Ever notice when a band becomes popular...

[ThePresence]

...People always say "their first cd (which nobody ever heard, and may have not even existed) was better?"

 

[dman]

And the rest of the people say they have no talent.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

Or it just wasnt marketed yet

 

[nan0bug]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

Or maybe it's because it's usually true. Most bands that make good music for the mainstream made better music when they didn't have money to pacify whatever drives their creativity.

 

[ThePresence]

Okay, so basically most people (mainstream) don't like good music? Bands have to produce music of inferior quality in order to get accepted?

 

[kranky]

And many people are only attracted to niche bands, so when one of their favorites makes it big they don't want to be part of the "huge" fan base. Then they go off and find another no-name band to be a fan of.

 

[tom3]

Originally posted by: kranky
And many people are only attracted to niche bands, so when one of their favorites makes it big they don't want to be part of the "huge" fan base. Then they go off and find another no-name band to be a fan of.

and they begin to call the band that made it big "sell outs"

 

[BigPoppa]

Its very true for the most part. Very few bands can maintain their original quality while still making it big. A Perfect Circle and Tool, to name two, have done it, but they're no where near as immensely "pop"ular as mainstream pop.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: kranky
And many people are only attracted to niche bands, so when one of their favorites makes it big they don't want to be part of the "huge" fan base. Then they go off and find another no-name band to be a fan of.

Bwahaha. I was bagging on my friend b/c he turned off a Guster song b/c it was one of the radio singles. He asserts that it became a single becuase it was "poppy" enough for the the public but he didn't much like it. I told him that he doesn't like it because it was played on the radio.

Later I asked him to go somewhere to eat and he said he didn't like that place. I asked him if it wasn't "indie" enough for him. Too many people that might have heard a Guster song on the radio and liked it might be there.

Where's your beret?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

What often happens is that what pleased the smaller audience wasn't upto pleasing a larger audience. Look at concept cars for example, alot of people perfer the concept cars to the production cars that they end up being, but many just aren't suited for the average driver, so they're tamed down.

Compare a few of Offspring's CDs:
The Offspring
Smash
Americana

They're all good on thier own right, but the self titled album sounds almost NOTHING like the Americana album, although thier later albums are starting to sound more and more like they have half of the songs like the earlier albums, and half like the later. I guess that's the only way to please both the mainstream and the core audiences.

 

[luv2chill]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Okay, so basically most people (mainstream) don't like good music? Bands have to produce music of inferior quality in order to get accepted?

Well, I think most people like their music "glossy" (i.e. produced to death). Usually a band's first CD (unless they are a music industy creation like Backstreet Boys) will not have had the budget for a big-name producer and has a "rough around the edges" sound that is undeniably charming to music lovers. Music for music's sake you know? Not only that, but the band has full control of what they do with their sound. When a band signs to a major label, money becomes involved. There are industry suits to impress... now the most important thing is to make the music palatable to the mainstream so it will sell well. This means hiring a big-name producer to control things, who will proceed to make it as bland and overproduced as possible. In the mastering stages, compression techniques are used to bring out the midrange for radio play, ruining the equalization. Music for money's sake.

That may make no sense to you, but that's the best I can explain it.

l2c

 

[isasir]

Originally posted by: tom3

Originally posted by: kranky
And many people are only attracted to niche bands, so when one of their favorites makes it big they don't want to be part of the "huge" fan base. Then they go off and find another no-name band to be a fan of.

and they begin to call the band that made it big "sell outs"

Yup. What I was gonna say.

 

[Spooner]

A good topic. I hate when people hate things purely because they're popular.

 

[ggavinmoss]

I only like bands nobody's heard of. If a band I like becomes popular, I'll bitch and moan about how they're sell-outs and go find another no-name band to worship.

-geoff

 

[mpitts]

Originally posted by: Spooner
A good topic. I hate when people hate things purely because they're popular.

Agreed.

Some people try so hard to just be "anti". I used to be like that MANY years ago, but I got over it when some of my favorite bands went from obscurity to huge stars.

 

[gistech1978]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
What often happens is that what pleased the smaller audience wasn't upto pleasing a larger audience. Look at concept cars for example, alot of people perfer the concept cars to the production cars that they end up being, but many just aren't suited for the average driver, so they're tamed down.

Compare a few of Offspring's CDs:
The Offspring
Smash
Americana

They're all good on thier own right, but the self titled album sounds almost NOTHING like the Americana album, although thier later albums are starting to sound more and more like they have half of the songs like the earlier albums, and half like the later. I guess that's the only way to please both the mainstream and the core audiences.

another example is Sugar Ray.
Everclear.

but those bands did nothing to stay with their 'core' audience.

 

[Kadarin]

Creed is a good example. Their first cd is pretty good, but the angst and talent that drove that cd died with their success.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

you obviously have no clue how the music industry works. do you have any idea how much raw money it takes to get a single song on the radio, let alone promote an entire album? you can't just release an album and have it blow up on it's own. the best you can hope for (if you are really amazing) is maybe 10,000 copies. Sublime managed 30,000 copies of their first album on their own, and that was with huge word-of-mouth.

many bands are signed on the strengh of one song, and since that one song always fits a very specific industry format, chances are it doesn't represent the band. So you get signed and the label says "we need 12 more of these or we don't release your record, and we own your ass for the next 5+ years, so unless you just want to sit around doing nothing, you have to do what we say." in addition, if a band spends their recording budget recording an album that the label deems unacceptable, who do you think pays to record the replacement? THE BAND. that's ON TOP of already having to pay back the label for the first try. So now they owe the label money AND they probably had to take out huge personal loans to record the second try. Thus there is huge pressure to get the first try approved, and that almost always means making compromises to the sound of the band. The only way to avoid this is if you're lucky enough to have a label that's really into you as a band, not just for one potential single. Then they're more likely to approve whatever you send their way. But those situations are few and far between because the industry is run by people who love money, not music, and that applies to even the indie labels.

 

[maziwanka]

blah blah blah.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

you obviously have no clue how the music industry works. do you have any idea how much raw money it takes to get a single song on the radio, let alone promote an entire album? you can't just release an album and have it blow up on it's own. the best you can hope for (if you are really amazing) is maybe 10,000 copies. Sublime managed 30,000 copies of their first album on their own, and that was with huge word-of-mouth.

many bands are signed on the strengh of one song, and since that one song always fits a very specific industry format, chances are it doesn't represent the band. So you get signed and the label says "we need 12 more of these or we don't release your record, and we own your ass for the next 5+ years, so unless you just want to sit around doing nothing, you have to do what we say." in addition, if a band spends their recording budget recording an album that the label deems unacceptable, who do you think pays to record the replacement? THE BAND. that's ON TOP of already having to pay back the label for the first try. So now they owe the label money AND they probably had to take out huge personal loans to record the second try. Thus there is huge pressure to get the first try approved, and that almost always means making compromises to the sound of the band. The only way to avoid this is if you're lucky enough to have a label that's really into you as a band, not just for one potential single. Then they're more likely to approve whatever you send their way. But those situations are few and far between because the industry is run by people who love money, not music, and that applies to even the indie labels.

So basically what you're saying is that people don't like good music, right? The label is only interested in money, that's true. But how do they make money? By selling alot of albums. Don;t you think people would buy more albums of "good" music than overproduced crap?

 

[gistech1978]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

you obviously have no clue how the music industry works. do you have any idea how much raw money it takes to get a single song on the radio, let alone promote an entire album? you can't just release an album and have it blow up on it's own. the best you can hope for (if you are really amazing) is maybe 10,000 copies. Sublime managed 30,000 copies of their first album on their own, and that was with huge word-of-mouth.

many bands are signed on the strengh of one song, and since that one song always fits a very specific industry format, chances are it doesn't represent the band. So you get signed and the label says "we need 12 more of these or we don't release your record, and we own your ass for the next 5+ years, so unless you just want to sit around doing nothing, you have to do what we say." in addition, if a band spends their recording budget recording an album that the label deems unacceptable, who do you think pays to record the replacement? THE BAND. that's ON TOP of already having to pay back the label for the first try. So now they owe the label money AND they probably had to take out huge personal loans to record the second try. Thus there is huge pressure to get the first try approved, and that almost always means making compromises to the sound of the band. The only way to avoid this is if you're lucky enough to have a label that's really into you as a band, not just for one potential single. Then they're more likely to approve whatever you send their way. But those situations are few and far between because the industry is run by people who love money, not music, and that applies to even the indie labels.

So basically what you're saying is that people don't like good music, right? The label is only interested in money, that's true. But how do they make money? By selling alot of albums. Don;t you think people would buy more albums of "good" music than overproduced crap?

one would think so.
but they dont.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

you obviously have no clue how the music industry works. do you have any idea how much raw money it takes to get a single song on the radio, let alone promote an entire album? you can't just release an album and have it blow up on it's own. the best you can hope for (if you are really amazing) is maybe 10,000 copies. Sublime managed 30,000 copies of their first album on their own, and that was with huge word-of-mouth.

many bands are signed on the strengh of one song, and since that one song always fits a very specific industry format, chances are it doesn't represent the band. So you get signed and the label says "we need 12 more of these or we don't release your record, and we own your ass for the next 5+ years, so unless you just want to sit around doing nothing, you have to do what we say." in addition, if a band spends their recording budget recording an album that the label deems unacceptable, who do you think pays to record the replacement? THE BAND. that's ON TOP of already having to pay back the label for the first try. So now they owe the label money AND they probably had to take out huge personal loans to record the second try. Thus there is huge pressure to get the first try approved, and that almost always means making compromises to the sound of the band. The only way to avoid this is if you're lucky enough to have a label that's really into you as a band, not just for one potential single. Then they're more likely to approve whatever you send their way. But those situations are few and far between because the industry is run by people who love money, not music, and that applies to even the indie labels.

So basically what you're saying is that people don't like good music, right? The label is only interested in money, that's true. But how do they make money? By selling alot of albums. Don;t you think people would buy more albums of "good" music than overproduced crap?

You must really like Backstreet Boys, Britany Spears and Linkin Park because by your logic since they sell a lot they must be the best. The truth is that what is good and what is popular rarely overlap.

There is a reason why candy pop, realitity TV and sitcoms are so popular, and that reason is because the majority of people in this country are complete mindless idiots.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FeathersMcGraw
Probably because the sound that it takes to gain mainstream acceptance will differ from the things that the first-adopter niche market likes.

Maybe, but there is usually a reason why the first cd didn't make them popular. Usually because it sucked.

you obviously have no clue how the music industry works. do you have any idea how much raw money it takes to get a single song on the radio, let alone promote an entire album? you can't just release an album and have it blow up on it's own. the best you can hope for (if you are really amazing) is maybe 10,000 copies. Sublime managed 30,000 copies of their first album on their own, and that was with huge word-of-mouth.

many bands are signed on the strengh of one song, and since that one song always fits a very specific industry format, chances are it doesn't represent the band. So you get signed and the label says "we need 12 more of these or we don't release your record, and we own your ass for the next 5+ years, so unless you just want to sit around doing nothing, you have to do what we say." in addition, if a band spends their recording budget recording an album that the label deems unacceptable, who do you think pays to record the replacement? THE BAND. that's ON TOP of already having to pay back the label for the first try. So now they owe the label money AND they probably had to take out huge personal loans to record the second try. Thus there is huge pressure to get the first try approved, and that almost always means making compromises to the sound of the band. The only way to avoid this is if you're lucky enough to have a label that's really into you as a band, not just for one potential single. Then they're more likely to approve whatever you send their way. But those situations are few and far between because the industry is run by people who love money, not music, and that applies to even the indie labels.

So basically what you're saying is that people don't like good music, right? The label is only interested in money, that's true. But how do they make money? By selling alot of albums. Don;t you think people would buy more albums of "good" music than overproduced crap?

You must really like Backstreet Boys, Britany Spears and Linkin Park because by your logic since they sell a lot they must be the best. The truth is that what is good and what is popular rarely overlap.

You're missing the point. The question is WHY? Most people I know like good music, not pop shite.