"Everything that the Georgians left behind was American"

[wwswimming]

"Tskhinvali, South Ossetia -- On the sunny afternoon of August 14, a Russian army colonel named Igor Konashenko is standing triumphantly at a street corner at the northern edge of Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, his forearm bandaged from a minor battle injury. The spot marks the furthest point of the Georgian army's advance before it was summarily crushed by the Russians a few days earlier. "Twelve Georgian battalions invaded Tskhinvali, backed by columns of tanks, armored personal carriers, jets, and helicopters," he says, happily waving at the wreckage, craters, and bombed-out buildings around us. "You see how well they fought, with all their great American training -- they abandoned their tanks in the heat of the battle and fled."

Konashenko pulls a green compass out of his shirt pocket and opens it. It's a U.S. military model. "This is a little trophy -- a gift from one of my soldiers," he says. "Everything that the Georgians left behind, I mean everything, was American. All the guns, grenades, uniforms, boots, food rations -- they just left it all. Our boys stuffed themselves on the food," he adds slyly. "It was tasty." The booty, according to Konashenko, also included 65 intact tanks outfitted with the latest NATO and American (as well as Israeli) technology."

http://www.alternet.org/story/...f_the_american_empire/

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: wwswimming
"Tskhinvali, South Ossetia -- On the sunny afternoon of August 14, a Russian army colonel named Igor Konashenko is standing triumphantly at a street corner at the northern edge of Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, his forearm bandaged from a minor battle injury. The spot marks the furthest point of the Georgian army's advance before it was summarily crushed by the Russians a few days earlier. "Twelve Georgian battalions invaded Tskhinvali, backed by columns of tanks, armored personal carriers, jets, and helicopters," he says, happily waving at the wreckage, craters, and bombed-out buildings around us. "You see how well they fought, with all their great American training -- they abandoned their tanks in the heat of the battle and fled."

Konashenko pulls a green compass out of his shirt pocket and opens it. It's a U.S. military model. "This is a little trophy -- a gift from one of my soldiers," he says. "Everything that the Georgians left behind, I mean everything, was American. All the guns, grenades, uniforms, boots, food rations -- they just left it all. Our boys stuffed themselves on the food," he adds slyly. "It was tasty." The booty, according to Konashenko, also included 65 intact tanks outfitted with the latest NATO and American (as well as Israeli) technology."

http://www.alternet.org/story/...f_the_american_empire/

Training is key..

 

[Triumph]

I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately the Georgian debacle is parented by another mentally unstable idiot by the name of Dick Cheney and with the help of Condi Rice.

As was the rape of Lebanon, the invasion of Iraq, and countless other backfires GWB&co managed to engineer.

Will the mentally unstable nation please stand up, or can we in the US even stand up as we are on the verge of economic collapse and saddled with two military quagmires?

While the Russian bear won this round without really committing itself. Who outsmarted who? The Russians learned their lessons in Afghanistan and the US
has learned nothing from Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately the Georgian debacle is parented by another mentally unstable idiot by the name of Dick Cheney and with the help of Condi Rice.

As was the rape of Lebanon, the invasion of Iraq, and countless other backfires GWB&co managed to engineer.

Will the mentally unstable nation please stand up, or can we in the US even stand up as we are on the verge of economic collapse and saddled with two military quagmires?

While the Russian bear won this round without really committing itself. Who outsmarted who? The Russians learned their lessons in Afghanistan and the US
has learned nothing from Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.

Umm, yeah.

:roll:

If you'd bother to break out of your sad little world where BDS is your primary disorder you'd find out that it was Clinton who got the ball rolling with arms sales and training to Georgia.

Text

And next to the US, who do you think is number 2 in supplying weapons to countries around the world? Surprise, it's Russia. So they have little room to talk since many of the weapons we recover in places like Afghanistan are of Russian origin.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately the Georgian debacle is parented by another mentally unstable idiot by the name of Dick Cheney and with the help of Condi Rice.

As was the rape of Lebanon, the invasion of Iraq, and countless other backfires GWB&co managed to engineer.

Will the mentally unstable nation please stand up, or can we in the US even stand up as we are on the verge of economic collapse and saddled with two military quagmires?

While the Russian bear won this round without really committing itself. Who outsmarted who? The Russians learned their lessons in Afghanistan and the US
has learned nothing from Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.

Umm, yeah.

:roll:

If you'd bother to break out of your sad little world where BDS is your primary disorder you'd find out that it was Clinton who got the ball rolling with arms sales and training to Georgia.

Text

And next to the US, who do you think is number 2 in supplying weapons to countries around the world? Surprise, it's Russia. So they have little room to talk since many of the weapons we recover in places like Afghanistan are of Russian origin.

Except in Afghanistan they use Russian weapons becuase that is what the Russians left there too.

 

[StageLeft]

65 new tanks left behind? Fvcking sad, you don't give monkeys weapons. Train them.

Also, the heading of the article you linked to is lawls, surely an article with such a heading is meaningless.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately the Georgian debacle is parented by another mentally unstable idiot by the name of Dick Cheney and with the help of Condi Rice.

As was the rape of Lebanon, the invasion of Iraq, and countless other backfires GWB&co managed to engineer.

Will the mentally unstable nation please stand up, or can we in the US even stand up as we are on the verge of economic collapse and saddled with two military quagmires?

While the Russian bear won this round without really committing itself. Who outsmarted who? The Russians learned their lessons in Afghanistan and the US
has learned nothing from Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam.

Umm, yeah.

:roll:

If you'd bother to break out of your sad little world where BDS is your primary disorder you'd find out that it was Clinton who got the ball rolling with arms sales and training to Georgia.

Text

And next to the US, who do you think is number 2 in supplying weapons to countries around the world? Surprise, it's Russia. So they have little room to talk since many of the weapons we recover in places like Afghanistan are of Russian origin.

Except in Afghanistan they use Russian weapons becuase that is what the Russians left there too.

Old weapons caches from nearly 20 years ago aren't going to keep the Taliban supplied for any substantial length of time. They get Chinese, Russian, and Iranian weapons supplied by Iran and often financed by their sugar daddies in Saudi Arabia.

 

[0marTheZealot]

I think what people forget here is that Georgia attacked Russia. Russia didn't attack Georgia, it merely defended itself. Overzealously perhaps, but still, Georgia was the aggressor.

 

[Lemon law]

While TLC is correct in saying, "If you'd bother to break out of your sad little world where BDS is your primary disorder you'd find out that it was Clinton who got the ball rolling with arms sales and training to Georgia." Omar The Zealot is more correct in pointing out who attacked whom. And my original point still stand, it was Cheney and Rice who encouraged a mouse of a country to attack the giant bear. And as we can see, the Bear made short work of the mouse, and then neither Rice or Cheney would come to their aid when it came to a fight. As Georgia now joins a long list of countries who found our advice worse than worthless.

Maybe seeing Georgia lose big time is no skin off of TLC's butt, But as an American citizen, I think we owe Georgia for giving them bad advice and then not backing them. Its called integrity, something that GWB&co lacks in spades. Cheney and Rice should have never encouraged Georgian aggression.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

Er, maybe Russia has been stoking our fire all along?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

Er, maybe Russia has been stoking our fire all along?

It's been going back and forth since Putin came into power. The US pulled out of the ABM and broke it's promise not to expand NATO to Russia's borders. Russia resumed strategic bomber patrols and expanded it's military greatly. Now it's willing to deploy nuclear missiles at the borders of Ukraine in response to the US's expansion of NATO. It's been tit-for-tat on both sides.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

Er, maybe Russia has been stoking our fire all along?

It's been going back and forth since Putin came into power. The US pulled out of the ABM and broke it's promise not to expand NATO to Russia's borders. Russia resumed strategic bomber patrols and expanded it's military greatly. Now it's willing to deploy nuclear missiles at the borders of Ukraine in response to the US's expansion of NATO. It's been tit-for-tat on both sides.

you can not blame that these ex USSR countries are looking for NATO security. They were oppressed for 50 years

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I think what people forget here is that Georgia attacked Russia. Russia didn't attack Georgia, it merely defended itself. Overzealously perhaps, but still, Georgia was the aggressor.

Georgia attacked South Ossetia, then Russia attacked Georgia. South Ossetia isn't part of Russia.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I think what people forget here is that Georgia attacked Russia. Russia didn't attack Georgia, it merely defended itself. Overzealously perhaps, but still, Georgia was the aggressor.

Georgia attacked South Ossetia, then Russia attacked Georgia. South Ossetia isn't part of Russia.

this.

also, eastern block countries don't have the right of self determination according to omar either, they can only do what Russian wants.

 

[Rainsford]

Wow, Russia has managed to crush a tiny country into the ground...THAT must help restore Russia's feelings of superiority :roll:

Something tells me the Russians wouldn't be so happy to see that American equipment with Americans using it. Of course those days have long passed, if they were ever here at all...Russia is reduced to empty boasts and brainless attacks against their smaller neighbors. I can't believe we were worried about these guys marching across Europe, I think at this point the German Boy Scouts could stop them...

Personally I think we should make it clear we're done putting up with Russian bullshit. They are among the WORST global citizens on Earth, they still have some influence left from their glory days as the USSR...but all they use it for is stirring up trouble and trying to pretend they have an empire. I can see no reason we shouldn't deal with them more strongly. Sure, they have nukes...but Russia still sort of wants to play nice with everyone, at least economically, and we can greatly impact their success in doing that.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

you ask them "are you a Macintosh person or a Windows person ?"

by the time they're done saying, "What ?" you're gone.

that's what i always said to aggressive panhandlers when i lived in SF.
stopped them in their tracks.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: wwswimming

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

you ask them "are you a Macintosh person or a Windows person ?"

by the time they're done saying, "What ?" you're gone.

that's what i always said to aggressive panhandlers when i lived in SF.
stopped them in their tracks.

lol.
Maybe you should have tried. Pardon me. But do you have any Grey Poupon.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I think what people forget here is that Georgia attacked Russia. Russia didn't attack Georgia, it merely defended itself. Overzealously perhaps, but still, Georgia was the aggressor.

As was mentioned to you already, Osettia was not Russian territory.
More like if Little Rock, Arkansas broke away and the feds sent troops in to restore order and Govt.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Wow, Russia has managed to crush a tiny country into the ground...THAT must help restore Russia's feelings of superiority :roll:

Something tells me the Russians wouldn't be so happy to see that American equipment with Americans using it. Of course those days have long passed, if they were ever here at all...Russia is reduced to empty boasts and brainless attacks against their smaller neighbors. I can't believe we were worried about these guys marching across Europe, I think at this point the German Boy Scouts could stop them...Personally I think we should make it clear we're done putting up with Russian bullshit. They are among the WORST global citizens on Earth, they still have some influence left from their glory days as the USSR...but all they use it for is stirring up trouble and trying to pretend they have an empire. I can see no reason we shouldn't deal with them more strongly. Sure, they have nukes...but Russia still sort of wants to play nice with everyone, at least economically, and we can greatly impact their success in doing that.

I would agree with everything but the bolded. The time will come.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

Who do you think Russia sells its arms to?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Wow, Russia has managed to crush a tiny country into the ground...THAT must help restore Russia's feelings of superiority :roll:

Something tells me the Russians wouldn't be so happy to see that American equipment with Americans using it. Of course those days have long passed, if they were ever here at all...Russia is reduced to empty boasts and brainless attacks against their smaller neighbors. I can't believe we were worried about these guys marching across Europe, I think at this point the German Boy Scouts could stop them...Personally I think we should make it clear we're done putting up with Russian bullshit. They are among the WORST global citizens on Earth, they still have some influence left from their glory days as the USSR...but all they use it for is stirring up trouble and trying to pretend they have an empire. I can see no reason we shouldn't deal with them more strongly. Sure, they have nukes...but Russia still sort of wants to play nice with everyone, at least economically, and we can greatly impact their success in doing that.

I would agree with everything but the bolded. The time will come.

I don't think so...at least not without some dramatic changes in the relative power of the EU/NATO countries and Russia. Russia has a GDP smaller than that of Spain...Italy, France, the UK and Germany have considerably larger GDPs than Russia, and the EU as a whole has a GDP around 16 times that of Russia. Military spending for Russia is less than the UK and France individually, and the EU has a combined military budget roughly 6 times the size of Russia's. That's not even considering the United States, which has a GDP about 10-13 times the size of Russia's, and military spending over 14 times greater.

That's not to say that Russia doesn't have a large economy or a strong military, but relatively speaking they have fallen WAY behind their former power. And the thing is, they aren't doing much to improve their situation. Their economy isn't exactly leaping ahead, which is a problem because military spending for the US and EU is equal to about 85% of the ENTIRE Russian economy. Unless they turn into an economic powerhouse, there is simply no way the math would work to give them any chance of winning a real conflict.

 

[wwswimming]

Wow. still going at it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...m/us_georgia_ossetia_4

"Russian military retakes Georgia border village"

Cliffs - doesn't sound like there's any fighting as of 6 PM Saturday Dec. 13, 2008. the Russian troops withdraw, the Georgian troups move in. the Russian troops come back, the Georgian troops withdraw.

My understanding - the Ossetians are Persian (like Iran), the South Ossetians want to be united with the North Ossetians, which is part of Russia. I'm pretty sure most Ossetians, North & South, want to be part of Russia, not part of Georgia. So they're caught in the crossfire between one big bear (Russia) and a puppet (Georgia), which cooperates to some extent with the will of the US & Israel (when Russia moved troops in, what, a few months ago - during the Olympics ? - one of the things they did was to destroy a small military base that Israel was using. That military base may have been a staging area for an attack on Iran. I've only heard 1 or 2 articles saying that that was the purpose of that military base.

i think the original article at Alternet was mis-titled, i guess "Russian colonel struts around Ossetian town & surveys American stuff left behind by Georgian military" would have been more factual but less attention-getting.

The article at Alternet was about the interlude since the 5-day war or whatever it was. This new article is about stuff that's going on today.

Given who the players are who are involved, I would say it's more than interesting. It sounds like the Cold War.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
65 new tanks left behind? Fvcking sad, you don't give monkeys weapons. Train them.

The tank part was an obvious lie, or at least highly misleading.

The most advanced tanks Georgia has are T-72s, they definitely don't have M-1 Abrams or even M-60s.

Frankly its hard to think of any US technology that could have possibly been part of the tanks, the US simply doesn't have any expertise in modernizing T-72s or really doing anything that similar to this. (At most any technology must have been extremely minor.) Israel is somewhat more plausible, but you would still expect any modernizations of Israeli origin to be somewhat limited since T-72s are really not their area of expertise.

Most of any modernization that did occur most likely came from the Ukraine who sold Geogia some of its new T-72s or similar sources.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/...world/georgia/army.htm

 

[idiotekniQues]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I wish we wouldn't stoke the fire by contributing to Russia's enemies like this. Russia is like the mentally unstable homeless guy you see on your way to work. You don't try to provoke him, you don't know what he's going to do!

i gave that guy a cigarette this week