uranium was very real indeed. After we deposed Saddam, we engineered the sell of that uranium - over five hundred tons - by Iraq to Canada for use in their heavy water reactors. That uranium was also why the forged documents didn't fool even our notoriously gullible CIA - if you already have over 500 tons of yellow cake uranium, and enough centrifuges to enrich fractions of an ounce per year, why on Earth would you seek to purchase more?

snopes

The uranium was indeed real. It was from an obsolete and discontinued nuclear weapon program and entirely under the control of international agencies. Yes it was in Iraq, but it was sealed and guarded and completely unavailable to Saddam. That's what was sold.

The forged documents were never used as justification for invasion - the Brits knew even before they were produced (after Bush's speech) that a French agent had forged those and they caught no one except the left wing media which intentionally or otherwise tried to impugn Bush with that story.

Have a look at this.

Yep, Bush knew, or had no excuse for not knowing.

Note that there is a reference to the Senate report if you disbelieve the link. Suffice it to say the administration did not believe the reports a year before they were brought out in evidence. Yes they knew quite well what they were doing.

 

[cybrsage]

Oh great, who let the troll back in? It was so quiet with him gone again.

LOL Hi stalker! I see you missed me while I was in Tennessee. Your shallow life is now again fulfilled by following me around the forum.

 

[werepossum]

snopes

The uranium was indeed real. It was from an obsolete and discontinued nuclear weapon program and entirely under the control of international agencies. Yes it was in Iraq, but it was sealed and guarded and completely unavailable to Saddam. That's what was sold.


Have a look at this.

Yep, Bush knew, or had no excuse for not knowing.

Note that there is a reference to the Senate report if you disbelieve the link. Suffice it to say the administration did not believe the reports a year before they were brought out in evidence. Yes they knew quite well what they were doing.

I wouldn't agree that the yellowcake was "entirely under the control of international agencies" or "sealed and guarded and completely unavailable to Saddam" since we had no idea where it was until our troops discovered it. I would agree it wasn't relevant and that Bush was being somewhat dishonest when he mentioned it. Everyone knew Saddam had the uranium, and virtually everyone agreed he lacked the refining capacity to make use of it.

 

[fskimospy]

I wouldn't agree that the yellowcake was "entirely under the control of international agencies" or "sealed and guarded and completely unavailable to Saddam" since we had no idea where it was until our troops discovered it. I would agree it wasn't relevant and that Bush was being somewhat dishonest when he mentioned it. Everyone knew Saddam had the uranium, and virtually everyone agreed he lacked the refining capacity to make use of it.

Although I agree generally with what you guys have said I think that arguing over evidence misses the point because I don't think Bush was particularly interested in the evidence for WMDs in Iraq.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this earlier, but there's one damning piece of evidence about this that puts it all together, and that's the disputed 2002 Iraq WMD national intelligence estimate. An NIE is basically the authoritative judgment of the entire US intelligence community, the 'gold standard' for intel evidence. (note: the fact of how wrong it was is not lost on me, haha.. intelligence is hard work)

If you look at the 2002 NIE however, one thing is striking and that's who it was prepared for. The (in)famous NIE was requested by the Senate Intelligence Committee, not the Administration. It was only finished when plans to go to war were already well underway. Despite the fact that the report came out in support of his policy, the fact remains that he never even asked what weapons were really there.