Everyone needs to avoid traveling to the states, especially with children

[Red Squirrel]

This whole situation is much worse than I thought.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...akable-cruelty-of-trumps-child-migrant-camps/

I'm not for allowing illegal immigration but why can't they just turn them away instead of taking all the children away from the parents and holding them captive in death camps? This is beyond cruel. I can't help but wonder how many of these families are actually just travelers being brutally separated. Given border agents are worse than cops and there arn't actually any laws or rights for them to follow at the border because it's a DMZ I imagine the whole experience is probably quite horrible to go through.

The answer to the illegal immigrant problem is simple. Let them in but don't provide them anything. Don't let them have a job, don't give them any kind of housing or health care. If there's nothing for them, they have no reason to go illegally. No need to torture them.

Wonder if they're doing this so they can use them to build the wall? If you put in enough work you get to see your children again once the wall is done.

 

[Raizinman]

If someone with their child broke into my house and was arrested, the child is separated from the adult. I am all for separating the child from parent or adult. These illegals know they are breaking the law when they come over. Why should they be treated any different than anyone else breaking the law.

 

[Ken g6]

If someone with their child broke into my house and was arrested, the child is separated from the adult.

...And put into the foster care system. Which is not great, but it's not jail either.

 

[fleshconsumed]

If someone with their child broke into my house and was arrested, the child is separated from the adult. I am all for separating the child from parent or adult. These illegals know they are breaking the law when they come over. Why should they be treated any different than anyone else breaking the law.

The most glaring issue is that migrants fleeing violence in their home countries seeking asylum still have their kids separated from them. A better analogy would be a family fleeing street violence takes refuge in your backyard. Do you a) show compassion and offer help, or b) treat them as criminals for trespassing your property and then separate the family?

 

[boomerang]

The most glaring issue is that migrants fleeing violence in their home countries seeking asylum still have their kids separated from them.

Only if they cross the border at other than a port of entry. In doing so, they have broken the law. Port of entry = legal. Other than port of entry = illegal.

 

[IJTSSG]

If several hundred families show up in your backyard what are you going to do then?

 

[Jaskalas]

...And put into the foster care system. Which is not great, but it's not jail either.

Do you think the foster care system can handle 250 additional kids PER DAY?
This is what it looks like when there are too many to handle.

 

[JSt0rm]

If someone with their child broke into my house and was arrested, the child is separated from the adult. I am all for separating the child from parent or adult. These illegals know they are breaking the law when they come over. Why should they be treated any different than anyone else breaking the law.

The asylum process is legal. Most of them are coming here under a legal process: present yourself at the border and ask for asylum. Trump's enforcement process is then "Jail everyone, even the babies." Completely ignoring the law under the guise of enforcing it.

 

[JSt0rm]

Only if they cross the border at other than a port of entry. In doing so, they have broken the law. Port of entry = legal. Other than port of entry = illegal.

this is false and fudd from your racist overlords...

If You Must Request Asylum at the Port of Entry
The reason to avoid requesting asylum at the port of entry to the U.S. is that the inspections officers have the power to quickly find you inadmissible and deport you, in which case you will not be allowed to return for five years. This can happen if an inspector believes that you are making a misrepresentation (committing fraud), or misrepresented the truth when you got your visa, or if you do not have the proper travel or visa documents at the time you request entry.

This quick deportation procedure is known as “summary exclusion.” It can be applied to anyone except people entering the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (according to a 1999 decision by the Board of Immigration Appeals).

There is an exception to the summary exclusion process for people who fear persecution and request asylum. So, even if you do not have the proper documents or you have made a misrepresentation, you could still be allowed to enter the U.S. if you make clear that your reason is to apply for asylum and you can show that you’d be likely to win asylum.

After you have said you want to apply for asylum, you’ll immediately be given a “credible fear” interview by an asylum officer. The purpose of this interview is to make sure you have a significant possibility of winning your case. Most importantly, the officer will want to be sure that your request is based on a fear of persecution. This interview is supposed to be scheduled quickly, within one or two days, but it has been taking longer.

If the officer isn’t convinced of your fear, you must request a hearing before an immigration judge. If you don’t, you will be deported from the U.S., and not be allowed to return for five years. The judge must hold the hearing within seven days, either in person or by telephone.

If the judge finds that you have a credible fear of persecution, you’ll be scheduled for a full hearing. In that case, you should seek an attorney. This proceeding will take place in Immigration Court, before a judge, and with an attorney representing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

 

[K1052]

Trump will not rest until the US is respected like North Korea and Russia.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Only if they cross the border at other than a port of entry. In doing so, they have broken the law. Port of entry = legal. Other than port of entry = illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/us/asylum-seekers-mexico-border.html

There are issues with crossing at port of entries. One is people are having to wait for what looks like weeks now, I have no idea what they're doing to feed themselves while they wait, while some people may have some money saved while they wait, many will not. There are also reports of asylum seekers being turned away for no reason. Two, thanks to our very compassionate Jeff Sessions, gang violence is no longer considered basis for seeking asylum, which leaves what, civil war as the only basis for granting asylum status?

 

[dyna]

The answer to the illegal immigrant problem is simple. Let them in but don't provide them anything. Don't let them have a job, don't give them any kind of housing or health care. If there's nothing for them, they have no reason to go illegally. No need to torture them.

I don't think it is that simple. We have sanctuary cities. Some cities have tried to pass the you can't rent to illegals and that hasn't work. If they go to the emergency room they are going to get healthcare. Illegals get jobs in businesses that payroll with cash. What your suggesting sounds a lot like immigration reform.

 

[HomerJS]

Only if they cross the border at other than a port of entry. In doing so, they have broken the law. Port of entry = legal. Other than port of entry = illegal.

People who show up at POE are not being seen because Trump admin didn't bother to staff up in advance. Knowing their crackdown would cause this.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't think it is that simple. We have sanctuary cities. Some cities have tried to pass the you can't rent to illegals and that hasn't work. If they go to the emergency room they are going to get healthcare. Illegals get jobs in businesses that payroll with cash. What your suggesting sounds a lot like immigration reform.

Which should be what happens. What's happening currently is not exactly better. Some people will argue "but it's not nice to send them back it's hot out!" well they took the risk to walk all the way there they can walk back. Maybe they can give them some water or something if they feel they need to do something but then send them on their way. Heck it happens all the time to legal travelers if something does not check out, like if they find prescription meds in their car or something else they don't like, they get banned and then sent back. Why not do the same to illegals. It should not be the US's responsibility what happens to them outside the country. Taking them as hostages and taking their babies is not exactly a better alternative.

 

[pcgeek11]

This whole situation is much worse than I thought.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...akable-cruelty-of-trumps-child-migrant-camps/

I'm not for allowing illegal immigration but why can't they just turn them away instead of taking all the children away from the parents and holding them captive in death camps? This is beyond cruel. I can't help but wonder how many of these families are actually just travelers being brutally separated. Given border agents are worse than cops and there arn't actually any laws or rights for them to follow at the border because it's a DMZ I imagine the whole experience is probably quite horrible to go through.

The answer to the illegal immigrant problem is simple. Let them in but don't provide them anything. Don't let them have a job, don't give them any kind of housing or health care. If there's nothing for them, they have no reason to go illegally. No need to torture them.

Wonder if they're doing this so they can use them to build the wall? If you put in enough work you get to see your children again once the wall is done.

Death Camps?

You have been reading too many liberal rags.

 

[compuwiz1]

Flyers should have been dropped a few months ago. Here's the program, folks; we are a sovereign nation and we love immigrants, but you just can't come here and cut in line, in front of my relatives, who have been waiting in line for up to 7 years, with petitions pending. That pisses all of us off.

Here's the real deal; don't show up, on the border demanding ANYTHING and don't show up with your kids. We owe you nothing and I am not going to put you in front of my own, petitioned family.

 

[IJTSSG]

There seems to be good, if not a little dated, information on this website:
https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...n-arriving-border-laws-policies-and-responses

If these stats are true, maybe these programs are worth expanding:

Can alternatives to detention be used for families?
Yes. ICE operates two alternatives to detention (ATD) programs for adult detainees—a “full service” program with case management, supervision, and monitoring (either by GPS or telephone check-in), and a “technology-only” program with monitoring only. According to U.S. government data, 95 percent of participants in ICE’s full service program appeared at scheduled court hearings from fiscal years 2011 to 2013. Further, in FY 2012 only 4 percent were arrested by another law enforcement agency. ICE’s alternatives program, as well as being more humane, is also less expensive than detention—$10.55/day as opposed to $158/day. As to asylum seekers, a prior U.S. government-commissioned study found that “asylum seekers do not need to be detained to appear,” and “[t]hey also do not seem to need intensive supervision.” Bipartisan support has emerged for alternatives to immigration detention. ICE, in early 2015, issued requests for proposals for “family case management services” for up to 300 families apiece in Baltimore/Washington, NYC/Newark, Miami, Chicago and Los Angeles.

 

[feralkid]

Flyers should have been dropped a few months ago. Here's the program, folks; we are a sovereign nation and we love immigrants, but you just can't come here and cut in line, in front of my relatives, who have been waiting in line for up to 7 years, with petitions pending. That pisses all of us off.

Here's the real deal; don't show up, on the border demanding ANYTHING and don't show up with your kids. We owe you nothing and I am not going to put you in front of my own, petitioned family.

Good luck to your family.

I hope they find safety.

From which country are they fleeing?

 

[feralkid]

Death Camps?

You have been reading too many liberal rags.

Exactly.

The death camps were to keep minorities from leaving; not to keep them from entering.

 

[SNC]

I'm really torn on this. I dont think anyone in this thread would ge arguing for US citizens with children be given a pass if the commit a crime worthy of jail time, or are they? Where the kids go is different and I get that, but what is it about a non-citizen with kids that makes it different from a citizen? I've heard the tapes of the crying kids, and it actually pulled me a bit - must be getting soft in my old age - but I can't believe that the 5 year old whose mother was sent to jail for theft or drugs does not make the same heart breaking pleas for their mom. Yet there is no groundswell of folks demanding that the child be kept with the mother. I will say that if these folks are going to just be held and then released back to the country of origin, then splitting up the family is a bunch of BS and should not be permitted. If on the other hand the parents are going to do time, then I really dont see the issue, other then from a emotional, and exact same one of the kids of citizens standpoint.

 

[shortylickens]

If several hundred families show up in your backyard what are you going to do then?

I've got an M1 Carbine and about 300 rounds, all in 30 round magazines.
After the first few go down the rest will probably take a hint.

BUT, thats never gonna happen in real life. At least not in the next few decades. So I'm really not worried.

 

[UNCjigga]

I'm really torn on this. I dont think anyone in this thread would ge arguing for US citizens with children be given a pass if the commit a crime worthy of jail time, or are they? Where the kids go is different and I get that, but what is it about a non-citizen with kids that makes it different from a citizen? I've heard the tapes of the crying kids, and it actually pulled me a bit - must be getting soft in my old age - but I can't believe that the 5 year old whose mother was sent to jail for theft or drugs does not make the same heart breaking pleas for their mom. Yet there is no groundswell of folks demanding that the child be kept with the mother. I will say that if these folks are going to just be held and then released back to the country of origin, then splitting up the family is a bunch of BS and should not be permitted. If on the other hand the parents are going to do time, then I really dont see the issue, other then from a emotional, and exact same one of the kids of citizens standpoint.

Beware of the false equivalency. If a citizen commits a crime and is jailed, nobody takes their children and locks them up in a warehouse. They are placed with a family member immediately, or with child protective services if a family member is not available. Nobody jails their kids.

It's sad that there are some simple things the administration can do to end family separations while keeping the core of zero tolerance in place. Nobody is asking them to grant more asylums or permit illegals to disappear into the country. Just keep them together. If you need to separate children from adults to minimize incidents of abuse, then make sure parents are at least in the same facility. If you are deporting a parent, make sure they take their children home with them. If kids still need to spend time away from parents due to short-term logistical constraints, then at least make sure they know where each other are. Let them talk on the phone. ITJSSG even pointed out programs that already exist to keep families out of detention and monitored via technology.

But no, President Trump wants none of these solutions (perhaps his attention bus focused on the Space Force.) He needs his bargaining chip for the wall. Why else would he keep the kids while deporting the parents (could the administration be seeking to reclassify the children as unaccompanied minors to hide the numbers of family separations?)

 

[IJTSSG]

There are lots of families who are staying together after crossing the border.

 

[SNC]

Beware of the false equivalency. If a citizen commits a crime and is jailed, nobody takes their children and locks them up in a warehouse. They are placed with a family member immediately, or with child protective services if a family member is not available. Nobody jails their kids.

Unless things are drastically different since I was involved in the system, there is very little difference in jail and where kids go when there is nowhere else to put them (and yes I know what jail is like). It is nice to think that there is a nice comfortable place for these kids of criminals to go if they dont have any family to go to, it's just not true. I was in exactly what you would call a warehouse with 100+ bunk beds and when there were more kids then beds we slept on the floor. We ate when told, exercised when told, slept when told, woke when told, were quiet when told and were moved from place to place in the facility in what looks like a chain gang, pretty much jail. It's not all sweetness and light as you seem to think it is. Hell one of the places I was in was bulldozed the afternoon after we were all bussed to other facilities so as to cover up the fucked up conditions we were in. The sad part is that the places we went after were not any better, some were worse. I have no first hand knowledge of how these kids are being treated, but with all the eyes on them I would be willing to bet its a lot better than I and a whole host of other US citizens were treated. And that before talking about the really fucked up house "parents", who had to have been picked from the most recently released pedofiles from local prisons. So you might be surprised that the false equivalency you speak of is actually tilted in the other direction. I still think that if the parents are just going to be deported then its a fucked up move splitting them up, you might want to look into the conditions kids of US parents are treated before getting to upset.

 

[Thebobo]

. That pisses all of us off.

Not me.