Excellent piece on the state of Islamic extremism in Britain and the fight against it

[yllus]

Make no mistake, this is a long article. However, for those of you truly interested in how an extremist ideology can ferment and fester within an inclusive, democratic state such as Britain, this is required reading.

The commentary is comprised of four parts, and is seemingly out of order: The discussion of why Britain gives birth to extremists is the third act. This is the part I'll post below.

Renouncing Islamism: To the brink and back again

III. Lost in liberalism

As children and teenagers, the ex-jihadis felt Britain was a valueless vacuum, where they were floating free of any identity.

Ed Husain, a former leader of HT, says: "On a basic level, we didn't know who we were. People need a sense of feeling part of a group – but who was our group?" They were lost in liberalism, beached between two unreachable identities – their parents', and their country's. They knew nothing of Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or the other places they were constantly told to "go home" to by racists.

Yet they felt equally shut out of British or democratic identity. From the right, there was the brutal nativist cry of "Go back where you came from!" But from the left, there was its mirror-image: a gooey multicultural sense that immigrants didn't want liberal democratic values and should be exempted from them. Again and again, they described how at school they were treated as "the funny foreign child", and told to "explain their customs" to the class. It patronised them into alienation.

"Nobody ever said – you're equal to us, you're one of us, and we'll hold you to the same standards," says Husain. "Nobody had the courage to stand up for liberal democracy without qualms. When people like us at [Newham] College were holding events against women and against gay people, where were our college principals and teachers, challenging us?"

Without an identity, they created their own. It was fierce and pure and violent, and it admitted no doubt.

To my surprise, the ex-jihadis said their rage about Western foreign policy – which was real, and burning – emerged only after their identity crises, and as a result of it. They identified with the story of oppressed Muslims abroad because it seemed to mirror the oppressive disorientation they felt in their own minds.

Usman Raja, a bluff, buff boxer who begged to become a suicide bomber in the mid-1990s, tells me: "Your inner life is chaotic and you feel under threat the whole time. And then you're told by Islamists that life for Muslims everywhere is chaotic and under threat. It becomes bigger than you. It's about the world – and that's an amazing relief. The answer isn't inside your confused self. It's out there in the world."

...

Many of the ex-Islamists discovered they couldn't ignore the fact that whenever Islamists won a military victory, they didn't build a paradise, but hell.

At the same time, they began to balk at the mechanistic nature of Wahabism. Usman says he had become a "papier-mâché Muslim", defining his faith entirely by his actions, while being empty inside. "Wahabis are great at painting themselves [an Islamic] green on the outside, but when it comes to that internal aspect, it's not there. You pray five times a day, but why? Because God's told you to pray five times a day. You pay your charity – why? Because God's told you to pay your charity. This God of yours is telling you a lot. And why does he tell you to do that? Because if you don't do it, you'll end up in a fire. It's all based on being frightened. There's nothing to nourish you."

I strongly recommend reading the rest of the piece as well - especially the fourth act, where the shallowness of a jihadi is exposed: They hate because they are frightened, ignoring all common sense and obvious truths. Fortunately, it's for those very reasons that their kind will never win.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I cant read all of it, except what you have wrote, but I also had a thread here talking about a city in sweden and what has happened to it because of the islamic population

 

[Moonbeam]

The purpose of Islamic terrorism is to make people terrified of Muslim's, and want to take away the freedoms that make the West the West. Islamic terrorists want to instill the terrorist mentality into people in the West so they respond to Muslims with terrorism and create more hate so more Muslims will hate the West. It is working very well, actually, because so many folk in the West are worthless sniveling cowards who have no real interest if freedom at all if it means they have to feel insecure.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Islamic terrorists want to instill the terrorist mentality into people in the West so they respond to Muslims with terrorism and create more hate so more Muslims will hate the West.

Yes, that's what they do. I mean, they hate-us-so-we-hate-them-so-they-hate-us. It's the soap opera of civilizations.

A simple minded folk like me would probably think this is a war, which they conduct with the weapons available to them. They are not looking to shift the thinking of the West, they are looking to enslave it under the Sharia law. They have absolutely no troubles with the freedom in the West as it helps them, as minority groups, to spread their hatred and propaganda further, and under the civil liberties and privacy laws they can plot their evil deeds. A simple minded folk like me would think they don't give a fuck about what we do, we're all infidels anyway, and certainly don't plan anything beyond a bloodshed that will get worse and worse until they are met with their requirements - Islamic ruling on their host countries. But what the fuck do I know anyway?

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, that's what they do. I mean, they hate-us-so-we-hate-them-so-they-hate-us. It's the soap opera of civilizations.

A simple minded folk like me would probably think this is a war, which they conduct with the weapons available to them. They are not looking to shift the thinking of the West, they are looking to enslave it under the Sharia law. They have absolutely no troubles with the freedom in the West as it helps them, as minority groups, to spread their hatred and propaganda further, and under the civil liberties and privacy laws they can plot their evil deeds. A simple minded folk like me would think they don't give a fuck about what we do, we're all infidels anyway, and certainly don't plan anything beyond a bloodshed that will get worse and worse until they are met with their requirements - Islamic ruling on their host countries. But what the fuck do I know anyway?

What you call simple minded I call being a sniveling little coward. What kind of nut case is afraid of being enslaved under Sharia law. You're a fucking fruit cake.

Of course, I know that a simple minded, and may I add, naive person like me wouldn't have the tiny testicles required to actually imagine the truly titanic nature of the threat. I am sure San Francisco will go Islamic in the night, tonight, as I sleep. Oh whoa is me. The end is near.

 

[SamurAchzar]

What you call simple minded I call being a sniveling little coward. What kind of nut case is afraid of being enslaved under Sharia law. You're a fucking fruit cake.

Of course, I know that a simple minded, and may I add, naive person like me wouldn't have the tiny testicles required to actually imagine the truly titanic nature of the threat. I am sure San Francisco will go Islamic in the night, tonight, as I sleep. Oh whoa is me. The end is near.

You're very quick to dismiss the high percentage of Muslims looking to establish a Sharia law in Europe. Especially considering that due to the magnificent Europeran demographics, they will become a very large part - if not the majority - in two or three decades. Before that, they will harness electoral and political power and we're not very far from the Sharia law used in British courts to solve issues between Muslims.

Otherwise, I'm quite certain that if, on the evening of the September 10th, 2001, I asked you what are the odds Muslims will commit a terror act on US soil, killing 3000-odd Americans, you'd probably flaunt my tiny-weenie testicles. My testicles may, or may not be, small and insignificant inside my shriveled, collapsed scrotum, and yet I can guess your response, hinting at my cowardice and the fractional magnitude of my nutsack.
When a large enough group says again and again that they are going to enforce a new world order, and backs it with bold actions, I listen.

 

[Jaskalas]

I strongly recommend reading the rest of the piece as well - especially the fourth act, where the shallowness of a jihadi is exposed: They hate because they are frightened, ignoring all common sense and obvious truths. Fortunately, it's for those very reasons that their kind will never win.

They are winning Europe over in the maternity wards. Apparently it pays to be poor....

 

[Moonbeam]

They are winning Europe over in the maternity wards. Apparently it pays to be poor....

No it pays to have functioning balls.

 

[grebe925]

Children of immigrants are typically caught up between the pushes and pulls of a rigid home structure based on the mores of their home country and the liberal, no holds barred life of the West. This happens in non-Muslim immigrant cultures too but they don't run off and start plotting against the very place they call home. The big difference is the Wahabi strain of extremism that has been nurtured by the Saudi leaders over the decades with their oil money not only in the West, but also in other countries with a sizeable Muslim population. They basically made a pact with the devil by providing their extremist religious leaders resources to spread their poisonous strain of Islam anywhere but in Saudi Arabia. In the disgruntled and confused Muslim youth of the West, they found a ready source of cannon fodder to spread their mayhem, as alluded to in the article.

These whackos have destabilized Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Sudan and many other countries with sizeable Muslim populations by encouraging extremists. And the West is only finding out about it in the last few years. The way forward is to severely curtail immigration from third world countries, or at the very least educate new immigrants on how to successfully assimilate into liberal societies. Next is to choke off extremist organizations and rehabilitate the snakes they have nurtured in their belly while encouraging moderate leadership that is able to solve it's problems along with and not at the expense of the rest of society.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And yet our biggest problem is Indian Honour Culture but we can't talk about that because we owe India such a big apology.

Truth is, 65% of all refugees went to seek refuge in Europe, some in Britain but very few.

I don't know where the rest went but my guess is one went to the US and the rest to other nations nearby.

Sooo... if the US actually took responsibility for what they have caused, this problem wouldn't be a European problem.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Children of immigrants are typically caught up between the pushes and pulls of a rigid home structure based on the mores of their home country and the liberal, no holds barred life of the West. This happens in non-Muslim immigrant cultures too but they don't run off and start plotting against the very place they call home. The big difference is the Wahabi strain of extremism that has been nurtured by the Saudi leaders over the decades with their oil money not only in the West, but also in other countries with a sizeable Muslim population. They basically made a pact with the devil by providing their extremist religious leaders resources to spread their poisonous strain of Islam anywhere but in Saudi Arabia. In the disgruntled and confused Muslim youth of the West, they found a ready source of cannon fodder to spread their mayhem, as alluded to in the article.

These whackos have destabilized Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Sudan and many other countries with sizeable Muslim populations by encouraging extremists. And the West is only finding out about it in the last few years. The way forward is to severely curtail immigration from third world countries, or at the very least educate new immigrants on how to successfully assimilate into liberal societies. Next is to choke off extremist organizations and rehabilitate the snakes they have nurtured in their belly while encouraging moderate leadership that is able to solve it's problems along with and not at the expense of the rest of society.

I was with you until you started speaking Nazi, i don't speak Nazi.

 

[Double Trouble]

They win because the west is bound and determined to appease them in the name of multiculturalism and diversity.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

What you call simple minded I call being a sniveling little coward. What kind of nut case is afraid of being enslaved under Sharia law. You're a fucking fruit cake.

Are you saying that you have no problem being enslaved under Sharia law or that it will never happen in the first place?

Some clarification is in order here.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

They win because the west is bound and determined to appease them in the name of multiculturalism and diversity.

Actually, they lose because of democracy and freedom of religion (which in every civilised nation also means freedom of no religion).

Now i've heard the ultrarightists who are actually extreme leftists call for doing this and doing that to preserve our Christian heritage...

So we are stuck between two idiotic cults, on one hand we have those who wants to institutionalise sharia and on the other hand we have those who wants to intitutionalise the laws of Prince John.

I say fuck the lot of them and so do 99% of the immigrants and refugees, they didn't come here to relive what they escaped and most of this is just bullsheit.

I thought we had gone full circle now from the private cams that were actually counted as government cams to protect from crimes to this to the Iraqi thing to all of the other headline bullsheit...

But i'll await the day when we get something like warrantless wiretaps or allow our own nations citisens to be held indefinently and tortured, any form of the patriot act and so on and so forth.

Mostly i remember a thread that TruePaige posted where there was talk about cameras in private homes, well it turned out that it provided MORE freedom because it was a voluantary program for families who were at risk of losing their children to foster homes.

Even after that was settled there were about 50 posts saying how horrible Britain has become.

Truth is, there is no nation on this gods green earth as free as England.

 

[grebe925]

I was with you until you started speaking Nazi, i don't speak Nazi.

Yes, I know. Sorry I forgot to mention setting up the death camps.

At the end of the die, no one ties up immigrants in their homelands and brings them into the West as slaves. They come of their own accord. If they want to live like they did in their home country, perhaps it is better for them to stay there?

 

[Moonbeam]

Are you saying that you have no problem being enslaved under Sharia law or that it will never happen in the first place?

Some clarification is in order here.

Ah, somebody with some perception. I was dealing with the remote probability that the tiny number of Islamic extremists in the world would be any real threat, but I am not too worried about living under Sharia law either. As you may likely know, what Sharia law is to one society it is quite another to another. It gets interlarded with tribalism. Also, the external world and the rules that apply there have no effect on one's inner freedom. Some very great Islamic saints were slaves, outwardly.

My greater preference by far, however, would be to live under a secular democratic system where the rules aren't fixed by some absolute notion. And I feel that in the long run in the competition of ideas, our system will win. Like Obama and the founding fathers, I believe that rights are inalienable and can't be suppressed. Let me see if I can find again a statement on what Islam really is.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yes, I know. Sorry I forgot to mention setting up the death camps.

At the end of the die, no one ties up immigrants in their homelands and brings them into the West as slaves. They come of their own accord. If they want to live like they did in their home country, perhaps it is better for them to stay there?

I don't know where you live, but if there was an all out war where you live you might want to get out of there?

Now this is as basic as i can make it for your, obviously, extremely retarded Nazi arse and i hope you can understand these simple words.

Motion for ban.

 

[grebe925]

And yet our biggest problem is Indian Honour Culture but we can't talk about that because we owe India such a big apology.

Truth is, 65% of all refugees went to seek refuge in Europe, some in Britain but very few.

I don't know where the rest went but my guess is one went to the US and the rest to other nations nearby.

Sooo... if the US actually took responsibility for what they have caused, this problem wouldn't be a European problem.

The honor culture practice is prevalent most in Muslim societies because they are the most backward amongst immigrant cultures. Most honor killings are done by people with Muslim names because a woman is nothing but a piece of property in their eyes. And most of them can trace their roots to places like Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan. Very few to India.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No it pays to have functioning balls.

no, it pays (or doesn't) to have money. declining birth rate and wealth correlate very well. people with money want to spend it for themselves, and don't necessarily want to have children. if they do want children, they plan very carefully when and how many, and are more likely to delay having children.

why do you think japan and much of europe suffer negative birth rates? the US keeps a relatively stable population largely due to immigration.


aside from purposefully posting that just to generate responses, i would have expected you to know this MB.

 

[Moonbeam]

Online Library
Home : Sufi Library : In Islam, all mankind is one
In Islam, all mankind is one
From The Golden Words of a Sufi Sheikh, Word#648.

My son! This is a hadïth of the Rasülulläh (Sal.) about Islam:

Brothers in Islam! You who are Ïmän-Isläm! You must not see differences between yourselves and your neighbors. You must not discriminate against any religion. You must not oppress or harm any man, no matter what religion or race he may be. Islam is one and Allah is one; just as we in Islam see Allah as one, we must see all mankind as one.

All the prophets brought the words of Allah, and all the words they brought are true. Allah sent His messages through each of the prophets, and they brought His commandments step by step. In the revelations contained in the Qur’an, Allah has given the entirety of His teaching. The Qur’an is the ultimate and final teaching, showing everything in its fullness.

All the children of Adam (A.S.) are brothers and sisters. They are not different. Although they may stand on different steps of the teachings brought by the prophets in their respective times, you must not discriminate against any of them. You must not harass their places of worship, their bodies, or their hearts. You must protect them as you would protect your own life.

To comfort the hunger of your neighbor, no matter who he is or what religion he belongs to, is Islam. When someone dies, to join together and give him a decent burial is Islam. To realize the pain and suffering of others and offer your hands in assistance, helping to alleviate their suffering, is Islam.

To see division is not Islam. To see other men as different is not Islam. In this world and the next, there must be no prejudice in our hearts, for all will come together on the Day of Reckoning and the Day of Judgment. All of us will come together in heaven. Therefore, we must not see any differences or create any divisions here. Where Allah does not see a difference, we must not see a difference. We must not despise anyone whom Allah loves—and Allah loves everyone. He belongs equally to everyone, just as Islam belongs equally to everyone. Islam is unity, not division.

Hurting another is not Islam. Failing to comfort the hunger of your neighbor is not Islam. The purity of Islam is to avoid hurting others; you must regard others as you regard yourself. You must accept Allah’s word totally. There must be no discrimination in your heart against the children of Islam.

You who are Islam must understand what is haläl and what is haräm, what is permissible and what is forbidden. You must understand that there is only One worthy of worship. You must understand Qiyämah, the Day of Reckoning, and the Day of Judgment.

To understand this world and the next world is Islam. Because Islam is the wealth of grace, you must use that grace to wash and comfort the hearts of others. To truly understand this and see all lives as your own life, without any differences, is the way of Islam. To see your neighbor as yourself, to heal the suffering of others, to share food from the same plate in harmony and peace, to live unified in food and in prayer, in happiness and in sorrow, is the way of Islam. To live separated and divided is not Islam. You must reflect on this.

O you who have faith! Do not compare anything to Allah. Do not hold anything equal to Allah. Do not make distinctions between men; king and beggar must be equal in your sight. There must be no difference between rich and poor. No one is rejected by Islam. Islam is one. You must realize this.

This is what the Rasülulläh (Sal.) has said. He has given countless ahädïth with his divine lips of grace, from the flower of his divine mouth, his mouth of faith, his mouth of Allah’s grace, and his mouth of Allah’s divine knowledge.

O you who have received the wealth of faith! May you understand and act with the clarity of these teachings.

M. R. Bawa Muhaiyaddeen

 

[grebe925]

I don't know where you live, but if there was an all out war where you live you might want to get out of there?

Now this is as basic as i can make it for your, obviously, extremely retarded Nazi arse and i hope you can understand these simple words.

Motion for ban.

On the one hand, you claim that they should be let in on humanitarian grounds. On the other, once they land in stable countries, they should not let go of the mentality that bred war in the first place, which is the illiterate nonsense that passes off for immigrant rights in the West?

Your call for my ban is very typical of the "thin skin when I'm criticized, thick skin when I criticize" mentality that brings out violence at the drop of a hat in muslim societies.

 

[Moonbeam]

no, it pays (or doesn't) to have money. declining birth rate and wealth correlate very well. people with money want to spend it for themselves, and don't necessarily want to have children. if they do want children, they plan very carefully when and how many, and are more likely to delay having children.

why do you think japan and much of europe suffer negative birth rates? the US keeps a relatively stable population largely due to immigration.


aside from purposefully posting that just to generate responses, i would have expected you to know this MB.

I would have expected you to not only know that I know this but that I also know that a few generations down the line and more wealth and all these large immigrant families will be small as well. And not only that but the women will have embraced western education and favor sexual equality to boot.

 

[Moonbeam]

On the one hand, you claim that they should be let in on humanitarian grounds. On the other, once they land in stable countries, they should not let go of the mentality that bred war in the first place, which is the illiterate nonsense that passes off for immigrant rights in the West?

Your call for my ban is very typical of the "thin skin when I'm criticized, thick skin when I criticize" mentality that brings out violence at the drop of a hat in muslim societies.

You live in the West. When are you going to drop the illiterate nonsense that pervades your thinking. I guess, just like them, when you actually realize you're ignorant.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The honor culture practice is prevalent most in Muslim societies because they are the most backward amongst immigrant cultures. Most honor killings are done by people with Muslim names because a woman is nothing but a piece of property in their eyes. And most of them can trace their roots to places like Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan. Very few to India.

And yet 98% of all honour killings in the UK are Indian culture killings.

Just so you know it, the Hinus ruled the largest terrorist organisation on earth until GW decided to expand Al Quaida and it's sub divisions, it was known as the LTTE and they did a LOT of honor assasinations, the Muslims are STILL trying to catch up to them and even when they have, they have less honor murders than Christianity.

Obviously you don't live in Britain, i do, but it doesn't matter since these are all available figures, in my home town more people have been killed by christians in terror bombings than by any other religious sect, that goes for most of the world too. In Britain as a whole, the problem with marriage is PREFUCKINGDOMINANTLY one where an Indian girl wants to marry someone other than her parents have picked for her. (She'll marry who they tell her or be killed or disfigured for life, most likely be pushed off of a balcony in a building wher many Indians live and no one saw anything.

I am not saying sheit about immigrating to a Muslim nation, that wasn't even on board of this discussion before your sorry Nazist arse decided that that was how you could win an argument.

I repeat my motion for ban of an obvious Nazist.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

On the one hand, you claim that they should be let in on humanitarian grounds. On the other, once they land in stable countries, they should not let go of the mentality that bred war in the first place, which is the illiterate nonsense that passes off for immigrant rights in the West?

Your call for my ban is very typical of the "thin skin when I'm criticized, thick skin when I criticize" mentality that brings out violence at the drop of a hat in muslim societies.

I don't understand your point at all?

Immigrant rights has to do with the right to live safely for some and to return, (it's in the live and return statue, i used to be a UN soldier before i was a UK SAS soldier, i know the statues by heart.) once it's safe to do so.

This isn't fucking rocket science, even a Nazist like you could skip one Sieg Heil and think about it just for that one second.

I don't call for your ban for critisising me, i call for your ban because you have nothing to add but Nazi propaganda.

And believe you me, if a Muslim should start advocating stoning or any of the Sharia laws, i'd call for his banning too, you can trust me on that, after all, i'm a Jew.