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Fanatical Meat said:
I get that, I'd simply be happier if Trump just said yes Russia attempted to change the election and here is what I plan to do about it (followed by a reasonable plan)
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lol We're talking about Trump here! He's a f*cking train wreck!

I agree. But you're missing an important point imo...not only did Russia attempt to hurt Hillary in the election (thereby helping Trump)...they immediately attempted to discredit the legitimacy of Trump's victory after the election. Their goal is to disrupt our political process and destabilize our country any way they can...and they're doing a damn good job of it too.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
lol We're talking about Trump here! He's a f*cking train wreck!

But you're missing an important point imo...not only did Russia attempt to hurt Hillary in the election (thereby helping Trump)...they immediately attempted to discredit the legitimacy of Trump's victory after the election. Their goal is to disrupt our political process and destabilize our country any way they can...and they're doing a damn good job of it too.
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I have not seen any evidence of this to date
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
lol We're talking about Trump here! He's a f*cking train wreck!

I agree. But you're missing an important point imo...not only did Russia attempt to hurt Hillary in the election (thereby helping Trump)...they immediately attempted to discredit the legitimacy of Trump's victory after the election. Their goal is to disrupt our political process and destabilize our country any way they can...and they're doing a damn good job of it too.
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That point is not missed, I have trouble accepting Trump perpetual Putin ass kissing and dumb excuses why sanctions haven't happened
 
Fanatical Meat said:
That point is not missed, I have trouble accepting Trump perpetual Putin ass kissing and dumb excuses why sanctions haven't happened
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The 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back. But seriously...I agree.

When it comes to Russia I'm not sure who is more naive...Obama or Trump.
 
This can't be surprising. They do what they can to get him elected, then immediately attack the legitimacy post election to sow discord and distrust in the U.S. political process. And they have succeeded 'bigly'.

The real problem here is the obvious "my side" mentality of the people in the U.S. There's no interest in actually finding out what can be done to fix anything. Just how can I blame this on the other team. And until you guys can somehow check that at the door, you're screwed.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Facebook, Twitter: Russian actors sought to undermine Trump after election
https://www.politico.com/story/2017...ian-meddling-sought-to-undermine-trump-244380

Seeing a pattern yet?
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Very interesting point. Overall Russia is conducting war against the USA-a cyberwar, and one that is generating them enormous benefits for each ruble expended. I doubt even they expected Trump to actually win, but he did-and damn near everything since then is a win-win for them.

Take a look at the sanctions law Congress forced down Trump's throat and one that he signed. That law mandates the White House specify the new sanctions to be imposed by October 1, 2017. A month has passed and nothing at all has happened. Trump is a very willing idiot in this war, at a minimum. But he is loyal to those who bailed out his collapsing empire.
 
Thump553 said:
Very interesting point. Overall Russia is conducting war against the USA-a cyberwar, and one that is generating them enormous benefits for each ruble expended. I doubt even they expected Trump to actually win, but he did-and damn near everything since then is a win-win for them.

Take a look at the sanctions law Congress forced down Trump's throat and one that he signed. That law mandates the White House specify the new sanctions to be imposed by October 1, 2017. A month has passed and nothing at all has happened. Trump is a very willing idiot in this war, at a minimum. But he is loyal to those who bailed out his collapsing empire.
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the simple fact that trump is the most immoral, divisive and chaotic candidate to ever run for the presidency ensured Russia's victory in this election.

just today, trump again attacked the US by calling our justice system a "laughing stock"
 
MomentsofSanity said:
The real problem here is the obvious "my side" mentality of the people in the U.S. There's no interest in actually finding out what can be done to fix anything. Just how can I blame this on the other team. And until you guys can somehow check that at the door, you're screwed.
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One look at this forum and the mentality that pervades it gives you the answer...yes, we're screwed. Look at all the anger. Look at all the hacks here who live to ridicule anyone who doesn't share their opinion or live in their particular bubble. Hell, most here can't even separate fact from opinion (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/act-college-kids-cant-discern-between-fact-opinion). This is indeed about "my side" mentality and the rather perverse self-identity that goes with it. Yes, we are indeed screwed.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
One look at this forum and the mentality that pervades it gives you the answer...yes, we're screwed. Look at all the anger. Look at all the hacks here who live to ridicule anyone who doesn't share their opinion or live in their particular bubble. Hell, most here can't even separate fact from opinion (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/act-college-kids-cant-discern-between-fact-opinion). This is indeed about "my side" mentality and the rather perverse self-identity that goes with it. Yes, we are indeed screwed.
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Yep, and then there are those that interpret other people calling out their bullshit as "ridiculing anyone who doesn't share the same opinion."
 
Thump553 said:
Very interesting point. Overall Russia is conducting war against the USA-a cyberwar, and one that is generating them enormous benefits for each ruble expended. I doubt even they expected Trump to actually win, but he did-and damn near everything since then is a win-win for them.

Take a look at the sanctions law Congress forced down Trump's throat and one that he signed. That law mandates the White House specify the new sanctions to be imposed by October 1, 2017. A month has passed and nothing at all has happened. Trump is a very willing idiot in this war, at a minimum. But he is loyal to those who bailed out his collapsing empire.
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Obama should have acted a long time ago. This shouldn't even be an issue for Trump.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
One look at this forum and the mentality that pervades it gives you the answer...yes, we're screwed. Look at all the anger. Look at all the hacks here who live to ridicule anyone who doesn't share their opinion or live in their particular bubble. Hell, most here can't even separate fact from opinion (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/act-college-kids-cant-discern-between-fact-opinion). This is indeed about "my side" mentality and the rather perverse self-identity that goes with it. Yes, we are indeed screwed.
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Well most of us here are pretentious assholes (I know I am at least), and hardly reflective of the culture at large.
 
Speaking only for myself, I feel like I have no side and haven't since I left the GOP in the late 90s. I am angry, and I'm angry at the GOP for the most part--they've gone batshit insane. I'm angry at the Democrats for being their typical weanie selves and pissing away victory as they so often do...I may not like them but the enemy of my enemy and all that.... GOP supporters--my extended family a case in point--willingly have immersed themselves in horseshit and call it "news". I see some of this on the other side as well, mainly from people who feel like it's the only way to win: who lies best will get the votes. Sadly, they might be right. But there's a large number of people in the middle, maybe not large enough, who are pissed at what is going on right now in government. George Orwell recognized that the "fake news" he saw during the Spanish Civil War was a society-killer, and wrote a couple books that you may have heard of that talked about it 🙂 I also think we are fucked, and it's because there is no desire to find a common truth. I think one side is mostly to blame for it.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
One look at this forum and the mentality that pervades it gives you the answer...yes, we're screwed. Look at all the anger. Look at all the hacks here who live to ridicule anyone who doesn't share their opinion or live in their particular bubble. Hell, most here can't even separate fact from opinion (http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/act-college-kids-cant-discern-between-fact-opinion). This is indeed about "my side" mentality and the rather perverse self-identity that goes with it. Yes, we are indeed screwed.
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It is very hard to take articles complaining about people's inability to discern fact from opinion seriously from websites with articles such as "indoctrination has always been the goal of progressive education".

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/indoctrination-has-always-been-goal-progressive-education

Whoever makes that website needs to step back and take a looooooong look at themselves, haha.
 
alien42 said:
the simple fact that trump is the most immoral, divisive and chaotic candidate to ever run for the presidency ensured Russia's victory in this election.

just today, trump again attacked the US by calling our justice system a "laughing stock"
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You meant Obama, right?
 
fskimospy said:
It is very hard to take articles complaining about people's inability to discern fact from opinion seriously from websites with articles such as "indoctrination has always been the goal of progressive education".

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/indoctrination-has-always-been-goal-progressive-education

Whoever makes that website needs to step back and take a looooooong look at themselves, haha.
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Yeah...f*ck the facts (http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/NCS_Report_Web.pdf) smear the site. Who again needs to take a long look at themselves?
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Yeah...fuck the facts (http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/NCS_Report_Web.pdf)...smear the site. Who again needs to take a long look at themselves?
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Can you explain to me how I am 'smearing' the site by simply pointing out articles it not only hosts, but actively advertises? Did you read the article I linked and does the author seem to be someone who is effectively able to separate fact from opinion? lol. It never ceases to amaze me that you clearly read such a wide range of insanely biased right wing news/opinion.

As to a link to the survey itself, I didn't say anything about the ACT survey, simply your site's response to it. The obvious question that would come from that is if professors think college students are significantly less able to do that now than in the past, adjusting for changing demographics in colleges. If they aren't, then we are simply talking about a standard feature of humanity so we are no more screwed now than we ever were. I would also guess that the standard that college professors use for that is higher than what most people would use.

It's a silly hit piece from a right wing website that fails to take even basic steps to validate its claims. Sure looks like they could use some advice on rational discourse, lol.
 
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