Ever wonder what happens when your pump fails?

[Yuriman]

I came home from class today and was using my PC, and noticed that I had some odd artifacts on my desktop when I moved windows around - as though my GPU memory overclock was too high. I had GUIminer running in the background crunching bitcoins and a modest overclock of 1100mhz on the core. I scaled my OC back a bit and everything cleared up.

About an hour later I opened up GPU-Z and began to troubleshoot, wondering what might've changed, and noticed that my 7850 was running at 81c! I then opened CPU-Z + Core temp to find my CPU was at 58c.

I'm running a Swiftech waterblock on both my CPU and GPU with 3/8" tubing and an MCP-355 pump, and apparently while I was at in class my pump died (no huge surprise, it's 6 years old at this point). There was no catastrophic failure though, no meltdown. In fact, I'm continuing to use my system without the pump - I've just closed down my bitcoin miner. It's a real testament to how little heat Ivy Bridge + Pitcairn produce that they can both maintain reasonable temperatures with zero active cooling. Heck, the 7850 is only luke-warm to the touch and I can leave my hand comfortably on my CPU block.

Question is, what to do now? I suppose with this system watercooling isn't even really necessary, but I don't trust running my CPU bare-die with the Intel stock heatsink because of its terrible mounting mechanism.

 

[lakedude]

CM 212 mounts solid, cools good, and don't cost so much.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

 

[Yuriman]

That's probably (approximately) the route I'll end up taking but I'm concerned about using a tower heatsink with a bare-die Ivy.

What about the 212 variations, such as the Evo and Plus? Cost effective?

 

[TY-1]

That's probably (approximately) the route I'll end up taking but I'm concerned about using a tower heatsink with a bare-die Ivy.

What about the 212 variations, such as the Evo and Plus? Cost effective?

They are both incredibly similar and you'll see similar results whichever one you choose. The Evo is a bit newer than the Plus and you get a slightly better fan with it than with the Plus. The only issue I see with both of them is that the base, where the pipes make contact with the CPU, isn't one solid piece but rather has small separations in between the heatpipes, but that just means you have to be a bit more tedious when applying your thermal compound.

 

[Yuriman]

So if the classic 212 is cheaper, go for that one? I have a stack of Yate Loons I'm rather fond of, don't need a fan.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wow those are crazy low temps considering what happened. My air cooled i7 runs higher than that most of the time! Guess there was some convection going on with the water perhaps inducing a bit of circulation.

 

[Eureka]

212 is $15 right now from Newegg... jump on it http://slickdeals.net/f/5943730-COO...e-Sleeve-120mm-CPU-Cooler-20AR-or-less-Newegg

 

[Yuriman]

Looks good. Is there a fair alternative (at a similar price) that doesn't have exposed heatpipes? I don't think it's a good idea with bare-die if I can avoid it.

EDIT: Looks like the EVO has a solid copper base.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Are you not willing to pay for another pump? Why go back to air when all you need to do is swap in a new pump?

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Might as well take apart the loop, clean it, and buy a new pump.

Pumps aren't overly expensive.

Did you just watercool because you had the components to do so? (Guessing)

 

[Yuriman]

I'm reusing the loop from my Q6600 + CF HD4870 rig and at this point I'm inclined to sell the rest of the parts and move back to air. It might not be the most logical thing to do but if I were to, is the Hyper 212 definitely the way to go?

I believe my tubing is in need of replacement too and I need a new bottle of coolant, it's probably cheaper and easier to get a heatsink and call it a day.

 

[TY-1]

You should be fine with the CM Hyper 212, either version, considering what you are looking to do and that you want to get a quality heatsink without spending too much.

 

[Termie]

You have a significant CPU overclock and you're using a significant amount of voltage, so I'd at least get the Evo version of the Hyper 212. While the fan is slightly better, it's really the base that makes the big difference.

 

[smackababy]

I think the last time I wasn't running dual pumps, I noticed my pump failed when my CPU hit 90C. I knew almost immediately what happened. So, I redid my loop with two pumps and never looked back.

 

[aigomorla]

this is what happens..

as the cooler water touches the warm die.. it warms up.
the warm water though convection tries to go to the top while it forces the colder water down.

As the water is then releasing heat though straight passive radiation. As the warm water up top gets cooler... it drops down again and repeats.

If your heat load is small, it can be done.
If you decide u want to play a GPU hard game... your heat will pile and pile... and eventually your passive radiation wont keep up with it.

The temps will rise and rise until you eventually melted though your gpu block.

Which has happened to me and a few others when we first started this venture back in 2004? holy cow... ive been on water for a long ass time...

I think the last time I wasn't running dual pumps, I noticed my pump failed when my CPU hit 90C. I knew almost immediately what happened. So, I redid my loop with two pumps and never looked back.

lol no one realizes how important redundancy is until they used it.
Lets say a pump has a 10% chance at failure... (not real numbers but just throwing out random...)
that means u have a 10% chance your system will die when first pump dies without a redundant pump.
And 10% of 10% or 1% chance both your pumps will fail and your entire system will go down if u had 2 pumps.

even if u had just 1 pump pushing 3 water blocks 2 radiators... you'd still have more FLOW then an AIO and a much greater cooling potential.

I'm reusing the loop from my Q6600 + CF HD4870 rig and at this point I'm inclined to sell the rest of the parts and move back to air. It might not be the most logical thing to do but if I were to, is the Hyper 212 definitely the way to go?

I believe my tubing is in need of replacement too and I need a new bottle of coolant, it's probably cheaper and easier to get a heatsink and call it a day.

you do know that your gpu temps will increase by 2x once u take off that waterblock.
Your gonna be back on air cooling on the gpu.
I have said this many times... cpu... has become secondary now... with SB / IVy.... they dont put the minimum heat out for you to see a hugh net benifit on straight ambient water.

However on the GPUs.... depending on the GPU block.... your talking about:
1. Your gonna lose VRM cooling on a cold plate. - cooling the vrms can in short extend the life of the card, getting rid of it, will start you back on the normal eat cycle of your card.
2. Your temps are gonna double... generally speaking watercooling the GPU gives u a net reduction of about HALF your gpu temps.... so yeah.. expect to see a BIG WTF on that part.
3. While u think u gona spend less money with a simple migration back to air... the net savings isnt gonna be a lot.


My advice... unless u just had it with watercooling... u dont want to maintain it.. or u dont see the use for it... id go with a simple pump change.
You just need to drain... and then swap the pump... then rebleed... unless u been missing your maintaince cycles... which then id say go back to air.

If you cant maintain a LC system... DONT LC.
That's the easiest way to answer that question.

 

[Zap]

We had a setup where the fans were, ahem, not plugged in (2x120mm rad, cooling an overclocked Core 2 Quad only). It lasted a few hours under desktop use, but started thermal throttling after about a WHOLE HOUR of playing the original Borderlands. Never locked or became unstable, just throttled so performance became horrible. I think the CPU was running 90ºC or so. Got the fans plugged back in and it was fine within the minute.

 

[Subyman]

I've always set my turn off CPU temp to be ~75C so if the pump fails it will shutdown. It came in handy when I had the fan controller (I use it to control pump speed) set too low for my pump and it didn't turn on. It barely got to windows before shutting down, which let me know right away that something way wrong with my loop. That's the way most people with a WC handle the situation. I'd buy a new pump and continue using the loop. It may come in handy later if you choose to upgrade down the road. Used WC parts sell for hardly anything, so parting it out won't net much but its pretty expensive to get going again.

Plus you'd have to go back to the stock fan on the GPU. Depending on how you did your loop we are talking about 600-900rpm fans on the rad vs a 600-2000 RPM fan on the Evo plus whatever the GPU uses (which gets load under load like bitcoin mining.)

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I couldn't get past the humming of my 355. The rig is still sitting waiting to either be used of sold off.

 

[john3850]

During 2003 I was using a Eheim 1250 for both 9700 and amd cpu after 17min the screen started to get artifacts yet it took 10 minutes to remember the 125 volt power was off to the Eheim 1250 pump.
Now my old bay Reservoir which has a 99% silver dime I put in it has a tiny drip.
During my last trip to mirco center I asked 6 different workers for that kill coil not one of them knew what is was asking for and their site had 2 in stock now it tee line time again.

 

[Yuriman]

I've been back on air for a few days, and I've been using the Intel stock cooler and the stock cooler for the 7850 until I decide what to do.

I was amazed by how small the Intel stock cooler is - hadn't removed it from the box and even looked at it. For now I have my overclock scaled back to 4.3ghz with no additional voltage, and it hits the upper 90's under IBT but the noise isn't excessive (I don't sleep next to my compy) and in day to day usage it doesn't typically break 80c. It's definitely going to be replaced if I don't just get a new pump though.

As for the 7850, my load temps are in the 70's loaded (up from low 40's) but the Windforce cooler is pretty quiet and it hasn't affected my overclock at all. The card is voltage locked outside of 1.210-1.225v and maxes out at the same clocks as under water, even if it is ~30c warmer.

I've been browsing for coolers and have decided that if I'm going to attempt to run bare-die with a tower heatsink I can't use the Plus because it has (what appears to be) a mixed aluminum and copper base, and is perhaps not totally flat between the heatpipes. The Evo doesn't have any gaps between the heatpipes and for a bare-die use, I think it will be worth the extra $13 for the Evo. I saw the Zalman CNPS10X on Newegg though and, referring to this chart, it appears to be a better cooler and cheaper after rebate than the Evo, but has gaps between the pipes like the 212 Plus so I would likely need to put the lid back on my chip.

I'm leaning toward getting the Evo, but what do you guys think about the Zalman? I suppose I'm leaning toward air for no better reason than for some change. Any other reasons I come up with seem like rationalizations.

Edit: upon further reading it appears I was looking at the numbers for a different model of Zalman. The 212 appears to be quite an exceptional value.

 

[aigomorla]

every 10C u bring your IC components down in temps, you effectively doubled the life on it.

30C increase on your gpu, means u would need to replace that thing 3x as fast as u normally would had it been under water.

Add the cost of ownership, also add the factor on the cpu, and overall in the long run you lose more money and performance then save by not just replacing the pump.

unless ur considering the notion of upgrading your core components, i cant see how just buying a new pump and replacing it wouldnt net u a overall win.

 

[Yuriman]

Fair enough. I appreciate the advice, all!

 

[dma0991]

You must be in that stage where the inner WC flame just sizzles out and back to conventional methods which requires less time, effort and money to do. I've always wondered when the day might come for me when I'm too old/busy/family/work/demotivated to continue pouring my time and money into this hobby.

Spoiler

Not anytime soon though. :twisted:

 

[TY-1]

When it comes to CPU cooling solutions I always put preference on a solid base making contact with the CPU rather than exposed heat-pipes that may be uneven in their contact (more than thermal paste can make up for).