Ex-Nvidia,3dfx,S3,ATI,etc Power user's review of Radeon

audreymi

Member
Nov 5, 2000
66
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Pros: Outstanding image quality! FAST!
Cons: Included DVD software may be tricky
install.


Right off, let me say that the Radeon has the best image quality I
have seen from any 2D or 3D video card. I'm a power user and get a
chance to look at a lot of hardware - Nvidia, 3dfx, S3, ATI, etc. - but
ATI really blows away the competition this time around with the
Radeon.

I was so impressed by this graphics card that I am writing a very
long review, so relax and send the kiddies to bed!

My initial inclination was to go for an Nvidia Geforce GTS card
because of their mature drivers and high frame rates with 3D games.
The latest Detonator release drivers have been rated extremely fast
but also seem to have been released prematurely as the systems I
saw them on had a variety of video stability problems. Looking over a
number of forum posts to get other user opinions made me realize
the extent of the problems that had cropped up. I personally found
the imaging of the card to be really washed out, too. Match it with a
dull Compaq monitor and it was basically like using a monochrome
card. ;-)

I also briefly considered the 3dfx 5500 card for Glide compatibility
with some older games like Unreal, but found it was over my $200
budget. Beyond the Glide factor (Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Deus
Ex run best under 3dfx's proprietary Glide API) the only real
advantage offered by a Voodoo card was above average
antialiasing (smooths out the image, but at the cost of a severe drop
in frame rates.)If I played flight simulator or driving games a lot I
might have considered it a bit more appealing with the better AA, but
I like FPS (First Person Shooter) games a lot more and AA hits
frame rate too much there. The 3D imaging was fine and 2D imaging
was really good, so it is still a viable choice if you can get it for $100
less than the current price.

I started seriously considering the Radeon when I looked at
Microsoft's upcoming DirectX 8.0 release and noticed that ATI was
putting together a 100% compliant DirectX 8.0 feature set with their
new Radeon.

This is important folks because there are only two major standards
that 3d video cards have to tackle these days - OGL and DirectX.

OGL is older and to maintain ongoing compatibility in the professional
market doesn't change much from year to year. DirectX, however, is
highly evolutionary and implements new features regularly, so you
have to be aware of future compatibility with your video drivers and
video hardware.

There are no DirectX8 games right now, but the first ones should be
released in the Christmas season or early next year. I like to keep
my hardware purchases for at least 1 - 2 years and the Radeon's
complete compliance will mean some future proofing. BTW, no other
current card has this level of compliance.

That said, I haven't been a fan of ATI video products before - they
weren't very competitive on rendering speed, they lacked stability
and did little in the way of driver updates. Plus they were targeting
mass consumers anyway and I always liked to go a little more
toward performance at a reasonable price.

I paid $200 for the 32MB version of the card at Multiwave which was
right in line with my budget. I understand that some retailers now
have a $50 rebate going for a net price of around $150 - this is an
excellent deal!

I chose the 32MB DDR version for a couple of reasons:

1. It is substantially cheaper than the 64MB version
2. It uses DDR (Double Data Rate) memory to avoid a common
bottleneck (Hint: avoid any SDR (Single Data Rate) memory versions
unless you are really broke)
3. 32MB is plenty for current games and the vast majority of games
coming out next year. Also, the special texture compression features
of the Radeon makes it much more future proof than other 32MB
cards.

On the negative side, the clock and memory speed of the 32MB card
is somewhat less than the 64MB version. If you have to have the
ultimate right now, have a 21" monitor, and need to run very high
resolution 3D gaming - go right ahead and spend the money for the
183Mhz rated 64MB DDR version. Otherwise, I doubt you will notice
any difference.

I was installing the card in a one year old 550Mhz Athlon based PC
with a 250 watt power supply. Those of you with Athlon systems
know that they draw a lot of power and everything you add had better
be power efficient or you will start having "unexplainable" system
problems. The Radeon draws very little power and runs very cool -
Cool!

Actual installation of the card was very smooth. I made sure to use
Control Panel to revert to straight VGA, uninstalled all of the 3dx
drivers, shut down the PC, pulled the Voodoo card I had in there and
then inserted the Radeon. Rebooted to the VGA desktop and ran the
Radeon install disk. At this point I was pleasantly astonished at the
quality of the 2D image!

Let's face it, most of us spend a lot more time looking at the Windows
desktop and 2d applications than we do playing games. The 2d
image of the Radeon is outstanding!

I then started playing a number of 3D accelerated games I had
viewed with other cards and they were each a lot better looking, too!
ATI really came through on image quality with the Radeon!

The card is plenty fast - each game ran smoothly and had a very
consistent and high frame rate (a lot of cards go fast then slow down,
go fast then slow down.)

You can easily manipulate a lot of the performance/feature
parameters through the Control Panel's Monitor settings. You can
also use the ATI preconfigured Performance and Quality settings for
a quick comparison of image quality versus frame rates. I chose the
Quality settings after a few experiments and my comments are based
on these parameters. FYI, I also maintained a 32 bit color depth -
this card has no speed advantage in 16 bit over 32 bit depth, so
keep the color quality.

Balancing the good with the bad... I also wanted to install the ATI
Multimedia Center CD to play DVDs, CDs, etc. The installation of this
free software went smoothly except that when all was done I couldn't
get past the startup screens on the DVDs I tried playing. Since I
don't give up that easily I went the extra mile and finally got to a
working configuration - to save you some problems I'll recommend
the following:

1. If you have another DVD software player installed you may have
to uninstall it to get the ATI player to work. Most DVD players cannot
co-exist with each other, so pick your favorite and stick with it. The
ATI player is a Cinemaster version which takes full advantage of the
ATI hardware and thus is a very good choice to keep. (If you have a
very fast computer (700Mhz+) you may also consider buying the
latest version of WinDVD. The other players on the market right now
use only a portion of the Radeon hardware feature set and thus will
tax your PC to the point where you will not be able to multitask at all.)

2. Make sure you have UDMA enabled for your DVD drive.

3. The ATI player also may have conflicts with packet writing
CDROM burner software. In my case it was cequadrant. I had to
uninstall it to make the ATI DVD player work. I recommend you use
software like Nero for much happier co-existence and anyway it is a
better program.

4. You can get enhanced DVD peformance by installing a copy of
DVDGenie. Not necessary but then we ARE looking for performance,
aren't we?

I did not see a lot of image quality difference between the DVD
players, but the ATI player did run more smoothly once I finally got it
running.

I have read that some VIA AGP chipsets are having problems with
the Radeon, but if your firmware/BIOS is up-to-date you shouldn't
have any problems. Check with your motherboard manufacturer or
the support section on the ATI website to be sure.

While overall image quality was the best I have seen, I did observe
some texture tearing in games under some settings and I did have
some tiling problems using texture compression settings in moving
from one graphics program to another. This is definitely not typical
use so you most likely won't encounter it, and future driver releases
will probably address minor discrepencies of this type anyway. Keep
your drivers up-to-date by downloading updates from ATI's web
site!

If you would like the latest info from bleeding edge users of the
Radeon, check out http://www.rage3d.com

In summary, I highly recommend the ATI Radeon 32MB DDR for its
great image quality, FAST speed, loads of future proofing features,
and stable early drivers. This is the best card for the money right
now!

Don't forget to get the latest drivers and check out the product
support info at the ATI website to insure a smooth running product
with peak performance. But then again, you should be doing this with
everything you buy, shouldn't you?

Purchase Price: $200

Recommend to other potential buyers? Yes
Recommended as a gift for: Hardcore Gamers

----------> Above Review quoted from
www.epinions.com user review <----------------

Apologize for the shadow copy, but the lack of interesting
posts here this Sunday and this great review finally convince me to go &quot;radeon&quot;. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
 

HappyGamer2

Banned
Jun 12, 2000
1,441
0
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lol, I have radeon 32 MB DDR and a Voodoo5 5500 agp, the Radeon is a nice card for the money, but I prefer the voodoo5.
 

SleepyTim

Member
Oct 27, 2000
106
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0
The Radeon's are excellent, and they are the best all around gaming cards on the market today. Who knows about tomorrow though, but that's always the case with any hardware. And while the Radeons are not fully DX8 compliant, they certainly have much more DX8 supported features than any other current card, as well as some important ATI technology like HyperZ. The next generation of cards (Radeon2, NV20, G800) will have even more DX8 support, but the Radeons will keep you very happy, and last a good while. They really are great cards. :)

I'm looking forward to what ATI, Nvidia, Matrox, and 3dfx show at Comdex. That should give us a pretty good glimpse of the near future.

 

Priit

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2000
1,337
1
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Is Radeon compatible with linux (e.g. XFree) yet ? Until it isn't, It's just as good as Trident ISA v-card w/512Kb mem. to me (but costs 1000 times more). Is 2D quality of Radeon _REALLY_ better than Matrox cards have ?
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
audreymi, don't press enter after every line of text. It makes the lines wrap around prematurely and it makes it very difficult to read.

Nice review though. :)
 

valkyrie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,096
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After playing with the Radeon AIW and my faithful(?) G400Max the past few weeks, I have to repond here. The 2D of the Matrox still blows away the ATI. The text of the G400 is still much, much sharper than the ATI. While the ATI is certainly better than any Nvidia card I've seen, the G400 is still the top dog as far as quality in 2D. I keep hearing reviews of &quot;2D quality to rival Matrox&quot; but I have to honestly admit that that is not the case. I run two ADI microscan 6p's side by side, and I honestly WANTED the ATI to be better (or at least equal), but it wasn't. So, my Radeon AIW goes up for sale and I stick with the G400 to await the next claimed 2D champ.
 

GuardianAli

Senior member
Sep 6, 2000
534
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Supposedly thge Matrox G800 is coming out late this year or very early next year.

Problem is it was suppose to come out 6 months ago and thus will not be on par with current cards or future cards...

HOWEVER it will defiently be ALOT better in 3d department than the ol d400 and be actually playable in quake3 and thus with nice framerates and still keep the great 2d quality that some love so much.
 

PeAK

Member
Sep 25, 2000
183
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0

The 2D quality of Radeon is close a notch lower than
the Matrox but a future driver release will be available
to wring out the last drop of detail out of the image.
Preliminary testing by beta testers indicates
overall improvement virtually all systems.

If you want further reviews
commenting on the 2D quality.
 

valkyrie

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,096
0
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You know, I really wish that were true, but I can't bank on it. To my eyes, the difference is quite clear (well, a tad fuzzy in the case of the ATI). :)

I still wish I could figure out how a second-rate company like Matrox has perfected 2D display to such a degree since the original Millenium, and none of the other companies have seemed to figure out how to get up to that level. While I have no doubt the 3d quality of many of the other cards may beat the Matrox, the 2D is unrivaled. Nothing I have ever seen makes me go &quot;gee, I wonder if that's a Matrox.&quot; I just know. No questions asked.

I hate to advertise for Matrox cause I think they're company on the whole has problems, but when it comes to display quality, they have it when it counts.
 

pidge

Banned
Oct 10, 1999
1,519
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The ATI Radeon is one of the years most over hyped video cards. Sure it has great 2D quality but that is where the hype ends. It offers texture compression but only in Direct 3D via DXTC. HyperZ is fine and it is a great innovation but it only works in OpenGL and not Direct 3D. Unreal Tournament plays like crap on my ATI AIW Radeon. I have it overclocked to 183/183. Since HyperZ does not work in D3D, it really blows on UT. It very choppy during heavy intense scenes. Under Quake III though, it does play really nice. The major games play fine but if you play as many different games as I do, you will see many D3D problems with the ATI Radeon, especially if you have FSAA enabled. I have a Geforce 256 and Geforce 2 GTS. The Geforce is blurry and kind of faded looking but the Geforce 2 GTS that I have is near in 2D quality as the ATI AIW Radeon. ATI has the luxury of making their own video cards. NVIDIA only makes the chips. Video card manufacturers decide how much filtering there is in their cards. So 2D quality varies by the card you have. But the ATI AIW Radeon does look sharper in 2D.

One major problem I have with my ATI AIW is really starting to annoy the heck out of me. I think this is specific to my system because I haven't heard people mention this before. After about 1 hour, my system locks up if I am watching TV with my ATI AIW Radeon. It doesn't do it if I am playing games or browsing the web with the TV feature off. I don't know what to do. I wish there were newer ATI AIW Radeon drivers available. If I was to go back to my Geforce 2 GTS, how much would I lose in features if I was to install the ATI TV wonder compared to the ATI AIW RAdeon? I really like watching TV on my PC and capturing video in MPEG2 format. Would I still be able to do so with the ATI TV Wonder?

DVD was really nice as well but looked like crap compared to my Sony stand alone DVD player. My Matrox G400 looks better on TV than the ATI AIW Radeon. But Matrox has always had the best TV out IMHO. I used the PowerDVD software on my Geforce 2 GTS. I don't really notice any quality difference on my PC with PowerDVD and Geforce 2 GTS and the ATI AIW Radeon except for a bit less CPU resource being used by the ATI AIW Radeon compared to the Geforce 2 GTS.

One thing I enjoy about the Geforce 2 GTS is that NVIDIA uses Unified drivers. One thing that left me dissapointed with ATI is their lack of support for their drivers which it seems like they tried to focus on with the ATI Radeon series. However, their older products leave much to be desired as far as drivers. NVIDIA's unified drivers ensure that my current video cards will be supported for years to come.

One last gripe. ATI's SPDIF connector does not work in Windows ME. If I was using my PC to play DVD's all the time, I would be terribly disappointed, especially since I have such a nice stereo system to compliment my stand alone DVD player. Their are other gripes I have as well but they are minor (forcing Z buffer to 16 bit to improve performance, lack of sigificant performance boost past 183MHz speeds meaning the ATI AIW Radeon core runs out of gas at 183-190MHz, still doubts that their next driver will be fully DX8 complaint since their current drivers seem incomplete, the most annoying still being that HyperZ is disabled in Direct 3D since most of my games are in Direct 3D, I tried enabling HyperZ and it really fudged up all of my D3D games). Anyways, those are my thoughts on the ATI AIW Radeon. If you want TV tuner capabilities and video capture, get the ATI AIW Radeon. If you want complete drivers with the best performance on your games and less problems with them, get the Geforce 2 GTS or better.

BTW, I have a Pentium III 700Mhz with an Asus CUSL2 mobo and Sony G400 monitor, 256MB of PC133 memory and 300watt Antec power supply running an all SCSI system.
 

Compellor

Senior member
Oct 1, 2000
889
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pidge:

It's funny how I was just complaining about this in another thread the other day... Thanks for setting the record straight on ATi's driver support. Everyone here keeps saying how they've improved so much, yet, you provide the perfect example of what I was trying to explain (since I don't own any current ATi products). Thanks for your comments.

For gaming, I recommend a GeForce 2 GTS or Voodoo 5 -- depending on your gaming preferences. For TV, I recommend a Hauppauge Win TV card. You won't be getting any lockups using that card. The ATi TV Wonder is crap, because I owned one, and I know the situation with the drivers: they're still buggy after a year and half of the cards' release! It looks to me like the Radeon AIW is suffering the same symptoms. :frown:
 

Taz4158

Banned
Oct 16, 2000
4,501
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The ATI Radeon is one of the years most over hyped video cards. Sure it has great 2D quality but that is where the hype ends. It offers texture compression but only in Direct 3D via DXTC. HyperZ is fine and it is a great innovation but it only works in OpenGL and not Direct 3D. Unreal Tournament plays like crap on my ATI AIW Radeon. I have it overclocked to 183/183. Since HyperZ does not work in D3D, it really blows on UT.

Not exactly sure where you got your misinformation but HyperZ 100% and COMPLETELY works in D3D as well as OpenGL. Of this there is no doubt.


DVD was really nice as well but looked like crap compared to my Sony stand alone DVD player. My Matrox G400 looks better on TV than the ATI AIW Radeon. But Matrox has always had the best TV out IMHO. I used the PowerDVD software on my Geforce 2 GTS. I don't really notice any quality difference on my PC with PowerDVD and Geforce 2 GTS and the ATI AIW Radeon except for a bit less CPU resource being used by the ATI AIW Radeon compared to the Geforce 2 GTS.


There is nothing subpar about the DVD playback. In multimedia make sure adaptive deinterlacing is checked.

Try these settings. Beyond that I have no idea what you've done to your card.
REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\ATI Technologies\Driver\0000\atidxhal]
&quot;DisableHierarchicalZ&quot;=&quot;0&quot;
&quot;EnableWaitUntilIdxTriList2&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;Vsync&quot;=&quot;0&quot;
&quot;AntiAlias&quot;=&quot;0&quot;
&quot;ZFormats&quot;=&quot;15&quot;
&quot;ExportCompressedTex&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;DisableHyperZ&quot;=&quot;0&quot;
&quot;FastZClearEnabled &quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;TableFogEnable&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;WFogEnable&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;ZFogEnable&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;TCL&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;TCLEnableVertexBlend2Optimize&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;TCLEnableVertexBlendUseProjMat&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;TCLEnableBackFaceCulling&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
&quot;RasterGuardbandEnable&quot;=&quot;1&quot;
 

Taz4158

Banned
Oct 16, 2000
4,501
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pidge:

It's funny how I was just complaining about this in another thread the other day... Thanks for setting the record straight on ATi's driver support. Everyone here keeps saying how they've improved so much, yet, you provide the perfect example of what I was trying to explain (since I don't own any current ATi products). Thanks for your comments.


5 driver updates in 2 months is more than adequate. There is no NEED to release every second day like nVidia because the drivers are stable and solid.If they're not stable in Pidge's system they are in 1000s of others. Remember just how &quot;stable&quot; the Geforce was when it was released? I do because I lived through it and I can tell you the Radeon and ATI is far more stable than the Geforce was. Once again as you acknowledge you have no firsthand knowledge. Now jumping into this thread because there was one negative post versus all the other good ones shows just how anxious you are to find ANYTHING negative about ATI. Get over it. Enjoy your nVidia and Radeon owners will enjoy our card.
 

pidge

Banned
Oct 10, 1999
1,519
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DisableHyperZ&quot;=&quot;0&quot;

That enables HyperZ but in the registry, it is set to &quot;1&quot; which disbles HyperZ in D3D. When I enable it it corrupts the graphics in many games like Rainbow 6, Winbench, Pod Racer, NFS: PU, etc

The DVD feature is not that big of a concern to me since I have a stand alone Sony DVD player. I just believe the DVD quality of my matrox G400 was much clearer and sharper than the ATI DVD on my TV. To be honest, I haven't tried my Geforce 2 GTS on my TV with PowerDVD but I am sure the ATI beats it in this category. To bad Matrox doesn't support motion compensation. I liked watching dvd on my TV while working on my PC but it used to much CPU resource. It wasn't a feasable option because of this.

Many people seem to enjoy their NVIDIA cards while others enjoy their Radeon. To each his own. I just don't think the Radeon deserves the praise that its been getting. Maybe for an average joe, they are o.k. but for someone that use their PC alot for many reasons, they leave much to be desired, just like other video cards.
 

SleepyTim

Member
Oct 27, 2000
106
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0
Pidge is in the definate minority here, and many people feel the Radeon is the most significant card released this year, and deserves the hype. And most Radeon owners are very happy. But I think Pidge is just unhappy, and that's ok. It happens. I don't think he is trying to trash talk though, and he is probably a good guy.

However, Compellor is simply......EDIT- I was not as understanding as I should have been.

Point- ATI's current Win98 drivers for the Radeon are fantastic and easily as good or better than any other card's drivers were at the same time in their cycle. In fact, the Radeon's launch peformance was the best launch of any card this year. And the latest Win2K (the only weakness) beta'a are looking great, and hopefully will solve the Win2k issues with Radeon. But the Win98 drivers are solid, and have been all along, period.

Point- No matter what product you are talking about, there will always be someone that has problems with it. Hardware, Software, Cars, TV's, Stereo's, etc. There are some people that claim that Lexus and BMW suck because they just happen to have some problems with them. You get the point.

EDIT- I have deleted most of my post because I should not be arguing, even though I was correct. :D

 

Compellor

Senior member
Oct 1, 2000
889
0
0
SleepyTim:

I made a few posts in one thread condemning ATi's past driver record -- that was it. Where else have you seen me posting &quot;many&quot; objective remarks toward ATi?

I make ONE small response here, and you take the time to explain my current state of mind or intention -- which, really has nothing to do with computer hardware. Makes me wonder what kind of person you are. <compellor shudders>

Question: How is commenting on ATi's past/current driver situation considered &quot;trashing&quot; a product? It's a known fact. I've seen many threads on these forums where people are complaining about the AIW/TV-Wonder. I owned the TV Wonder, so, how can I NOT know what I'm talking about? Do you own one?

If you can't take the negativity, then I suggest you just move on. People are always going to bitch here about something -- no matter what it is. If ya don't like it, ignore it like everyone else does. Do you see me defending anything or anyone here? You're the one that lacks the discipline to not just ignore the negative comments other people here make.

Oh, you make nice &quot;assumptions&quot; about me, but have absolutely nothing to back it up.
 

pidge

Banned
Oct 10, 1999
1,519
0
0
I don't mean to trash the Radeon. I just think it isn't as great as people make it out to be. Its like when I got my ATI Rage 128 card. I bought it because reviews on the web made it seem like the best video card for gamers. Great Benchmarks in Quake III Arena. Great 3D Winbench scores. But as we all know, there were alot of problems with the drivers. I am just saying, it aint the perfect card as some people claim. Its a nice balance for the typical average Joe but for someone like me, the drivers are in complete and ATI shouldn't be heralded as high as it has been the past couple of months. I have 7 computers at home and I really tested the drivers well on the ATI AIW Radeon. I won't bash someone who has a Radeon because it is a very nice all around card, however someone who praises it like its the best card on the market bare none and claiming it blows away the Geforce 2 GTS in everything is either clueless or works for ATI. Radeon owners, the best card for your is the card that pleases you the most and you seem pleased so I guess you got a good purchase. I think I was happier with the Geforce 2 GTS however I got hooked on the TV tuner features. I don't have the money to buy an ATI TV Wonder or the 3dfx tuner card right now but in a couple of months, the ATI AIW Radeon is popping out of my system.
 

SleepyTim

Member
Oct 27, 2000
106
0
0
Like I said, I think Pidge is a decent guy, however he is definately in the minority with his opinions about the Radeon. I do agree with one thing he said though. Saying a card is the &quot;best all-around card on the market hands down&quot; is one thing, but saying &quot;blows cardX away&quot; is completely different.

As for Compellor, I stand by everything I said about him. Again, it's humurous that a so-called happy GeForce owner is continuing to make posts about a product and drivers he has never used, and using a past product and past drivers to base his claims on. Claims that have been proven wrong by the overwhelming majority of reviews, tests, users, and system builders. Bottom line is he has never used a Radeon. He has never used the Radeon drivers. End of story.

Like I said before there will always be some people that are unhappy with any product. And there will also be some people that have problems with any product.

On a side note, Compellor must not remember that I am a fan of Nvidia, ATI, and 3DFX, and have owned products from all of them. And I suspect that he would faint if he new that I had purchased an Ultra and a Radeon, because he can't understand that it's possible for a person to actually like more than one card from more than one company.

I would also like to say that ATI's driver problems with a past card does not change the fact that the Radeon is a great card with great performance, very solid Win98 drivers, and improving Win2K drivers. Just like the GeForce1 launch (which was a compatablity disaster for Nvidia in case you have selective memory) does not affect the GeForce2 which launched very solid. Just like the Voodoo5 6000 being cancelled will be forgotten if the next 3DFX product (if there is one) is solid. There has been plenty of mistakes and problems for all these companies. But I don't purchase the past, I purchase the present.

As for Compellor's smart remarks about people not being able to take negative comments. Well, first, the person making them should have experience with the actual product, which you do NOT. Also, I have never ripped on ANY card from ANY company. I have given facts, as well as honest opinions. I have even spoke up for all three (3DFX, ATI, and Nvidia) when people attacked them. My record is clean.

EDIT- I have edited the most heated comments, and the part about the phone call. I should know better than to argue. :)

 

DominoBoy

Member
Nov 3, 2000
122
0
0
WOOHOO!!!!

SleepyTim is making a challenge to Compellor and I bet Compellor is too chicken to take it. I have seen Tim's posts and he has no favorite card, and he has said good stuff about all of them, so I trust him. But Compellor had made lots of stupid posts about any card that doesn't say Nvidia on it. Compellor is just one of those guys that puts down anything that he doesn't have. Compellor is an idiot. What kind of idiot says things about stuff he has never even tried? An idiot I guess. ROFL!!!!!!!

Hey Compellor if you don't have the balls to call Tim then call me. I will learn your punk ass a few things. :) WOOHOO!!!!!