ever learn a new language?

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
i want to learn russian and have been looking into what is the best approach. rosetta stone seems like it would be useful for the basic language, but it doesnt tech the alphabet or tell you what it means in english., just shows pictures. any suggections from someone who has done this?
 

ChaoZ

Diamond Member
Apr 5, 2000
8,906
1
0
Community college. Watch a shit load of shows with english subtitles.
 

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
Community college. Watch a shit load of shows with english subtitles.

i plan on taking classes when they are available, but im in oklahoma/arkansas area so not a lot to choose from. I would like to get started as soon as i can, but i think they only have the classes in the summer. i will make some calls to the college and find out for sure though.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I learned Spanish from working at Home Depot in a primarily Mexican area. Best way to learn a language is to put yourself in a situation where you have to speak that language. Move to Russia.
 

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
I learned Spanish from working at Home Depot in a primarily Mexican area. Best way to learn a language is to put yourself in a situation where you have to speak that language. Move to Russia.

which would be the rosetta stone method. i think im gonna try it and take the classes also.
 

Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
1,746
0
86
Whatever method you use, the key to picking up a language is to increase immersion time with multiple sources and then maintain contact with the language. Ramp it up if you want to learn more or keep it regular to maintain.
The key to remember is that the human brain is terrible at learning material with no relation to anything else. That's why flashcards are one of the worst methods of learning, especially since languages don't always have one to one word mappings. Flashcards are only useful in providing foundation or reinforcement for other methods of learning.

Attend a formal structured course at a local community college to pick up the basics and keep you focused. Peer pressure is a wonderful incentive and having a teacher to direct questions/practice will help with nuances and culture (language is a reflection of the culture that uses it).

Buy a dictionary and find translations of books you've already read. Knowing what happens beforehand will help you pick up basics like grammar and vocabulary very quickly. However, at a certain level, you will notice yourself skipping the rest of the sentence because you picked up what's going on with the first few words. Start reading new books or the newspaper at this point.

Start listening to subtitled video. At first, you'll basically be reading off the text, but as you learn more from other languages, your ear will start to pick out words and phrases and depending on the translation, you might start to wonder who hired the monkey. At that point, drop the subtitles.
Music also works great because your brain will pick up the lyrics by association with the melody. Even if you have no clue as to their meaning, your ear will pick up the pronunciation. As you learn more vocabulary from other sources, you start to parse individual words instead of syllables.

Rosetta Stone is great because it lets you practice speaking, listening, and word association. However, it's limited by the fact it's basically static, so not as good as finding a fluent speaker and trying to hold a random conversation. It's primary benefit is picking up basic conversation very quickly (works well for vacations).
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
Tried to learn French. Was doing good up until I visited a French speaking place last week, and just had brain-freezes when people addressed me in it. I can read, can barely speak and just can't listen. It's best to learn conversationally so try to find a class that makes you do it.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
You really have to immerse yourself in it. Rosetta is ok but unless you speak it constantly every day with new people you're not going to gain fluency as fast.
 

Cheeseplug

Senior member
Dec 16, 2008
430
0
0
Don't try to start off learning Russian completely on your own. Definitely take a formal class.

Start off by learning the alphabet and reading words, sounding them out. That took me a couple of days, but it still confuses me sometimes, especially when going back and forth between Russian and English.

The language is very logical in its agreements, cases and structure but it is still difficult to learn and you should definitely get into a formal class or find a tutor. Playing around with rosetta stone wont do anything.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
sell all your posessions, fly to russia, burn your passport, and go from there. You will learn it pretrty quick. Especially in the gulag.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
I learned Japanese from a community college teacher in high school. Not too tough but she was always on our butts about not trying hard enough. I admit I could have tried harder with her class but that would have meant sacrificing time in other classes (studying and such).

Am in community college right now and taking Spanish.
TOUGH!
Teacher is a pain and again, always reaming our butts for not trying hard enough, even though I know I am putting about 90% of my effort into Spanish and accounting & math get the other 10% of my effort. I wont say she is a bad teacher, but her teaching style is not coinciding my learning style. I have already changed the class to Audit, but I really do wanna learn the language so I will tough it out and take it again next semester.
I dunno if college is the best method overall. Too many teachers wanna push their political agenda, bitch about lazy kids, talk about their families, and other nonsense. They dont wanna teach that much it seems.

As for Rosetta Stone I have heard good things about the learning BUT, BE AWARE!!!!
You are not buying the software, you are paying for the license to use it. If you dont like it, YOU CAN NOT SELL IT OFF!!! The other person wont be able to use it (unless they get a crack from Gamecopyworld or something similar).

For that reason alone I avoid their software entirely. Obviously they dont have that much faith in the quality of their own product.
 

rhino56

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2004
2,325
1
0
Thanks for all the helpful replies, i have ordered rosetta stone and will get started with that, as soon as a class opens up ill be in it.
 

lyssword

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2005
5,630
25
91
Yes, I've learned English, (Russian speaker originally).

Like many people said, best way is immersion. Start off with a class to learn basics, but if you want to get anywhere beyond that, you'll need to constantly use that language. Learning language doesn't necessarily require you to be smart, you just need to be willing to use your new learned words as often as possible so that they will stick with you.
 
Last edited:

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Whatever method you use, the key to picking up a language is to increase immersion time with multiple sources and then maintain contact with the language. Ramp it up if you want to learn more or keep it regular to maintain.
The key to remember is that the human brain is terrible at learning material with no relation to anything else. That's why flashcards are one of the worst methods of learning, especially since languages don't always have one to one word mappings. Flashcards are only useful in providing foundation or reinforcement for other methods of learning.

Attend a formal structured course at a local community college to pick up the basics and keep you focused. Peer pressure is a wonderful incentive and having a teacher to direct questions/practice will help with nuances and culture (language is a reflection of the culture that uses it).

Buy a dictionary and find translations of books you've already read. Knowing what happens beforehand will help you pick up basics like grammar and vocabulary very quickly. However, at a certain level, you will notice yourself skipping the rest of the sentence because you picked up what's going on with the first few words. Start reading new books or the newspaper at this point.

Start listening to subtitled video. At first, you'll basically be reading off the text, but as you learn more from other languages, your ear will start to pick out words and phrases and depending on the translation, you might start to wonder who hired the monkey. At that point, drop the subtitles.
Music also works great because your brain will pick up the lyrics by association with the melody. Even if you have no clue as to their meaning, your ear will pick up the pronunciation. As you learn more vocabulary from other sources, you start to parse individual words instead of syllables.

Rosetta Stone is great because it lets you practice speaking, listening, and word association. However, it's limited by the fact it's basically static, so not as good as finding a fluent speaker and trying to hold a random conversation. It's primary benefit is picking up basic conversation very quickly (works well for vacations).

another thing is it helps cement the basics, but basically learning any language is incomplete without real immersion, which means natural speaking of some sort, somewhere. Doesn't have to be two-way conversation, just some way of getting a constant stream of conversation - often getting confused with a loss of understanding, but that is what helps drive learning by having a feeling of needing to learn what you are confused about. With repetition over time, it just gets driven into your mind.

Rosetta Stone uses a style that basically mimics learning your first language. Picture books with simple sentences, and if I wasn't in a Russian course right now, I'd be using Rosetta Stone. I feel like balancing both would just completely destroy my mind, but I'm starting to think I should start using Rosetta Stone again especially while I'm in the course - another source of Russian to keep the stuff in my mind.

Rosetta Stone I think is especially useful for Russian because it gives you visual references for the grammar basics, which there are many many things that have their own words that English basically compounds into a single word. A lot of clauses and propositions in English just get slammed into the words in Russian so it can be extremely confusing, and it's the prefixes and suffixes that give more meaning to a verb, noun, or adjective, and not the short connector words in-between like in English.
That's what keeps tripping me up, and memorizing/understanding the case endings and grammar specifics, even into 104 (now my second attempt in the course, and worse, after half a year of no Russian). That shit is just brutal to my mind.

Rosetta Stone shows you a picture and a sentence, and you can see, even in the first lessons, how the words start changing, and what short connectors mean.
I feel learning everything with an English equivalent is more harmful in the long run. To my visually oriented memory, it's helpful to have pictures in my head and be able to think in Russian how to describe that picture, instead of what a typical language course seems to call for, of which is learning direct or similar translations and trying to get translate in your head of what you want. At least, that's my case. Some people might be able to think of what they want to say entirely in Russian, even if it's incorrect, just the ability to think of the types of things you want to say in your head in entirely or mostly Russian, makes communication far more easy.

but courses are great because there is a lot of two-way conversation, so the instructor can help determine the problems.
But I have a problem that I still want to remember everything in English, so things I learn in class as corrections or new words that I want to know to make conversation smoother, I completely forget in a day.
It's the immersion that is always lacking, and some people are able to pick up a language without it, but I think I need to be dumped in Russia to really have a chance at getting anywhere near fluent.

but watching movies (with subtitles at first, then I'd say watch it again and again without), listening to music or good music videos that have a relation between the audio and visual elements, random videos... stuff that makes you mind constantly try and figure out what they are saying, especially helpful once you've got a basic grasp and are able to pick out a few words. In movies, you get the chance to possibly see things that connect with the words you don't know, or know the root words but don't understand the implied meaning.
 

Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
1,746
0
86
I forgot to mention: if it's a language with a completely different alphabet like Russian, ignore books that use romanization. For Russian, learn off the Cyrillic (?) alphabet (Mandarin, use 注音http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%9F%B3, Japanese use かな, etc) . The learning curve starts out a lot steeper, but in the long run, you won't end up like me and keep seeing the romanized spelling in your head every time you try to do anything with the language (read, write, speak, listen).
I wouldn't recommend using flashcards to learn a new alphabet for this reason. The brain just builds upon the romanization as a base. Create a table or list (depends on the alphabet) of all the characters on your computer and start memorizing pronunciation in groups. Some alphabets have obvious groupings, but others, I find groups of 3-4 work best. It's basically, the same way we teach kindergarteners. If you have any intention of seriously pursuing a new language with a non-Roman alphabet, avoid romanization when starting out.