Events that happen when a shooter enters a classroom.

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
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Jan 2, 2006
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There's been a lot of threads about why the students didn't rush the shooter at V. Tech when he entered their room, or take some kind of offensive action.

Points to lay out:

1. Students are students. They are not trained to handle or act offensively in situations like this. They will be scared. They will suddenly see, probably all for the first time, their own mortality. For real. Finito. This is it. This is not some random accident that can kill you. It is a shooter actively targeting you with the purpose of killing you.

2. In the vast majority of college classrooms, there is no place to maneuver with the cramped seating.

3. The shooter is blocking the only exit point. Also, the shooter has excellent visibility and field of fire of the entire room from this spot, as well as a very easy escape route (simply walk back out the door), at which point the door becomes a natural bottleneck TO HIS ADVANTAGE when any student tries to escape out of the room via the door.

What would probably happen if a shooter came into a classroom:

1. Students are either not expecting the shooting or in shock at hearing previous gunshots outside of the classroom.

2. Shooter storms into the room and IMMEDIATELY guns down the professor and the kids near the door. Students see blood spray everywhere, horrific exit wounds, and their fellow classmates and friends in their last throes of life. The room also magnifies the intense sounds of the gunshots.

3. Many students probably freeze for a few seconds in absolute shock at #2. Some will hide under desks that provide very little cover or hiding ability. These people are only postponing being gunned down.

4. Others who are not frozen have the natural reaction to flee... to the back of the room, perhaps to the corner furthest away from the shooter.

a. Fleeing to the back of the room means there is no place to flee to.

b. This act of movement in a room cramped with desks sprawled all over the place or in narrow columns or rows almost guarantees anyone trying to rush the shooter will be blocked by people trying to get as far away from the shooter as possible.

c. People in the back will be bunched together into a sea of human beings that the shooter can now target with much more ease (think Omaha Beach). Even if you rush now you're too jammed and unorganized to rush *weaponless* through an obstacle course of desks, chairs, bodies, and people pushing in the opposite direction of the rush.

College Classrooms:

Very little room for people in the middle to move. People can only effectively move horizontally. Seats and desks are bolted into the ground.

Column Orientation. This one is actually spacious.

Row Orientation. Only way to escape is through the center floorspace.

In this day and age many colleges are trying to cram more students into their rooms as more and more people start going to college and colleges try to capitalize on this increased demand by offering more seats in classrooms - but not more space. This creates little space for people to easily get to their seat, move around, or exit the classroom. I'm sure many of you have had to wait or even stand in line to get out of class, especially in big auditorium-style classrooms as people have to slowly shuffle horizontally across the rows to get to the steps leading down to the exit.

Many of the people in the seats closest to the shooter will get gunned down quickly.
People in the middle will have their mobility hampered by the design of the room and by people trying to run to the back.
People in the back won't have a chance to move hardly anywhere. If you're in the back trying to get to the front, the shooter will have more than enough time to shoot you.

Bah, I need to go to class
rose.gif
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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same deal as with 9/11, etc. Even if one person does decide to rush, chances are even if he gets to them and manages a partial subduing they will get no further aid from anyone else.

People do not even use their cell phones to report things for fear of involvement; yet alone being there part of it.
 

Queasy

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Aug 24, 2001
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FWIW - This is a NY Times slideshow showing the layout of the classrooms. They are just regular individual desks like you'd see in a high school. Not the fancy modern lecture halls.
 

gerwen

Senior member
Nov 24, 2006
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Agree with OP.

You hear gunshots, moments later, someone bursts into your room and opens fire. Even if you and a few others retain a cool enough head to rush him, he's gonna put holes in a few of you, then back out of the room and put holes in the rest. There's no way to overcome a guy who probably always had a loaded weapon, and some distance and mobility. It's a lose-lose situation.

 
Oct 4, 2004
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The only way there (strong emphasis on) 'might' have been a chance is after the first shot went off, instead of hitting the deck, all the kids SIMULTANEOUSLY decide to rush him and knock him down. Chances of that happening are practically NIL.

The moment a gun goes off - whether it's a mall, club or classroom - people are going to run AWAY from the gun or hit the floor. Everyone is thinking, "Well, I don't want to be the FIRST guy to rush him because he's definitely going to take down at least 4 or 5 people before he gets knocked down. Do I want to sacrifice myself by being the initiator or do I just hit the floor and hope he doesn't get me?"

Okay, AFTER I typed that, I checked Queasy's link and I don't think the kids had any chance. :(
 

daniel1113

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Jun 6, 2003
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Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Okay, AFTER I typed that, I checked Queasy's link and I don't think the kids had any chance. :(

Definitely... there was nowhere to go and nothing to hide behind in those rooms. The only thing that seemed to work was to block the door and remain out of the bullet path if the shooter tried shooting through the door. Of course, you would have to be in one of the later rooms and have enough time to block the door, and that is what appears to have happened.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
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Thanks OP, there has been a lot of stupidity lately on these forums with people placing blame on the victims for not fighting back. Some idiots have even been boasting about how they would've played the hero. It is unbelievable, and although myself and a few others tried to explain why heroics weren't possible, you did so in much more detail and maybe these idiots will apologize or at least keep quiet from now on.
 

gerwen

Senior member
Nov 24, 2006
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Originally posted by: Farang
<snip> maybe these idiots will apologize or at least keep quiet from now on.

Hope you're right, but believe you're wrong.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
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When I play paintball, half the people playing are scared to rush, for F's sake.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
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Originally posted by: Queasy
FWIW - This is a NY Times slideshow showing the layout of the classrooms. They are just regular individual desks like you'd see in a high school. Not the fancy modern lecture halls.

Yeah. The modern lecture halls would be FAR worse. Heck, even getting into and out of one of those on a normal day is hard.

And yeah, even in Counterstrike my teammates almost never rush. I real life? Not a chance.

I definitely agree with theprodigalrebel in that the only chance for survival would be a teamed rush, with almost a 100% chance of some fatalities in the process :(
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Guess you could do a Weekend at Bernie's thing and hold a body up while you approached

I'd like to see you rush someone holding up even 140 lbs of dead weight.
 

fuzzybabybunny

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Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Guess you could do a Weekend at Bernie's thing and hold the body of your dead classmate/friend up while you approached

I'd like to see you rush someone holding up even 140 lbs of dead weight.