EXCLUSIVE: documents reveal another Trump land deal nightmare scam

[Darwin333]

Remarkable that you'd simply return to the assumption that all the people involved were flippers.

That's not likely true at all.

Why is it relevant if they were flippers or not? Does that somehow change the fact that they still made a speculative investment at the height of a bubble and got caught holding the bag just like 10's of thousands of other people at exactly the same time?

I know people upside down on their mortgages today who weren't flippers. They were just looking for a home. No one is giving them their lost money back and they can't even sell to get out from under the debt.

 

[Darwin333]

Whom they were led to believe was Trump, but not really-

Bullshit. If you can afford to purchase a damn near million dollar luxury condo then you should be able to read the name on the contracts AND do your due diligence by having a lawyer go over the paperwork before you sign.

I deal with developers all the time and I can't afford a million dollar condo. Yet somehow I always know very quickly and easily who signs the checks and who cashes them. There is this entire legal process in place to ensure that you can figure out exactly that...

This is like blaming Michael Jordan because your pair of Nike shoes fell apart and claiming that you thought you were buying them straight from Jordan. When discussing million dollar real estate deals the "idiot" defense doesn't hold much weight.

I did notice that you haven't once recognized how lucky these poor millionaires that you care so deeply about are, at least concerning this deal.

 

[emperus]

I'm making assumptions based on the fact that I know very well how preconstructs, especially luxury condos, were bought and sold during the housing boom. Purchasing real estate is an investment, purchasing the promise of real estate that doesn't yet exist is a speculative investment in my opinion. Please feel free to tell me where you think I'm wrong.

Is it as speculative an investment as giving a developer a deposit to build you a home? Or similarity any contractor who you give a deposit to do some work on your house? You seem to be playing loose with the terminology. They paid a deposit for a house they expected to be built. I don't think there is anything speculative about that.

Sigh, I'm not sure if you are just trying to jam something against Trump or if you are truly ignorant of the facts.

It's not "who" Trump licensed his name to it was when. Since the Chairman of the friggen Fed said that there was no bubble I personally find it rather difficult to expect one business man to know the exact timing that the bubble would pop. For the 10th time or so, the developer did them a favor by not completing construction. If construction would have been completed every last one of them would have willfully sacrificed their deposits. That's just the smart play when you are looking at spending $800K on something that is now worth $400K.

The fact that Trump chose a developer to license his name to that weathered the collapse and was still in business to be sued says a hell of a lot more good things about him then you are trying to say bad things. Virtually any other identical situation, of which there were thousands upon thousands, and no one got squat. These people actually recoup a substantial amount of their loses and it's a bad thing?

Well seeing that he settled with them and he "never settles" in his own words. He probably thought he may have some liability when it went to court.

 

[BoberFett]

LOL! What a fucking tool you are!

LOL! What a fucking tool you are!

 

[Genx87]

Why is it relevant if they were flippers or not? Does that somehow change the fact that they still made a speculative investment at the height of a bubble and got caught holding the bag just like 10's of thousands of other people at exactly the same time?

I know people upside down on their mortgages today who weren't flippers. They were just looking for a home. No one is giving them their lost money back and they can't even sell to get out from under the debt.

Yup, these people story is not unique. Millions of people got nailed in the housing crash. Some of us still have a house worth less than when it was purchased nearly a decade ago. Will we ever get our money back? When factoring in property tax, inflation, and maintenance. Highly doubtful.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Why is it relevant if they were flippers or not? Does that somehow change the fact that they still made a speculative investment at the height of a bubble and got caught holding the bag just like 10's of thousands of other people at exactly the same time?

I know people upside down on their mortgages today who weren't flippers. They were just looking for a home. No one is giving them their lost money back and they can't even sell to get out from under the debt.

Ground was never broken and investors were initially told that all the money was gone? This project smells terrible. Losses are one thing, but it does not appear there was ever good-faith intent to see this project through. It's like a Trump-sponsored play on The Producers. The fact of any substantial settlement suggests (but admittedly does not prove) this.

It's not the only failed Trump-licensed project:

http://www.thestar.com/business/rea...estors-lose-legal-fight-to-rescind-deals.html

This one is in a city that has experienced no softness whatsoever in real estate. The project is a loser even though the market has outperformed any reasonable expectation. This project may possibly, eventually be bailed out by another decade of double-digit price growth but it was not even close to viable as originally conceived.

 

[Darwin333]

Is it as speculative an investment as giving a developer a deposit to build you a home? Or similarity any contractor who you give a deposit to do some work on your house? You seem to be playing loose with the terminology. They paid a deposit for a house they expected to be built. I don't think there is anything speculative about that.

But it wasn't a house/"home" was it? They purchased the right to buy a specific unit in a luxury high rise condo that had yet to be built or fully funded. They knew this very well at the time because that is exactly what a preconstruct is. Even if you are a complete and total idiot the name of what you are buying, preconstruct, gives it away. The fact that you can afford to buy a million dollar condo means that you can hire the attorney to explain to you exactly what a preconstruct is.

Well seeing that he settled with them and he "never settles" in his own words. He probably thought he may have some liability when it went to court.

Well NOW you have something to bash him about, he "never settles" and he did settle. When he said that BS I knew he was lying, he doesn't see half of the lawsuits that his companies get and I guarantee he settled a lot more than just this lawsuit.

 

[Fern]

Is it as speculative an investment as giving a developer a deposit to build you a home?

It's much more speculative than that. In the above case you are not dependent upon others to pre-purchase too. In addition you are not relying on the developer to be successful raising funds; you are providing them. There is no similarity in these situations

Or similarity any contractor who you give a deposit to do some work on your house? You seem to be playing loose with the terminology. They paid a deposit for a house they expected to be built. I don't think there is anything speculative about that.

Same as above. No similarity.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

But it wasn't a house/"home" was it? They purchased the right to buy a specific unit in a luxury high rise condo that had yet to be built or fully funded. They knew this very well at the time because that is exactly what a preconstruct is. Even if you are a complete and total idiot the name of what you are buying, preconstruct, gives it away. The fact that you can afford to buy a million dollar condo means that you can hire the attorney to explain to you exactly what a preconstruct is.



Well NOW you have something to bash him about, he "never settles" and he did settle. When he said that BS I knew he was lying, he doesn't see half of the lawsuits that his companies get and I guarantee he settled a lot more than just this lawsuit.

So, buyer beware when dealing with Trump, right? If he can scam millions from people who have money, just imagine what he can do with payday loan folks over something that doesn't cost money, their votes.

 

[Genx87]

So, buyer beware when dealing with Trump, right? If he can scam millions from people who have money, just imagine what he can do with payday loan folks over something that doesn't cost money, their votes.

You are trying too hard. Buyer beware whenever entering a deal like this.

 

[emperus]

It's much more speculative than that. In the above case you are not dependent upon others to pre-purchase too. In addition you are not relying on the developer to be successful raising funds; you are providing them. There is no similarity in these situations .
Fern

I haven't seen the contract they signed or the understanding that both parties had. But you are making it seem more like an investment rather than just a property purchase. Given that they did sue them and they did get some of their money back that the developer hadn't lost and I assume was supposed to have kept, it didn't seem like the intent was for them to lose their deposits.

I just don't see the two as dissimilar. Even with a developer who is building your house, there is an outside chance he may run off with your money. That doesn't mean that you expect to lose it or that it was speculative on your part.

 

[Fern]

I haven't seen the contract they signed or the understanding that both parties had. But you are making it seem more like an investment rather than just a property purchase. Given that they did sue them and they did get some of their money back that the developer hadn't lost and I assume was supposed to have kept, it didn't seem like the intent was for them to lose their deposits.

I just don't see the two as dissimilar. Even with a developer who is building your house, there is an outside chance he may run off with your money. That doesn't mean that you expect to lose it or that it was speculative on your part.

I have no intention to make it seem like an investment etc. IMO, the intent, whether flipping it or using it, is irrelevant.

I am, however, trying to emphasize the risk of buying a "pre-sale" in a foreign country. I find that the article has left out some really important info: Why wasn't their deposit placed in escrow? Was it supposed to be or were these people agreeable to no escrow?

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

I have no intention to make it seem like an investment etc. IMO, the intent, whether flipping it or using it, is irrelevant.

Fern

Please. It's one thing to end up swimming with the sharks & entirely another to be a shark.

Donald has flimflammed more investors than either of us will ever meet & pitched to a helluva lot more. Doesn't mean he's lying, just that he takes enough up front to make it worth his trouble while herding them through the door. He's a helluva barker. If it weren't more risk than he & bankers wanted to take he wouldn't need to float pre-purchase financing.

He doesn't need to convince a majority of interested parties at all & probably closes on a small percentage. Fortunately, that won't win an election.

 

[Fern]

Please. It's one thing to end up swimming with the sharks & entirely another to be a shark.

Donald has flimflammed more investors than either of us will ever meet & pitched to a helluva lot more. Doesn't mean he's lying, just that he takes enough up front to make it worth his trouble while herding them through the door. He's a helluva barker. If it weren't more risk than he & bankers wanted to take he wouldn't need to float pre-purchase financing.

He doesn't need to convince a majority of interested parties at all & probably closes on a small percentage. Fortunately, that won't win an election.

He wasn't the developer.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

He wasn't the developer.

Fern

He doesn't need to be to put his brand on it as a come-on for the players & the rubes.