Every Windows 10 Update is a New Disaster

[mxnerd]

People who says there is no issue with Windows 10 is because he does not handle enough machines.

 

[Markfw]

I have been reading, and I understand you are frustrated pointing blame outward. However, seeing how windows update works perfectly on the vast, VAST majority of everyone else's computers working windows 10, I am nudged to believe it is a conflict to something specific to your machine(s), or those close to you. Perhaps its conflicting with an unusual setting manipulation you did, or some piece of software not fully supported in windows 10 that you install. Perhaps its a registry error that went unnoticed until the update.. The possibilities are almost endless as to why it might of happened, but (and again) I cant help but think fault is at the user end or at the very least, attributable to some piece of non windows 10 software installed causing the conflict, that will inadvertently also fall on the users shoulders.

The bottom line is, is if windows 10 updates were actually killing perfectly working machines with nothing but supported software installed, then the internet would melt down with all the complaints. as it is, its a teeny tiny fraction of a percent of users who have problems and that usually spells user error. Sorry, but good luck!

You don't get it... The update is FORCED on every computer, and if you roll it back becuse it does not work, its forced on you FOREVER, you can't stop it. No matter what was done, that is Microsofts fault.

Not to mention. IT WON'T COMPLETE A BOOT IN WIN 10 SAFE MODE, but it worked perfectly before the forced update. Safe mode eliminates all of the drivers an other things, or its supposed to.

And last. I have been dealing with windows since windows 3.1, and computers since 1985, and I retired from working in the IT profession. You telling me I did something wrong is more than just an insult.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You don't get it... The update is FORCED on every computer, and if you roll it back becuse it does not work, its forced on you FOREVER, you can't stop it. No matter what was done, that is Microsofts fault.

Well, you knew that installing Windows 10 meant allowing this. MS is pretty candid in their EULA and privacy policy and stuff, about the more-or-less "forced" updates.

 

[Markfw]

Well, you knew that installing Windows 10 meant allowing this. MS is pretty candid in their EULA and privacy policy and stuff, about the more-or-less "forced" updates.

Until this update, updates were "optional", even in win10. Maybe the fine print said otherwise. And in over 33 years, I have never seen an update like this that was forced, and you could not option out.

 

[mxnerd]

So now I have a useless Xeon X5570 computer with 18 gig of ram ! And a useless I7 950

Why not consider going back to Windows 7?

Or turn that Xeon system into an ESXi server?

 

[Markfw]

Why not consider going back to Windows 7?

Or turn that Xeon system into an ESXi server?

My windows 7 licenses are all used up in conversion to win 10. I could make it a linux box, and I may.

 

[Ketchup]

I have found in more than one occurrence that a Windows 7 license was "freed up" after conventing to 10. Used both keys on other systems, no issue.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Nope, all the installations go fine. After a reboot its a black screen and a perfect mouse cursor that works AND if I crtl-alt-del, I get a menu (in blue solid background) ! Task manager, change user something like that. But if I follow the instructions to get to safe mode, it will lockup right when you see a blue background with the version in the 4 corners.. Clicking in the start button gets a blue swirling circle, and a box that says something is not responding. Its locked up. And I waited, it just says not responding, shut down app, then repeats.

Well, that's sort of scary. I can tell you my symptoms were similar, but I'd had the 1709 update for several days before I noticed anything. After the update, the system booted to the boot menu maybe once, and I simply ran that session for several days. Maybe it would even restart and I wouldn't notice anything. But I'd shut it down, and try to cold boot -- to find that it just wouldn't post. I'd reset, reset, reset, or even use the switch to power down. MAYBE -- it would get to the dual-boot menu. In between "here and there," it wouldn't post. I ran the Macrium Repair bootable CD, got it to fix the boot sector, and I've had no problem since. But even to do that -- I had to go through a couple iterations before Macrium would see both operating systems so it could do the repair properly.

And this is all on an 18-month-old Z170 Skylake system. I can ACCEPT the difficulty I cause myself by maintaining a dual-boot system, and luckily, I can keep it backed up, imaging all the volumes with Macrium from within Windows 10. So far, I've been able to fix the system in short order this way -- twice -- and the system seems to run even better afterward. Then -- one could worry -- there'll be another big surprise with an Update.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I have found in more than one occurrence that a Windows 7 license was "freed up" after conventing to 10. Used both keys on other systems, no issue.

that happened to me by mistake. I'd installed Win 7 on a used laptop, then upgraded it to Windows 10 in a dual-boot configuration. Later, I was putting a desktop together and testing it -- thought I would simply buy another Win 7 for that purpose -- which I did. It was a Win 7 "download" -- but a legitimately licensed purchase. What did I do? I used the install disc for the previously-installed laptop OS -- by mistake. Suddenly, Win 7 on the laptop was giving me those messages to "get Genuine Windows 7" -- but the Windows 10 continued to work without a hitch. And -- the Win 7 OS on the desktop is without problem.

 

[mikeymikec]

What I find funny/depressing about the Windows 10 'feature updates' was that the general wisdom before 2015 was that if you want to upgrade to a new version of Windows, you're better off doing a clean install. Then MS decided, "let's try to sneak a major OS upgrade on users without their permission!", gave an apology way afterwards, then decided, "let's do this twice a year and make them an absolute requirement!".

 

[Insert_Nickname]

What I find funny/depressing about the Windows 10 'feature updates' was that the general wisdom before 2015 was that if you want to upgrade to a new version of Windows, you're better off doing a clean install. Then MS decided, "let's try to sneak a major OS upgrade on users without their permission!", gave an apology way afterwards, then decided, "let's do this twice a year and make them an absolute requirement!".

This is just my own observations and opinion, and should in no way be treated as fact.

I have seen plenty of in-place updates go bad over the years (30+) with the various Windows versions all the way back to 3.11. The -right- way (right as in least -funny- issues) to upgrade between Windows versions is a clean install. Windows just can't seem to get an in-place upgrade right somehow. Sometimes it works, other times it trashes the system. With no way of predicting how it turns out.

Now a clean install is not always possible for various reasons, so occasionally you just have to do an in-place upgrade and hope for the best. And have a backup ready, just in case.

Lately (last 2 years) I've noticed in increase in Windows 10 feature updates that somehow go "bad". Not perhaps the first time, or the second. But third or fourth time these feature updates are in-place upgraded there is a much increased risk of all sorts of issues cropping up. It gets really bad if these systems were originally running 7. All sorts of weirdness with the later Creator upgrades. I think a lot of the issues people have is down to these repeated in-place upgrades, but that's just speculation on my part.

Another thing is certain older drivers have issues with 10. They can't handle 8(.1)/10's way of handling shutdowns. This is mostly an issue with 7 systems, as 8 and later usually have drivers that can handle it. As MS changed this with 8. This is because the running user profile(s) is just stopped and written to disk when shutdown, so processes are never shutdown and restarted. They just pick up were they left-of. A simple fix to avoid this is to disable rapid start in power configuration, so the system is completely shutdown when shutdown. You just have to remember to disable it again with every feature upgrade, since MS doesn't respect this setting when upgrading.

My own systems have managed to run more or less without issues, but that is mere luck of the draw rather then judgement.

 

[C1]

“Windows 7 was designed nearly 10 years ago before any x86/x64 SOCs existed. For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7’s expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states, which is challenging for WiFi, graphics, security, and more. As partners make customizations to legacy device drivers, services, and firmware settings, customers are likely to see regressions with Windows 7 ongoing servicing.”

Ref:

Why Windows 7 Won’t Work On Intel’s Current & Next Gen CPUs
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7-wont-work-intels-current-next-gen-cpus/

Microsoft says new processors will only work with Windows 10
https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows-support-policy-new-processors-skylake

Skylake users given 18 months to upgrade to Windows 10
( And next generation processors, including Intel's Kaby Lake, won't be supported in old Windows. )
https://arstechnica.com/information...ers-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

New processors are now blocked from receiving updates on old Windows ( The promised update block is now in effect. )
https://arstechnica.com/information...locked-from-receiving-updates-on-old-windows/

 

[dave_the_nerd]

So whether I have to pay for the software or not, because Microsoft forced the update, and my sons computer for WORK is down indefinitely, and best case scenario is that I spend days reinstalling everything, its not their fault ? Come on Larry....

Wait... wait... wait...

1. Your son has a computer for work. Work.
2. He has CAD software on it, which he uses for work. Work.
3. He paid for the CAD software. And not his employer.
4. His computer got borked by Windows. (Okay, it happens.)
5. You are, for some reason, the one stuck reformatting/reconfiguring the computer.
6. This process takes you days, and not a couple hours.
7. You have to buy the CAD software again?

This stinks. Why are you doing the repair and not his job's IT staff? Why would it take so long? Are you getting paid for this? Why doesn't your son have the serial number for the software he bought? Why doesn't his employer provide him with the tools necessary to do his job? It's great that you want to help him, I guess, but maybe the better lesson here is that he needs to advocate for himself professionally?

Also, nothing personal, because I don't know you, but dude - if you're going to respond to criticism with "I'm a retired IT guy I know what I'm doing" you clearly haven't been around some of the IT guys I've had the displeasure of working with, and have no idea just how little confidence that sort of assertion engenders. (For me, that's up there with "What could go wrong?" and "Hold my beer!" in the Canonical List Of Phrases To Run Away From Really Fast™.)

 

[Markfw]

Wait... wait... wait...

1. Your son has a computer for work. Work.
2. He has CAD software on it, which he uses for work. Work.
3. He paid for the CAD software. And not his employer.
4. His computer got borked by Windows. (Okay, it happens.)
5. You are, for some reason, the one stuck reformatting/reconfiguring the computer.
6. This process takes you days, and not a couple hours.
7. You have to buy the CAD software again?

This stinks. Why are you doing the repair and not his job's IT staff? Why would it take so long? Are you getting paid for this? Why doesn't your son have the serial number for the software he bought? Why doesn't his employer provide him with the tools necessary to do his job? It's great that you want to help him, I guess, but maybe the better lesson here is that he needs to advocate for himself professionally?

Also, nothing personal, because I don't know you, but dude - if you're going to respond to criticism with "I'm a retired IT guy I know what I'm doing" you clearly haven't been around some of the IT guys I've had the displeasure of working with, and have no idea just how little confidence that sort of assertion engenders. (For me, that's up there with "What could go wrong?" and "Hold my beer!" in the Canonical List Of Phrases To Run Away From Really Fast™.)

Valid questions. First, he works for a company that has 3 employees, him, and 2 admins. He can use a computer provided to him that is slow as a snail(dual core, 4 gig memory, I3 speed, no SSD). So I offered to provide him with a good one(E5570, 4 core 8 thread, and 18 gig of ram, and a 250 gig SSD), which his boss said was OK. As to how long ? First I have to drive up there (hours) and who know what I will encounter, and his boss said for a new computer, he had to buy a new key (his words). Not to mention restore all the old data files, and saved configs.

OK, sure, but I have to do all of those because Microsoft says it has to run the latest version ? and that version borks it ? And I can't say NO ? THATS my problem. If it worked, OK< but if it borks it, then I should be able to run the old version.

Edit: and my son sure can't do it... Let not even go there.....

 

[owensdj]

You're lucky. You could be one of those Ubuntu Linux users who had their laptop bricked because an update made the mistake of changing a firmware setting.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You're lucky. You could be one of those Ubuntu Linux users who had their laptop bricked because an update made the mistake of changing a firmware setting.

Everything borks everything. Learn to fix your stuff.

 

[B-Riz]

Valid questions. First, he works for a company that has 3 employees, him, and 2 admins. He can use a computer provided to him that is slow as a snail(dual core, 4 gig memory, I3 speed, no SSD). So I offered to provide him with a good one(E5570, 4 core 8 thread, and 18 gig of ram, and a 250 gig SSD), which his boss said was OK. As to how long ? First I have to drive up there (hours) and who know what I will encounter, and his boss said for a new computer, he had to buy a new key (his words). Not to mention restore all the old data files, and saved configs.

OK, sure, but I have to do all of those because Microsoft says it has to run the latest version ? and that version borks it ? And I can't say NO ? THATS my problem. If it worked, OK< but if it borks it, then I should be able to run the old version.

Edit: and my son sure can't do it... Let not even go there.....

I didn't see if you mentioned trying a *repair install* with a fresh 1709 USB drive, so, if you have, apologies.

That may fix your issues, as it is like installing Windows fresh after booting from the USB, but it lets you keep all settings.

But make a backup first! lol

 

[RhoXS]

I don't care if an exploit is developed which causes laptops to grow legs, retrieve knives, and murder their owners. I don't care if my mother gets ALL the spyware (Windows 10 is already just spyware). Literally every single forced update (of which switching to Windows 10 itself was one) screws up my mother's computer and has her calling me screaming. Now it is stuck on an endless loop of "Choose your keyboard, now choose another operating system or fail to do a start-up repair." It's something else every time. Last time they completely rearranged all the options in her Word and Excel for absolutely no reason.

Is there seriously no way to stop these %$*($@ forced updates?

I strongly agree with the essence of your message. Windows certainly did evolve from its original release to a very stable and mature product when W7 was released. W7 also had a really excellent user interface that was very clean, very utile, and very intuitive. In my opinion, the W7 user interface was absolutely and by far the best of all versions, and in comparison, the W10 user interface truly sucks.

That being said, there is obviously infinitely more to Windows under the hood than just the user interface. However, in my opinion, we form our biggest opinion of Windows from what we see, the user interface. That is why I absolutely despise what Windows has evolved into since W7, even though W10 seems to do a very good job under the hood. It is absolutely essential Microsoft keep the inner workings up to date for security and an almost infinite number of other reasons. So please Microsoft, leave the damn user interface alone and easily allow users to revert to the outstanding W7 interface (which appears to be still hidden there anyway).